Which will be here first, SB or Llano?

[Obsoleet]

I need a new laptop asap and want one that runs cool, but is cheap and plays games if I want (TF2, League of Legends type stuff).

I'd prefer Llano as it's DX11, but SB would be fine too. I care about DX11 hardware support because I was never a guy who said "yeah, older standard is fine" when there's a newer standard available from another manufacturer.

 

[cbn]

It sounds like SB will get here first.

After it arrives on desktop you'll have to wait a while before it gets implemented into laptop designs? (Does anyone know how long this will take).

 

[Rifter]

SB

 

[nenforcer]

I think most Sandy Bridge designs are already done or probably close to being done.

OEM's are just waiting for the go ahead to sell after Christmas in Q1 from Intel.

 

[Obsoleet]

That's great news that it's so close.. and that laptops are already prepared for market. I think both llano and SB look great. Personally, they have enough power for a laptop IMO.. and it's all the previous designs that were silly.. either too powerful/hot or too weak/useless.

It's a shame that the 1st gen SB I'll be buying will be probably a weak GPU.. but it's also a shame that Llano isn't Bulldozer based. I'd feel bad not waiting for Llano if it were.

 

[Obsoleet]

Does anyone have a good link on SB GPU performance? I'm going to be looking for a 720P laptop on a 14" screen preferably.

 

[cbn]

Does anyone have a good link on SB GPU performance? I'm going to be looking for a 720P laptop on a 14" screen preferably.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3871/the-sandy-bridge-preview-three-wins-in-a-row/7

 

[Obsoleet]

That's the mobile performance?? Equal to a 5450 Radeon is very impressive. Even if it's the top end solution. Should be good enough for me, and probably destroy any other laptop I've ever owned. I really don't want a fireball of a laptop after gaming for 20 minutes like all the 'fast enough' ones I've tried.

 

[Idontcare]

I need a new laptop asap and want one that runs cool, but is cheap and plays games if I want (TF2, League of Legends type stuff).

I'd prefer Llano as it's DX11, but SB would be fine too. I care about DX11 hardware support because I was never a guy who said "yeah, older standard is fine" when there's a newer standard available from another manufacturer.

SB by about 6 months, maybe more.

 

[Martimus]

Since the GF 32nm process was pushed back, SB will most definitely be released first. This delay is also probably the reason that AMD has recently announced a higher clocked Bobcat based chip called Zacate, since their original desktop Fusion processor has been delayed by so much.

 

[StrangerGuy]

For 2011, it makes more sense for AMD to scale up the far more promising Bobcat (e.g ~3GHz quad, 400 SP APU? Heck yeah!) and concentrate on Bulldozer APU and just simply scrap Llano.

 

[Obsoleet]

I like both AMD and Intel. Spent most of my life using 286s, 386s, probably my favorite computer a 486DX2/33 and a Pentium. But the first computer I built from ground up was an socket A Athlon 700.
AMD needs to get product out the door to hope to compete... this is a great product (Fusion) and Intel is really stealing thunder doing virtually the same thing before they do. Although I have a lot more faith in AMD's implementation.

 

[LoneNinja]

SB is Q1, Llano got pushed back to Q3. AMD is really going to be hurting when it's Phenom II against SB since even Bulldozer is Q2 at the earliest as that's when AM3+ is scheduled to launch.

 

[busydude]

SB is Q1, Llano got pushed back to Q3.

Got any link for that? Last time I heard, its Summer of 2011 for Llano.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Although I have a lot more faith in AMD's implementation.

Sandy Bridge CPU will be no doubt faster than the K10 based chip in Llano, but Llano has a bigger GPU. The question is how they are integrating the two together.

IMO AMD is being more brute force with the GPU as the die sizes of the two chips won't be that far off. Absolute execution power and flops are likely higher for Llano, but there's still very little details on the Sandy Bridge GPU so it could be closer in actual performance.

