Which top-end MB would you reccomend?

[techface]

Im looking to build my first comp. Im building it pretty high spec and want lots of room for maneuver. I would like to go for a board that supports SLI as opposed to crossfire but i would like to go for x38 as opposed to p35 and there doesnt seem to be any which combine these two features - at least not that i have found.

Is X38 worth it? Is nVidia better than ATI? Reccomendations?

Thanks

 

[felang]

If you definitely want SLI, then you'll have to go with an nvidia chipset, 680i SLI is the best one available at the moment. Supposedly they used to have problems overclocking quads but I believe bios updates and board revisions have fixed this, for example EVGA released revision A1 and T1 boards awhile back, with one of those you should be good to go.

For any other video card option (CF or single card) the X38 seems to be the best bet, if money is no object then the gigabyte dq6 X38 seems to be very good.

If it was me, I'd just go for a P35, probably the gigabyte dsr3 (less than half the price of the X38 DQ6). X38 really just doesn't have any worthwhile improvements IMO. PCIE 2.0 is really going to be needed any time soon.

I hope this helps... anybody please correct me if any of this is wrong...

 

[techface]

Thanks, i have been wondering what the advantages of x38 were over other chipsets and haven't been able to find anything conclusive.

Is nVidia the better choice or is ATI looming as the soon to be graphics leader?

Im never sure what to go for as there are so many opinions floating around.

Also what about DDR2 - DDR3? I don,t really want to pay out for DDR3 but i also don't want to find my money wasted on DDR2 in a few months.

 

[Blazer7]

There is no failsafe here. DDR2 will be good for the next few months as we already know that some of the upcoming X48 mobos will come with DDR2, and from what I know, this will be the case with the 780 mobos also. DDR3 prices will continue to drop and this maybe the right choice in the long term but right now DDR3 is just too expensive.

As felang said, if you want SLI you need to go the nVidia way, if not, then you should opt for a X38 or P35 board. If you are eyeing any of the upcoming penryn cpus you?d better go for the X38.

 

[Martimus]

We know that ATI is coming out with a very high end GPU sometime around January (named the HD3870 X2), but I would guess that nVidia is going to release their new high-end GPU soon as well. nVidia has kept their cards close to their vest, but I would expect them to have something competitive to the ATI card being released soon, as they have had longer to develop it. If you go by what is available now, nVidia has the high end, while ATI seems to have the only mid-ranged solution (the HD3850 @ $179) The 8800GT has very good performance for around $300.

 

[jmmtn4aj]

There is no X38 or P35 SLi motherboard. For a seriously high-end motherboard, I'd recommend the DFI LP UT P35 T2R

 

[techface]

Is there any reason why i shouldn't go for nvidia?

 

[guptasa1]

I was in the same dilemma as you. Personally I ruled nVidia out for this round. Wanted to...couldn't justify it.

Here's the deal (at least in my opinion). You'd probably do okay with the 680i chipset (the most recent SLI one) from nVidia. They're fast boards. Unfortunately, when they were released, they ran VERY hot and had a lot of problems, including lack of stability and a high failure rate (at least from what I was seeing in the forums). I think a lot of those problems were solved with revisions and BIOS updates, but they still run hot, and there still seems to be some weird failures out there.

Another problem with 680i, depending on headroom you want for the future, is that it's been out for a while and doesn't support the latest and greatest (PCIe 2.0 for one...not sure about DDR3, and definitely not 1600 MHz FSB). A new chipset from nVidia is coming (780i and I think something else not long after that), but it's not here yet.

Finally, I was trying and trying to justify SLI and in the end just couldn't. Most of the time, you do better off to buy the fastest card you can, then upgrade more often, as new single card releases often spank or at least equal the last generation of SLI. You also avoid the heat, stability, and compatibility problems SLI introduces.

In the end, all these added up to eliminate the 680i chipset as a contender for me. Intel chipsets (at least of late) have a great reputation for stability, and while they don't support SLI, many do support more future technologies, so there are other benefits. Most people seem to love P35 - personally I'm probably going for X38 because of the extra futureproofing.

Just my two cents and my decision process - hope it helps. (And hey, if you're really, really set on SLI, research and find one of the more stable 680i's and go for it - a lot of people are happy; I just decided it wasn't for me).

 

[guptasa1]

I think there were also some sort of hybrid boards (enhanced 650i's) that supported SLI and, from what I remember, had fewer problems than 680i's. I think Asus made one of these, but I don't know much beyond that, and I don't know if they still have an advantage at this point or not.

 

[RanDum72]

Some 650 versions support SLI but only with x8 + x8 mode, not x16 + x16 as in the 680.

 

[techface]

Forgive my ignorance, is it possible to use a nVidia card on non-SLI supporting motherboard and vice-versa with crossfire, or can you use a single card on any mobo but you simply need support if you want to double up.

Also does anyone know if by January there will be any X38 or higher mobo's supporting SLI. I am not adverse to ATI but at the moment they seem to be out-gunned big time by the 8800's. Plus i fancy a GTX. It seems worth waiting to build untill Jan as Intel are releasing their new kit.

