Which would be the 5 most powerful militaries in the world?

[Zombie]

Originally posted by: maddogchen

Originally posted by: PingSpike
China hasn't invaded taiwan because they'd have to deal with the USA in doing so. China is an emerging super power and should not be fvcked with I say.

Or you could say lets beat down on China now while we still can so that they will never rise to threaten us in any way

haha

 

[littlegoku]

Originally posted by: K1052

As for the navy, you do realize that China has the worst subs in the world right?

Fixed.

I am not bsing.

 

[LongCoolMother]

Originally posted by: maddogchen

Originally posted by: PingSpike
China hasn't invaded taiwan because they'd have to deal with the USA in doing so. China is an emerging super power and should not be fvcked with I say.

Or you could say lets beat down on China now while we still can so that they will never rise to threaten us in any way

that would go against everything the US has ever stood for. how unfortunate.

 

[grrl]

Originally posted by: Zombie
North Korea won't win without chinese support. It is nothing more than a Chinese vessel state.

That would be 'vassal' state. And I don't know if you could ever argue that was the case b/w North Korea and China.

I'd say:

US
China
Russia
UK
NK

rated by power and by the country's ability to reak havoc (i.e. militaries that need to be watched). NK could decimate Seoul in 30 minutes with all the artillery and rockets they have lined up along the DMZ. Plus the fact that all NK men spend 7 years in the military.

I still don't understand how Japan is on so many lists.

 

[LongCoolMother]

Originally posted by: grrl

Originally posted by: Zombie
North Korea won't win without chinese support. It is nothing more than a Chinese vessel state.

That would be 'vassal' state. And I don't know if you could ever argue that was the case b/w North Korea and China.

I'd say:

US
China
Russia
UK
NK

rated by power and by the country's ability to reak havoc (i.e. militaries that need to be watched). NK could decimate Seoul in 30 minutes with all the artillery and rockets they have lined up along the DMZ. Plus the fact that all NK men spend 7 years in the military.

I still don't understand how Japan is on so many lists.

i have a question. ive heard the chinese are slowly backing away from their "friendship" with NK. they are slowly losing favor of them. so is this true?

 

[grrl]

China is getting a bit annoyed with NK. They are no longer propping up their dead economy and would like them to stop making trouble while China is trying to build its own economy. However, they don't want them to collapse because of the flood of refugees that would cause plus they don't like the prospect of a democratic, united Korea right next door. So, there is little they can do to really change matters. NK is essentially adrift with no real allies. Kind of like Cuba.

 

[bernse]

Originally posted by: littlegoku

Originally posted by: K1052

As for the navy, you do realize that China has the worst subs in the world right?

Fixed.

I am not bsing.

Too bad.

Lets see a couple unbiased cites for these Chinese Uber-subs please.

 

[przero]

1. The U.S. military
2. -5. Any 4 of the "Ohio" class of nuclear submarines in the U.S. fleet

 

[LongCoolMother]

Originally posted by: bernse

Originally posted by: littlegoku

Originally posted by: K1052

As for the navy, you do realize that China has the worst subs in the world right?

Fixed.

I am not bsing.

Too bad.

Lets see a couple unbiased cites for these Chinese Uber-subs please.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/03/16/china.navy/

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/03/16/china.navy/

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/EK25Ad01.html

none contradict the notion that china has a defecient navy. but it shows that they arent a joke either.

by the way. i found the site i was looking for before. a huge array of very interesting information of the militaries around the world. http://www.fas.org/man/index.html

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: grrl

Originally posted by: Zombie
North Korea won't win without chinese support. It is nothing more than a Chinese vessel state.

That would be 'vassal' state. And I don't know if you could ever argue that was the case b/w North Korea and China.

I'd say:

US
China
Russia
UK
NK

rated by power and by the country's ability to reak havoc (i.e. militaries that need to be watched). NK could decimate Seoul in 30 minutes with all the artillery and rockets they have lined up along the DMZ. Plus the fact that all NK men spend 7 years in the military.

