Which party is worse, the one that won't impeach because they refuse to see Trump's guilt, or the one that won't impeach and sees it?

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Mar 11, 2004
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I have to agree with fskimo here. There is no way the GOP don't see the treason. They are flat out running cover for one of their own. The rank-and-file voters, yeah I can see how most people that are ignorant enough to vote GOP are ignorant enough to not understand what a piece of shit Trump is. Same with the people ignorant enough to be "independent" in this climate, especially those that like Trump "because he isn't a politician."

No doubt there are some weasels in the Democratic party as well, and you can count me right there next to you in the camp that impeachment proceedings should have already begun and should continue over and over for each new impeachable offense he commits on a daily basis.

Its not that they're running cover for Turmp. They absolutely will cast him off the first opportunity they get. They're running cover for themselves, but because of needing to do that, they got stuck with Turmp so they also have to prevent him from going down as if he does, it'll expose them. That's why they're working to undermine everything they can, and why they were doing that before Turmp even put his name in the GOP pool, let alone became President.

There will always be weasels. That's why you need to hold them accountable all the time, regardless of them being on "your side" or not. That's why all these conservatives trying to defend this shit are full of shit when they say they care about that. They obviously don't or else they'd be saying that it needs to happen when its their own in power, instead of them going "well the Democrats would do the same!" as a defense of Republicans doing that shit.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,338
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Wouldn't it have to be ethically factual that to not act in the face of the truth for pragmatic and self serving reasons is a greater sin than not acting our of unconscious bigotry? I think the Democratic party at the top is full of weasels. What say you?
Mueller didn't find the evidence to give legitimacy to impeachment. I guess once Adam Schiff turns over all his evidence, the proceedings will begin.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,338
1,215
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Congress needs to impeach Trump first, then the senate decides if there will be a trial. Right now the democrats hold the house, so any action or lack thereof is entirely in their hands. More specifically, it's all up to Nancy. My guess at this point is she's waiting until we get closer to the election before proceeding.
The smart Democrats are keeping their mouths shut because Barr and other people at the DOJ are now doing their own investigation.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,938
5,562
136
The smart Democrats are keeping their mouths shut because Barr and other people at the DOJ are now doing their own investigation.
That appears to be the case. Hard to say if anything will come of it, though my guess is a couple of folks at the FBI are going to take a fall.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
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Mueller didn't find the evidence to give legitimacy to impeachment. I guess once Adam Schiff turns over all his evidence, the proceedings will begin.

Not quite. Barr just refuses to give the evidence to Congress.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
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Congress needs to impeach Trump first, then the senate decides if there will be a trial. Right now the democrats hold the house, so any action or lack thereof is entirely in their hands. More specifically, it's all up to Nancy. My guess at this point is she's waiting until we get closer to the election before proceeding.
Hehe, in my opinion she is waiting to get closer to the election so she can't. No idea for sure which of us is right, if either.
 

DrDoug

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2014
3,580
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I think it's more than clear that the party that is the worst is the Republican party. How about a fundraising letter from Hair Furor exhorting his supporters to throw cash their way because:

"The President is calling on you at this critical time to remind AOC and Democrats that *this is our country, not theirs.*"

Would any conservative here like to back him up on this? Agree with him? C'mon, let's see just how patriotic our resident Trumphumpers are. This asshole is pitting neighbor against neighbor in his quest to stay out of prison, he is tearing this country apart for personal gain. Supporting the piece of shit in the White House doesn't make you a patriot, it just means that you're a piece of shit too.

When you view your neighbors as the enemy of the nation you share, you yourself have become the enemy of the nation of those same people.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,409
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We all know that the far left are a bunch of slimy , two faced, hypocritical weasels.

If they truly believe they have cause for impeachment they should charge President Trump.
The political reality is that the senate will not impeach, whatever the house does. So, it becomes a side show to the business of developing a party platform going into the election year. Of course, Trump would just say it's all fake news and a witch hunt. His base are too lazy to pay attention and will just take him at his word, they are that kind of followers.

So, to a great extent the decision of whether or not to impeach the president is one of expediency. I figure that's what Pelosi thinks. If Trump wins a 2nd term, I think you will see impeachment proceedings... then! At that point, it wouldn't be a question of removing the president (unless the Democrats win the Senate), it would be expedient in that it would take the wind out of Trumps sails. It would seriously impact his prestige, wound his ego and very likely lessen the damage he'd do in a 2nd term. Those things, regardless of what Trump says or tweets as he squirms under the microscope.
 