 

[Blazer7]

A single card will work in any mobo but as you?ve guessed already you?ll need to have support for multi-GPU setups. Talking about SLI, the 780 will be released sometime this year. This chipset won?t introduce too many new things as it is based on the 680. So expect it to run hot, cost a lot and perform about the same as the 680.

 

[DaddyRabbit]

In my research these are the things I've found that helped me decide on the Gigabyte X38-DQ6. Some will agree and disagree on these points but that is the state of affairs in the industry right now

1. With the rate of incremental new releases in the last year and the forseeable future (especially from Intel and Nvidia) the idea of buying "future proof" is an impossible dream

2. DDR3 is mainly being pushed by Intel but DDR2 is still a viable option I would say for the next year or two at least and I will be upgrading again by then when DDR3 pricing is more in-line with it's minor performance gains (but they will be pushing DDR4 by then).

3. I don't think I'll get huge performance gains with the X38 over my current 975X Badaxe2 but I want higher FSB CPU and, when the prices stabilize, 45nm Penryn support as well as PCI-E 2.0 support (the Nvidia 8800GT supports that now) so those items make it worth it for me to upgrade now.

4. I don't think Intel boards are going to support Nvidia SLI anytime soon unfortunately. While it would be very good for Intel if a license deal was inked and be great for Intel chipset users it wouldn't make good business sense for Nvidia as a competing chipset vendor. That said, I am pretty firmly in the growing crowd of "single high end card is better than two lower priced cards in SLI or Xfire for MOST situations" thinkers. My 8800GTS is fine for what I need to do with gaming now.

just my 2 rusty pennies

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: guptasa1
I think there were also some sort of hybrid boards (enhanced 650i's) that supported SLI and, from what I remember, had fewer problems than 680i's. I think Asus made one of these, but I don't know much beyond that, and I don't know if they still have an advantage at this point or not.

Originally posted by: RanDum72
Some 650 versions support SLI but only with x8 + x8 mode, not x16 + x16 as in the 680.

Asus P5N32-E SLI Plus. Hybrid 650i with 16x/16x SLI.

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2958

 

[techface]

I wouldn't choose SLI or Xfire off the mark, but is it not a viable upgrade option. You use the single decent card untill such time as an upgrade is necessary then you just buy the same card again at the fallen price. Or would you just buy a new single card? It seems that all things considered dual cards aren't really the way to go at the moment.

 

[panzer948]

Hi guptasa1,

Did you ever decide on your X38 solution? I am in the same boat, but am getting mixed messages on this forum to pay the extra cash for X38 vs. P35. I only rebuild my machine once every 2-3 years, so I don't mind getting close to the latest and greatest. Was still trying to be cost effective though and pickup the Foxconn X38A. I'm very curious what you have decided on and the rest of your system too.

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: techface
I wouldn't choose SLI or Xfire off the mark, but is it not a viable upgrade option. You use the single decent card untill such time as an upgrade is necessary then you just buy the same card again at the fallen price. Or would you just buy a new single card? It seems that all things considered dual cards aren't really the way to go at the moment.

Multi-GPU solutions don't usually make sense as upgrade paths due to the progression of GPU technology. They do make some sense as ultra-high-end setups when you buy two top-end(or very close to top-end) models right off the bat.

If you want to get an SLI board, consider waiting until next month when the 780 is released as it was just announced that the 600 series Nforce boards will not support 45nm quad cores, which kinda kills your upgrade path. If you're in the boat that you feel you need to look at the hybrid 650i board to fit your budget, I would probably suggest that a reasonable SLI setup(I.E. something like 8800GTs or higher) is likely not in your budget and you would be better off with a single relatively fast card.

 

[Mr Fox]

Originally posted by: aka1nas

Originally posted by: techface
I wouldn't choose SLI or Xfire off the mark, but is it not a viable upgrade option. You use the single decent card untill such time as an upgrade is necessary then you just buy the same card again at the fallen price. Or would you just buy a new single card? It seems that all things considered dual cards aren't really the way to go at the moment.

Multi-GPU solutions don't usually make sense as upgrade paths due to the progression of GPU technology. They do make some sense as ultra-high-end setups when you buy two top-end(or very close to top-end) models right off the bat.

If you want to get an SLI board, consider waiting until next month when the 780 is released as it was just announced that the 600 series Nforce boards will not support 45nm quad cores, which kinda kills your upgrade path. If you're in the boat that you feel you need to look at the hybrid 650i board to fit your budget, I would probably suggest that a reasonable SLI setup(I.E. something like 8800GTs or higher) is likely not in your budget and you would be better off with a single relatively fast card.

What Resolution and size Monitor do you have ? or plan to buy ?

Are you going to run your Graphics above 1680 x 1050 ?

The performance difference between P35, and X38 are not worth the expense unless you can answer Yes to the above question.

The same can be said for NVIDIA 680i and 780i.