I still don't understand how Japan is on so many lists.

You need more then a bunch of rusting artillery to be a top 5 millitary power. Japan is one people list because they speend more money then most other countries and have a reality modren millitary.

 

[bernse]

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother

Originally posted by: bernse

Originally posted by: littlegoku

Originally posted by: K1052

As for the navy, you do realize that China has the worst subs in the world right?

Fixed.

I am not bsing.

Too bad.

Lets see a couple unbiased cites for these Chinese Uber-subs please.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/03/16/china.navy/

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/03/16/china.navy/

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/EK25Ad01.html

none contradict the notion that china has a defecient navy. but it shows that they arent a joke either.

by the way. i found the site i was looking for before. a huge array of very interesting information of the militaries around the world. http://www.fas.org/man/index.html

None of those links says anything about how good their Subs are! I am not about to dig the the FAS site ... but it is a great site.

Littlegoku, please post a couple of cites that back up the claim of how Chinese Subs are the BEST IN THE WORLD.

*edit* Thanks for fixing your links.

 

[Zombie]

Originally posted by: bernse

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother

Originally posted by: bernse

Originally posted by: littlegoku

Originally posted by: K1052

As for the navy, you do realize that China has the worst subs in the world right?

Fixed.

I am not bsing.

Too bad.

Lets see a couple unbiased cites for these Chinese Uber-subs please.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/03/16/china.navy/

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/03/16/china.navy/

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/EK25Ad01.html

none contradict the notion that china has a defecient navy. but it shows that they arent a joke either.

by the way. i found the site i was looking for before. a huge array of very interesting information of the militaries around the world. http://www.fas.org/man/index.html

None of those links says anything about how good their Subs are! I am not about to dig the the FAS site ... but it is a great site.

Littlegoku, please post a couple of cites that back up the claim of how Chinese Subs are the BEST IN THE WORLD.

*edit* Thanks for fixing your links.

Chinese have old Russian Kilo's that dozen other countires operate as well. Those are good diesel subs but that's about it. Chinese Navy is not a blue water navy and thus only good within their maritime boundary.

 

[grrl]

Originally posted by: Zombie

Chinese have old Russian Kilo's that dozen other countires operate as well. Those are good diesel subs but that's about it. Chinese Navy is not a blue water navy and thus only good within their maritime boundary.

China is trying to create a blue water navy and now has the necessary (stolen) technology to make subs as quiet if not quieter than the US's. That's one reason the US has so many overflights near Tainan Island, so they can try to keep track of the subs as the enter and leave. Apparently China's best subs are quite hard to detect in the more open seas.

 

[OatMan]

This site has some good info on the subject
http://www.strategypage.com/fyeo/howtomakewar/databases/armies/e.asp

Its rankings are by region, and its hard to compare, for example I don't understand exactly how Russia is ahead of the UK, but what ever...
This is for total military power (air,land,deployment,population,quality,c&c,leadership,trainig,Nukes and specials,etc.)other than naval power which is ranked seperately and which I couldn't find. My guess accoring to this site is. It might look different after accounting for Navy, but probably not that much (nukes kinda rule)

1. USA - probably almost as powerful as the rest of the world combined (not far off, scary)
2. China
3. Israel - (totally surprised me)
4. Russia
5. UK
6. India
7. Germany

BTW S.Korea is ahead of N.Korea.

 

[OatMan]

Oops I left out Todd Bertuzzi sorry for the oversite.

PS - to the previouse discussion of France vs. Isreal. It is no contest. Istreal would not even break a sweat in utterly crushing frances military. Isreal is beleived to have fewer nukes only to the US and UK and Russia. Its pilots are both better armed and better trained. Its rapid mobilization capabilities are second only to the UK(arguable) and USA. Isreali tankers still train US tankers in desert warfare, though one could argue that Germany and switserland are as competant. France builds fine airplanes, but they are not as good as the ones the US "sells" to Israel, which Israel is beleived to significantly modify to fit their unique needs (mostly software avionics and loads) and their certainly not flown by pilots of as good quality. I really have to stop posting after bed time, this is so porly written it even pisses me off

g'night.

