Discussion Which was worse, the riots in July or the Riot in January?

[JTsyo]

For July to be on par, it would be the Supreme Court ruling on police brutality and BLM protestors invade the SC looking to force them to rule in their favor. What would we be seeing on right-wing media if that happened?

 

[Torn Mind]

I voted January. Entitled white people storming the capitol and threatening entire congress. The impact of these actions far outweighs protesting police abuse.

The impact is pure optics. But it was a miserable failure with no harm to the state. The reaction can be the equivalent of the cytokine storm from COVID, however.

Now, the ability to protest will be curbed with relative ease in the future since there is very little pressure to treat "state attackers" with any mercy. The fat cats got threatened and thus most of the people living their cushy political life will not let outsiders take that away.

Law and policy, however, are full of "general principles and policies", therefore, the most devastating consequence would be that any and all future protests can be met with greater vigor or be stopped by procedural denials.

 

[MrSquished]

Establishing autonomous zones and attacking federal symbols of democracy (court houses) is still insurrection, and both similarly led to loss of life.

Spray painting and throwing glass bottles at a shut down federal courthouse is not the same as invading an active government facility with intent to harm/lynch/kidnap some of the most important sitting members of government (they got real close too, people were just barely evacuated in time). Not just any part of government, but one of the three main branches of the federal, which would thus then throw the entire country into chaos. Also nobody was killed at a federal courthouse being spray painted.

You try real hard at the both sidesing, it's just not a good look. The fact that people can rationalize this stuff is bonkers.

 

[BudAshes]

Spray painting and throwing glass bottles at a shut down federal courthouse is not the same as invading an active government facility with intent to harm/lynch/kidnap some of the most important sitting members of government (they got real close too, people were just barely evacuated in time). Not just any part of government, but one of the three main branches of the federal, which would thus then throw the entire country into chaos. Also nobody was killed at a federal courthouse being spray painted.

You try real hard at the both sidesing, it's just not a good look. The fact that people can rationalize this stuff is bonkers.

Go back to P&N you troglodytes. BEGONE.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Spray painting and throwing glass bottles at a shut down federal courthouse is not the same as invading an active government facility with intent to harm/lynch/kidnap some of the most important sitting members of government (they got real close too, people were just barely evacuated in time). Not just any part of government, but one of the three main branches of the federal, which would thus then throw the entire country into chaos. Also nobody was killed at a federal courthouse being spray painted.

You try real hard at the both sidesing, it's just not a good look. The fact that people can rationalize this stuff is bonkers.

If it was mere vandalism, we wouldn’t be having this discussion...vandalism usually doesn’t result in loss of life.

 

[manly]

I can not believe that this is a near 50/50 split.

Well, it correlates pretty well with the recent presidential election's national vote tally...

 

[ondma]

July led to January. Neither is ok.
[/QUOTE]
No, just NO.
Trumps inflammatory rhetoric and repeated outright lies about the legitimacy of the election, (as well as 4 years of incessantly attacking our democratic institutions), led to the insurrection at the Capitol.

 

[Homerboy]

Well, it correlates pretty well with the recent presidential election's national vote tally...

That is true. But I also can't believe that was nearly 50/50 too

 

[Homerboy]

Pretty sure 5 people (regardless of pollical beliefs) losing their lives should always be measured worse than people losing a business.

 

[Grey_Beard]

Pretty sure 5 people (regardless of pollical beliefs) losing their lives should always be measured worse than people losing a business.

But, but, but REASONS!

 

[manly]

Pretty sure 5 people (regardless of pollical beliefs) losing their lives should always be measured worse than people losing a business.

This really isn't the best way to look at it though. One police officer died defending our Constitution.
The other 4 were essentially domestic terrorists. I wouldn't mourn or count those losses even if they were in the low teens IF the police were lawfully executing their duties. I'm not saying I want blood or carnage, but those 4 are not victims whatsoever.

According to Wikipedia, the "George Floyd protests" resulted in at least 19 deaths. I didn't research to see why they died.