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sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,161
136
The answer to the problem? TERM LIMITS!!!!!
Yes, term limits.
We have the democrats in the house knowing well what to do, but in their way stands Nancy Pelosi.
Nancy Pelosi with an agenda of her own.
The new democrats know exactly what needs to be done. And they should prevail. But they cant.
Again... Nancy Pelosi.

And then we have the republicans.
And again, another old fart that controls EVERYTHING and should NOT still be there in the first place.
Mitch McConnell needs to be term-limited the hell back to his home state and term limited the hell into retirement.
The same goes for old fart Chuck Grassley.
Plus.... the same with so many others that have been in congress WAY WAY way too long and have corrupted the system.
The lack of term limits is one key issue that if we had term limits would solve a lot of the problems we have today.
And problems solved not over time but solved like over night.

The founding fathers could have never seen this coming, or intended for it to be this way, where politicians make careers out of serving in government. Thus the corruption flourishes, all of them are multi millionaires from government salaries. That right there should explain the corruption.
Extremely corrupt, extremely rich politicians that rule with the power of a dictator, and can actually bring the functioning of government to a screeching halt, and who refuse to do the will of the people.
Impeachment is only a fraction of the problem, or lack of impeachment. There is a desire for laws and common sense from the people of America that will never see the light of day.
And why?
All because one person can bring government to a screeching halt. The career politician.
Without term limits we have no government, however we do have a dictatorship.
Just like the bad countries....
 
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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,208
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I think the Dems are smart not pushing impeachment...yet. So far, other than "he said, she said" kinds of shit, we don't really KNOW beyond a reasonable doubt that King Donnie the Dotard has broken any laws...sure, everyone to the left of the far right BELIEVES he has, but that's not enough.
Besides, impeaching him without a Senate conviction is just pissing in the wind...and there's not a snowball's chance in hell that the Republican controlled Senate would convict...and I don't think Moscow Mitch would even allow it to be brought to a vote.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,695
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Per the actual question I find it sad that the dems haven’t impeached yet, but they are not the worse party as they are not the one with the impeachable offenses, just being too pussy to take action.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,695
4,204
136
The answer to the problem? TERM LIMITS!!!!!
Yes, term limits.
We have the democrats in the house knowing well what to do, but in their way stands Nancy Pelosi.
Nancy Pelosi with an agenda of her own.
The new democrats know exactly what needs to be done. And they should prevail. But they cant.
Again... Nancy Pelosi.

And then we have the republicans.
And again, another old fart that controls EVERYTHING and should NOT still be there in the first place.
Mitch McConnell needs to be term-limited the hell back to his home state and term limited the hell into retirement.
The same goes for old fart Chuck Grassley.
Plus.... the same with so many others that have been in congress WAY WAY way too long and have corrupted the system.
The lack of term limits is one key issue that if we had term limits would solve a lot of the problems we have today.
And problems solved not over time but solved like over night.

The founding fathers could have never seen this coming, or intended for it to be this way, where politicians make careers out of serving in government. Thus the corruption flourishes, all of them are multi millionaires from government salaries. That right there should explain the corruption.
Extremely corrupt, extremely rich politicians that rule with the power of a dictator, and can actually bring the functioning of government to a screeching halt, and who refuse to do the will of the people.
Impeachment is only a fraction of the problem, or lack of impeachment. There is a desire for laws and common sense from the people of America that will never see the light of day.
And why?
All because one person can bring government to a screeching halt. The career politician.
Without term limits we have no government, however we do have a dictatorship.
Just like the bad countries....

I agree term limits need to be had on every branch of government, but they don’t all need to be the same term, for example scotus could be 30 years, not life time, etc.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,129
30,519
136
The answer to the problem? TERM LIMITS!!!!!
Yes, term limits.
We have the democrats in the house knowing well what to do, but in their way stands Nancy Pelosi.
Nancy Pelosi with an agenda of her own.
The new democrats know exactly what needs to be done. And they should prevail. But they cant.
Again... Nancy Pelosi.

And then we have the republicans.
And again, another old fart that controls EVERYTHING and should NOT still be there in the first place.
Mitch McConnell needs to be term-limited the hell back to his home state and term limited the hell into retirement.
The same goes for old fart Chuck Grassley.
Plus.... the same with so many others that have been in congress WAY WAY way too long and have corrupted the system.
The lack of term limits is one key issue that if we had term limits would solve a lot of the problems we have today.
And problems solved not over time but solved like over night.