 

[busmaster11]

Isreal should be number one because Isreal's = Isreal's + the US's...

 

[dpm]

Israel does have a very formidable military, but a military designed solely for local and theatre defense - not for projecting power. So if France was to take the fight to Israel, it would lose, but Israel's military just isn't set up to take the fight to France.

Not to knock Israel's military, though. Its designed for a purpose, and its probably the best in the world at that.

 

[OatMan]

Can't argue with that. We're talking about some fairly absurd hypotheticals here. I mean how do you directly compare two completely isolated nations? And previouse points about economical and political influence are factor's in any military engagement. Lets face it, all military action is the result of a failed diplomantic action, so there is no such thing as an isolated military engagement except in theory.

That was why I think that site I posted shows relative rankings based on regions. There isn't much point comparing Uraguay's military capability to Turkmanistan.

Of course the few major powers are exceptions to this. Thats probably UK, US, China and Russia. I think ultimately any nation with a pile of nukes is probably pretty ok.

I was thinking in terms of relative qualitative capability, or perhaps a chess like scenario where all your goodies are lined up over there, and all mine are lined up over here. OK, ready.... Set..... GO!

It just don't work that way.

But hell, its fun to discuss. Kinda like a Ruth versus Bonds, or A-Rod versus H.Wagner argument. Its impossible to diffinitively compare erras.

Look at it another way. Everyone's intell comes from satalites dominated and owned mostly by the US. How many nations have their own GPS satalites? what like 5?

 

[pcmodem]

Well, according to Bill & Opus & the rest of the Bloom County...

Be very afraid of the Mary Kay Commandos!



Spock, where's the crew?
-PCM

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: brigden
1. United States of America

The US military is undoubtedly the most useful military institution. It is expansive, dominant, precise, powerful, and capable of projecting power globally, on multiple fronts. It is incredibly effective at compelling foreign polities to be more friendly and useful to the United States, and protects the American economy through global stability, and stability within key extraterritorial regions. Not only that, but it allows America to vanquish its adversaries without major casualties, enabling military intervention in extraterritorial, "detached," conflicts (Republicanism and Democracy are intrinsically opposed to the use of military force). Essentially, America can eliminate whoever it wants to, wherever it wants to, and without perilous attrition. The United States military is an institution that is instrumental in executing American interests.

2. Israel

The Israeli military is also a very beneficial institution. In fact, it is the single most beneficial Israeli institution, and the one organization that enables Israel to exist. It has proven itself, through multiple wars against superior opponents, to be among the most effective and efficient militaries. Its success and capabilities have resulted in formal recognition of Israel throughout the Arab world, and deter Arab aggression and invasion. Israel's military continues to provide an extensive array of services that (both actively and passively) it uses to advance its national interests - it's military is much more effective in this regard than any other country (except, perhaps, for America).

3. China

Although I list China here, it is more of a future tool than a current one. However, due to its ongoing reformation, and the extremely pragmatic goals it aims to achieve, it will probably become one of the most effective guardians of any nation's strategic interests. China is aiming to amass enough force by Taiwan to put serious pressure on the island, and in the future may have some success in utilizing it to benefit China. China has also recognized its future threats and competitors, and is shaping its military to counteract them. More specifically, it recognizes that the US will be a serious competitor, and potential adversary, in the future. In response, it is building an arsenal that includes many systems tailored towards penetrating American weak spots. China is building and reforming its military so that, in the near future, it will be an extremely effective tool for use in advancing the PRC's national interests.