As suggested previously, what this poll really asks is your political self-affiliation. The comparison of events itself is quite apples to oranges.

 

[Homerboy]

This really isn't the best way to look at it though. One police officer died defending our Constitution.
The other 4 were essentially domestic terrorists. I wouldn't mourn or count those losses even if they were in the low teens IF the police were lawfully executing their duties. I'm not saying I want blood or carnage, but those 4 are not victims whatsoever.

According to Wikipedia, the "George Floyd protests" resulted in at least 19 deaths. I didn't research to see why they died.

As suggested previously, what this poll really asks is your political self-affiliation. The comparison of events itself is quite apples to oranges.

Good points.
I will also point out that one set of riots is people protesting social injustice and discrimination towards minorities by the police. The other riot was because people believed conspiracy theories. But, I also get where that can all be subjective ("alternative facts" and all that...) I'm truly amazed this has stated in OT for as long as it has.

 

[MrSquished]

If it was mere vandalism, we wouldn’t be having this discussion...vandalism usually doesn’t result in loss of life.

You need to provide proof of folks filled with conspiracy theories and lies by Democratic politicians and egged on by Democratic surrogates (like Trump's Flynn, Giuliani, Stone and others) that then went out and killed people.

I will wait. Links to murders egged on by Democrats creating a frenzy shouldn't be hard to find, especially those during events where they were seeking to paralyze the Federal government from functioning save for Trump loyalists staying in charge.

 

[manly]

You need to provide proof of folks filled with conspiracy theories and lies by Democratic politicians and egged on by Democratic surrogates (like Trump's Flynn, Giuliani, Stone and others) that then went out and killed people.

I will wait. Links to murders egged on by Democrats creating a frenzy shouldn't be hard to find, especially those during events where they were seeking to paralyze the Federal government from functioning save for Trump loyalists staying in charge.

AOC, the Squad, Benghazi. Buttery emails! /s

 

[MrSquished]

This really isn't the best way to look at it though. One police officer died defending our Constitution.
The other 4 were essentially domestic terrorists. I wouldn't mourn or count those losses even if they were in the low teens IF the police were lawfully executing their duties. I'm not saying I want blood or carnage, but those 4 are not victims whatsoever.

According to Wikipedia, the "George Floyd protests" resulted in at least 19 deaths. I didn't research to see why they died.

As suggested previously, what this poll really asks is your political self-affiliation. The comparison of events itself is quite apples to oranges.

if you go to the citation that supports the 19 deaths statement on Forbes, it mentions a murder where a guy's car was stolen. A murder of a guy guarding a pawn shop that got looted.A FedEx van running over someone, another person running over a protestor. So basically some of the victims were protestors, some were by looters/opportunists, and some were just the victims of crime that happened during or near protests.

 

[Starbuck1975]

You need to provide proof of folks filled with conspiracy theories and lies by Democratic politicians and egged on by Democratic surrogates (like Trump's Flynn, Giuliani, Stone and others) that then went out and killed people.

I will wait. Links to murders egged on by Democrats creating a frenzy shouldn't be hard to find, especially those during events where they were seeking to paralyze the Federal government from functioning save for Trump loyalists staying in charge.

The conditions you’ve set are not an accurate way of framing the conversation or the evolution of events over the last year. You are correct, no Democrat rabble roused anyone to engage in violence, that is why I voted January as far worse than July. However, the abdication of authority over the summer in the face of vandalism, looting, assault and insurrection did lead to loss of life, and the local leaders who failed to assert their authority enabled the escalation, David Dorn’s death being a notable example.

 

[Grey_Beard]

This really isn't the best way to look at it though. One police officer died defending our Constitution.
The other 4 were essentially domestic terrorists. I wouldn't mourn or count those losses even if they were in the low teens IF the police were lawfully executing their duties. I'm not saying I want blood or carnage, but those 4 are not victims whatsoever.