The founding fathers could have never seen this coming, or intended for it to be this way, where politicians make careers out of serving in government. Thus the corruption flourishes, all of them are multi millionaires from government salaries. That right there should explain the corruption.
Extremely corrupt, extremely rich politicians that rule with the power of a dictator, and can actually bring the functioning of government to a screeching halt, and who refuse to do the will of the people.
Impeachment is only a fraction of the problem, or lack of impeachment. There is a desire for laws and common sense from the people of America that will never see the light of day.
And why?
All because one person can bring government to a screeching halt. The career politician.
Without term limits we have no government, however we do have a dictatorship.
Just like the bad countries....
Term limits just create more lame ducks. People need to think this shit through.
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,600
11,289
136
Wouldn't it have to be ethically factual that to not act in the face of the truth for pragmatic and self serving reasons is a greater sin than not acting our of unconscious bigotry? I think the Democratic party at the top is full of weasels. What say you?

AFAIK (my understanding of foreign politics) The only reason IMO that the Dems haven't officially pushed for impeachment is that they know it'll be blocked by the GOP. I personally wouldn't let that stop me in their shoes, but I can't deny the logic.

Furthermore, if in politics the only people one can rely on to keep one in check are one's political enemies, that's a pretty scary state of affairs. The purpose of a free press is to keep the government in check as well, so if one doesn't like one crowd of people pulling one up on one's mistakes and one likes to label them as one's enemies, then it logically follows that one won't much like a free press either.

It breeds extremism and a 'yes men' culture. This is not good for civilisation.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,600
11,289
136
Politicians are politicians. Yes they are all disgraceful and unethical lying weasels. If you believe a word any of them are saying it’s crazy and foolish. They can give you lip service about their stance on issues or impeachment or whatever but it’s all political theatre.

That makes you a pretty radical conservative: Civilisation is over-rated! We were better off in the trees!
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,908
136
We all know that the far left are a bunch of slimy , two faced, hypocritical weasels.

If they truly believe they have cause for impeachment they should charge President Trump.
You wouldn't know a high crime and misdemeanor if it bit you about the neck and ankles at night.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,908
136
Question not phrased properly. Republicans see his guilt but are choosing to ignore it.

Put it that way Republicans are far worse. If Trump got a fair hearing in the Senate I'm sure Pelosi would move to impeach. The way things are going OBE may force it anyway.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,634
50,856
136
That appears to be the case. Hard to say if anything will come of it, though my guess is a couple of folks at the FBI are going to take a fall.

And if as a small government conservative you aren’t outraged by the president selecting his handpicked guy who already acted unethically in this matter to investigate law enforcement who had the temerity to investigate the president I’m simply floored.

This is banana republic behavior.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
You forget that Barr is withholding the actual evidence & making Congress fight for it in court. Trump is also playing executive privilege games wrt testimony to the House. Mueller's report is actually hearsay in a court of law & McConnell will insist on the usual rules in trial by Senate. Shifting the blame to Pelosi is dishonest, no matter who's doing it.

That's why there needs to be impeachment which is a Constitutional process beyond mere hearing and subpoena as the Executive and subordinates are bound to comply. You are creating a Catch-22 requiring Barr to produce that which he can withhold with the SCOTUS waiting for impeachment. As Barr is under no such pressure he's not going to produce.

Impeachment is a whole level higher and there is no "co-equal" then. As it is waiting for the election means that future Presidents, some you like and some you hate, will have the ability to tell the nation to fuck off and it will be the fault of those who let Trump get away with it by not even trying.

As far as the Moonbeam's question goes the perp is the responsible party however those who could have interceded but watched the slaughter instead aren't legally on the hook but are in part morally responsible. There is no ceremonial washing of hands to remove the stain.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,634
50,856
136
That's why there needs to be impeachment which is a Constitutional process beyond mere hearing and subpoena as the Executive and subordinates are bound to comply. You are creating a Catch-22 requiring Barr to produce that which he can withhold with the SCOTUS waiting for impeachment. As Barr is under no such pressure he's not going to produce.

Impeachment is a whole level higher and there is no "co-equal" then. As it is waiting for the election means that future Presidents, some you like and some you hate, will have the ability to tell the nation to fuck off and it will be the fault of those who let Trump get away with it by not even trying.

As far as the Moonbeam's question goes the perp is the responsible party however those who could have interceded but watched the slaughter instead aren't legally on the hook but are in part morally responsible. There is no ceremonial washing of hands to remove the stain.

I think we should all be clear on this and realize that even if there is impeachment Trump will STILL refuse and it will be fought in court.

It might make the court victory quicker and more certain but let’s not harbor any illusions that they would suddenly comply with the law. If that were the case they already would have.