4. Japan

The JSDF is the dark horse of the international military stage. It does not draw attention to itself, and yet is one of the most well equipped and well funded armed institutions in the world. It has a military outfitted with proven equipment that has been upgraded to be superior. It is well trained, and is extremely proficient at territorial defense. Existing in a region that is only tentatively stable (with China, America, and radical Islamism all fighting for supremacy, and the last vestige of militarist communism making ever bellicose threats) demands a strong military, which Japan has. But not only is Japan virtually impregnable (worthy alone to be on the list), but it has also begun to show a willingness to use its forces abroad, and become proactive on a global scale. This will surely translate into more martial use in promoting its national interests.

5. Iran

Iran has an often ignored defense establishment, so one may wonder why it deserves such major mention. Iran is a major sponsor of terrorism against the US, an "official" enemy of the US, and is engaged in war against America. It subverts American interests at every junction, and is one of the biggest impediments to the realization of American domestic and foreign security. Logically, it follows, America should eliminate Iran. However, Iran has a very impressive military for defending itself (and it's a very hard target to hit). Iran's military strength protects it from American invasion and heavy military retaliation. It's military, like Israel's, realizes the nation's ultimate moral purpose: advancing the interests of its citizens. However, unlike Israel's, it is not as proactive. Ergo, it is number five, and the IDF is number two. Regardless, Iran's military is one of the finest at advancing its national interests.

6. Britain

Britain has a well balanced, well funded, powerful military. It is capable of deploying force and projecting power to advance London's interests, and is more powerful than any force it will likely face. That said, it is certainly not the world's powerful. So why put it at number six? For political reasons. Because London is willing to employ the British military to advance its strategic interests, it makes the military that much more useful. The royal armed forces can be and are employed in defense of Britain, in offense against Britain's enemies, and to advance its national interests.

7. Australia

See above.

8. Singapore

Singapore is a small nation with a small military, true. However, they take their defense very seriously. See the comments about Japan to understand the gravity of their situation. Therefore, since they take defense so seriously, their military is very effective in promoting their national interests. It is efficient, well trained, and very capable of defending Singapore. This combination of efficiency and employment give it such a high spot - rightly or wrongly, Singapore believes that they need a (relatively) powerful military to defend their city-state, and it is extremely effective at doing so.

9. Pakistan

Pakistan has a powerful military, which they use (along with the ISI) to effectively control the region. Pakistan's military has been employed to good effect to advance its national interests, and thus earns a high spot.

10. Republic of Korea

The RoK has a strong military that is built around their most compelling national interest - to defeat a potential DPRK attack. Because the military satisfies this condition fairly well, they earn a spot on this list. However, due to political sentiments (that have begun to appear) that are apprehensive and opposed to using the military as a tool of advancing their national interests, South Korea's military is relegated to tenth.

nice!

you're an idiot if you think that is nice. as is megaworks for getting the stupidest post of the thread award. His 4-10 ranks are ridiculous.

 

[phatj]

Originally posted by: damiano

Originally posted by: Kev
It actually goes more like this:

1. US
2. China
3. India
4. North Korea
5. UK
6. Everyone else in a tie except France
7. My 12 year old sister's soccer team
8. Me with a slingshot and a baseball bat
9. My dog
10. France

you are a retard

A funny retard

 

[crisp82]

Originally posted by: DuffmanOhYeah

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: bernse

Originally posted by: bsmithy
the UK SAS train the US Navy SEALS

says a lot

Bull. Navy SEALS train SEALS. There may be instructors from other forces (foreign or other branch) for some specialized training, but thats it. Everybody does that.

You're grossly overgeneralizing.

Well, every country on the planet (except the US of course) recognizes that the SAS is overall better at what they do than the SEALS are at what they do. OWNED!!!

And the Spetznaz would whoop the SAS. Whats your point?

SBS is better then the Spetnaz. This could go on all day.

 

[maddogchen]

Whats SBS? special...boat...service?

 

[dpm]

Originally posted by: maddogchen
Whats SBS? special...boat...service?

Yeah. But in reality, all these elite troops inter-train to the point that they are pretty much equally good. US, UK, German etc special forces are all damn good at what they do.