According to Wikipedia, the "George Floyd protests" resulted in at least 19 deaths. I didn't research to see why they died.

As suggested previously, what this poll really asks is your political self-affiliation. The comparison of events itself is quite apples to oranges.

Here is a list of 26 people who died around the George Floyd protests. This has details on all of the circumstances and even if someone was arrested. Even in this list with the details it is unsure if they are all related to the protests. I suspect they are a much smaller number than the 19, but it is up for determination, although it might be more than the five that died in the few hours during the insurrection. I would guess that since this threat continues, we should hold out that determination until the next eight days play out.

Say Their Names: 26 People Killed in the George Floyd Riots

pjmedia.com

 

[Grey_Beard]

The conditions you’ve set are not an accurate way of framing the conversation or the evolution of events over the last year. You are correct, no Democrat rabble roused anyone to engage in violence, that is why I voted January as far worse than July. However, the abdication of authority over the summer in the face of vandalism, looting, assault and insurrection did lead to loss of life, and the local leaders who failed to assert their authority enabled the escalation, David Dorn’s death being a notable example.

Are you forgetting about Kyle Rittenhouse and his murder of two in Kenosha, Joseph Rosenbaum and Anthony Huber?

 

[Homerboy]

Are you forgetting about Kyle Rittenhouse and his murder of two in Kenosha, Joseph Rosenbaum and Anthony Huber?

IT WAS SELF DEFENSE /s

 

[MrSquished]

Are you forgetting about Kyle Rittenhouse and his murder of two in Kenosha, Joseph Rosenbaum and Anthony Huber?

Boogaloo Boys assassinated two cops in California as well.

 

[JM Aggie08]

If you can't see the clear difference between riots to bring attention to our country's entire history steeped in racial inequality and injustice, compared to a bunch of angry rednecks that are butthurt about the results of a 100% fair and secure election, fully instigated by the sitting president and his shameless cronies, then it's not even worth starting a conversation with you.

One was a protest focused on systematic social injustice. The other was a blatant attack on our democracy.

 

[MrSquished]

The conditions you’ve set are not an accurate way of framing the conversation or the evolution of events over the last year. You are correct, no Democrat rabble roused anyone to engage in violence, that is why I voted January as far worse than July. However, the abdication of authority over the summer in the face of vandalism, looting, assault and insurrection did lead to loss of life, and the local leaders who failed to assert their authority enabled the escalation, David Dorn’s death being a notable example.

David Dorn was killed in St. Louis in a pawn shop robbery by scumbags. Are you saying the local mayor of St. Louis abdicated her responsibilities and is responsible for his death? The first couple pages of hits on her in regards to BLM is her doxxing the names of peaceful protestors, not about being too gentle on criminals.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Are you forgetting about Kyle Rittenhouse and his murder of two in Kenosha, Joseph Rosenbaum and Anthony Huber?

Not at all, and I condemn vigilantism and consider it part of a tragic chain of events and failures of government at multiple levels.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Boogaloo Boys assassinated two cops in California as well.

And a white supremacist bar owner murdered someone in Nebraska.

 

[darkswordsman17]

For July to be on par, it would be the Supreme Court ruling on police brutality and BLM protestors invade the SC looking to force them to rule in their favor. What would we be seeing on right-wing media if that happened?

Oh didn't you know, that did happen. Why do you think they showed up to the Capitol! I mean sure if you have shit for brains and believe anything that confirms your white supremacist victimhood like the people that did show up at the Capitol, but here we are.

As for property damage, uh, guess we're just gonna ignore the nutjob that blew up the RV? It wasn't the Capitol but it was in line with the idiots that partook in the situation in the Capitol and they believe similar whackadoo shit and seek to perpetrate similar shit.

Plus if you take into account how their goal was to enshrine Turmp God Emperor of America, and how Turmp has cost us into the trillions via his multitude of fuckups, kinda hard to argue that the Capitol in any way was actually less. Guess we can compare the death toll after Jan 20th.