In the end Llano could still be faster in graphics but how much faster than Sandy Bridge's GPU is it? EU throughput has only increased by 2x going from G965 to Core ix graphics but 3D performance went up 3-4x.

 

[Vesku]

Seems like SB top end integrated will be about 5450 level while Llano will be another tier up from that, judging by Anand's SB sneakpeak and Llano's number of SPs and roughly stated 400-500 gflops. But Llano coming out 3-6 months later will allow for non-terrible Intel graphics to fill out the mainstream notebook market without too much competition, not good on the sales front for AMD. Wonder if AMD will offer some really low cost dedicated radeon mobile chips to offset?

 

[Martimus]

Seems like SB top end integrated will be about 5450 level while Llano will be another tier up from that, judging by Anand's SB sneakpeak and Llano's number of SPs and roughly stated 400-500 gflops. But Llano coming out 3-6 months later will allow for non-terrible Intel graphics to fill out the mainstream notebook market without too much competition, not good on the sales front for AMD. Wonder if AMD will offer some really low cost dedicated radeon mobile chips to offset?

I am pretty sure this is the market AMD is trying to put Zacate into. I doubt that Zacate would have even seen the light of day if Llano was on time, but it looks like they are trying to speed up their Atom competitor to compete with the early SB chips.

I wonder if this means that the Bobcat architecture is much better than expected. If they are able to ramp up clock speeds to compete with modern processors on such a stripped down design, it may be a good basis for future designs for AMD (similar to how C2D evolved).

 

[Idontcare]

Got any link for that? Last time I heard, its Summer of 2011 for Llano.

dude, er I mean busydude, summer is Q3...Jul/Aug/Sep

And when was the last time you can remember when AMD has ever said 1H or Q3 and it was the first part of that range? It's always the back-end of the range. Q3 means mid-september. 1H means Jun. Its the way.

 

[IntelUser2000]

I think there's a big confusion between "wide availability" and "introduction" for Llano. Back when AMD claimed Q1 release for Llano I was thinking May, I am still sticking to that.

 

[busydude]

And when was the last time you can remember when AMD has ever said 1H or Q3 and it was the first part of that range? It's always the back-end of the range. Q3 means mid-september. 1H means Jun. Its the way.

Oops.. you are right, had a brain fart moment right there.

Although I am in the US right now, I cannot make my mind up. Summer is Apr/May/June in India.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Deleted.

 

[Medikit]

Honestly I am more excited about Zacate than anything else at this point.

 

[Obsoleet]

So basically, SB might be as good or better than Llano.

It's the Bulldozer APU (Zacate?) that will probably be a real differentiation from SB, but even later than Llano.

 

[xd_1771]

That's the mobile performance?? Equal to a 5450 Radeon is very impressive. Even if it's the top end solution. Should be good enough for me, and probably destroy any other laptop I've ever owned. I really don't want a fireball of a laptop after gaming for 20 minutes like all the 'fast enough' ones I've tried.

The GPU on the Llano will be more equal to a 5570 in performance.
I also think that Llano is a more notebook-focused chip than a desktop-focused one. By that, I mean that the notebook parts will either come at the same time as or before the desktop parts.

 

[Martimus]

So basically, SB might be as good or better than Llano.

It's the Bulldozer APU (Zacate?) that will probably be a real differentiation from SB, but even later than Llano.

Not quite. The Bobcat fusion processors will be released before Llano (Stars based Fusion processor). Bobcat should be slower than current Athlon processors, but are made to be cheap and consume low power. (The Ontario die is smaller than the Atom die on the 'same' process). Zacate is a scalled up verson of Ontario, and is probably only being released becase Llano is so late, and because Bobcat scales much better than AMD expected (allowing them to release the Zacate at all).

In fact, it is even possible that we will see Zacate before we see Sandybridge, although the two will likely be released around the same time.

There is no known planned Bulldozer APU, only a desktop CPU (Zambezi) and a server based (the codename escapes me at the moment). However, I would expect a Bulldozer based APU within the next 2-3 years.