These Motherboards are a dead end after Wolfdale/Yorkfield.(Penryn)

Nehalem will require a new Socket and that will happen next year aprox. this time frame.

DDR-3 will not be an advantage until Chipset Drivers, and BIOS's catch up, and improve.

Multi GPU is only an Advantage on very high resolution, and large monitors.

Remember the first rule of marketing.. Make them think that thet need it.....

 

[panzer948]

Mr. Fox,

The only problem I have with your logic is that I only rebuild once every 3 years or so. So it behooves me to build about the best I can afford so that 2-3 years down the road, I have something that can keep up with the new software, drivers, hardware addons etc. During that period, I don't even upgrade the ram or video card. So I need to get about the best now.

So if I can afford a few extra dollars, why would I not get X38? And don't say to wait for the next best thing. We all no the logic behind that.

 

[Mr Fox]

Originally posted by: panzer948
Mr. Fox,

The only problem I have with your logic is that I only rebuild once every 3 years or so. So it behooves me to build about the best I can afford so that 2-3 years down the road, I have something that can keep up with the new software, drivers, hardware addons etc. During that period, I don't even upgrade the ram or video card. So I need to get about the best now.

So if I can afford a few extra dollars, why would I not get X38? And don't say to wait for the next best thing. We all no the logic behind that.

Read what was said....

Originally posted by: Mr Fox


What Resolution and size Monitor do you have ? or plan to buy ?

Are you going to run your Graphics above 1680 x 1050 ?

The performance difference between P35, and X38 are not worth the expense unless you can answer Yes to the above question.

The same can be said for NVIDIA 680i and 780i.

These Motherboards are a dead end after Wolfdale/Yorkfield.(Penryn)

Nehalem will require a new Socket and that will happen next year aprox. this time frame.

DDR-3 will not be an advantage until Chipset Drivers, and BIOS's catch up, and improve.

Multi GPU is only an Advantage on very high resolution, and large monitors.

Remember the first rule of marketing.. Make them think that thet need it.....

What was not said was the writing that is on the wall....

Current Marchitecture was a very big advance for Intel CPU's.

The next big advance will indeed come with Nehalem.

Intel had an extremely aggressive trot out of technology over the last year, and they never slid on their time line on any of their launches.

You are better off right now in keeping the amount invested in MOBO's and CPU's that are a dead end to a minimum.

But it is advantageous to invest in Infrastructural Items that you will transfer from build to build.

 

[panzer948]

Yes, I do plan to upgrade to a larger monitor down the road. Right now I am using an ageing 19" CRT monitor, so when I do replace it, I'm going all out. That's one reason I want to have the hardware in place now so I don't have to put anymore money into it. Of course then I may pump out those higher resolutions. Will be nice to know that at least I have the option to do so.

You are making a valid argument to find a high end P35 solution, but I don't want to regret that decision in 6 to 9 months as this machine needs to last well past the introduction of Nehalem. By the time I'm ready to rebuild again, Nehalem will be long replaced by something better. So the fact that Nehalem is coming out in a year doesn't have any impact on my decision for what I want now. We all can play that waiting game but at sometime we got to just jump in.

I think I need to find a forum on just the X38 chipset. Anyone know of a good one?

 

[techface]

Im just gonna build after christmas, there is going to be a few releases in Jan which will drive down prices and stuff is always cheeper in the new year anyway. Ill check out the situation then.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Building now, and expecting it to last past Nahalem, sounds like an unwise choice to me. Get what's top of the line now, and cheap (P35 and DDR2), and then upgrade in a year or two to Nehalem and DDR3 (hopefully it will be cheaper by then).

Otherwise, it would be like running an Athlon XP still, in the days of the C2D.

I'm not even sure Nahalem will be such a big leap forward, unless Intel can pull some amazing IPC-improvement magic out of their axx. The integrated IMC alone won't add all that much, and it will reduce the need for larger caches, yet Intel has traditionally piled on more cache as transistor density permits.

 

[lilbabimac]

Hmm, I'm in the same boat as you techface. I'm in the process of building a new rig right now and once I finish, it's gonna have to last me for some time to come without any upgrades. I haven't purchased a cpu, mobo, or ram yet, but was considering the Q6600, x38, and 4gb DDR2-800 PC6400 ram, but after reading this thread, I'm not so sure if I should drop that kind of money now. Luckily, the things that I've purchased already (LG 22" Flat Panel, Cooler Master CM 690 case, 320gb Seagate 7200rpm SATA, 2 MSI 8800gt's [only using one though]) really isn't affected by the future. However, the things I still need to purchase will be. Anymore thoughts from you gurus out there?

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Get only what you need due to the rapid change in technology. Future-proof is for the bird. A quality no-frill MB costs about 1/4 of a high end board. Performance is virtually identical at the same CPU core speed. The Abit IP35-E, for example, can run up to 500MHz FSB. That's fast enough to overclock 95% of the Intel chips. Buy eSATA or 1394a cards as needed so that you can re-use these parts on another MB.