Which oil filter to buy?

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Apex

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
6,511
1
71
www.gotapex.com
Originally posted by: Insane3D
Originally posted by: Apex
Originally posted by: Insane3D
Originally posted by: SuperSix
Originally posted by: Fmr12B
Fram's are garbage. Their flow rates are atrocious.
Some of the best filters are made by Motorcraft.
Best for the money is the K&N

What orifice are you pulling this info out of?

Motorcraft have horrible flow ratings, Fram has decent flow but bad media and anti-drainback valves, and K&N, while they flow good, are not worth the extra $$$, they don't flow any worse or better than most decent "cheaper" filters.

VERY interesting info here:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb...p?ubb=forum;f=6

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

So, how about some links on how bad Motorcraft filters are? From everything I've heard, they are very good.

Oh, and your first link with "very interesting info" doesn't work...


Edit:

Just did a search in the BITOG forums, and everything I've been reading so far rates Motorcraft as excellent filters. The FL1A I use is supposed to be one of the best...

No, they're not bad. I think you misread their post. They're very good filters. They're low flowing / high filtratration though. There's often a balance between filtration and flow. It's relatively difficult to do high flow highly efficient filtration while holding the size of the filter constant (ignoring, for this example, increasing the number of pleats in the filter material).


He said "horrible" flow ratings. Horrible strikes me as a being a pretty clear negative...no?

From everything I read on Bob's forums, they are good, and made by Purolator. The FL1A is a particularly good rated one mostly do to the large amount of filter material there is inside...

:)

Horrible flow is bad if your pump is insufficient for the task, correct. However, the low flow of the Motorcraft filters is still a reality. The PureOne uses the same filtration material:

http://www.oilfilterstudy.com/PurPureOne.htm

30W 70F Oil flow @ 10psi: 5.3 oz per minute

 

Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
0
0
Originally posted by: Apex

Horrible flow is bad if your pump is insufficient for the task, correct. However, the low flow of the Motorcraft filters is still a reality. The PureOne uses the same filtration material:

http://www.oilfilterstudy.com/PurPureOne.htm

30W 70F Oil flow @ 10psi: 5.3 oz per minute

So PureOne and Motorcraft filters are classified as having "horrible flow"? Why are they considered excellent filters then? Also, what oil pump is considered inadequate?
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
Originally posted by: Insane3D
Originally posted by: Apex

Horrible flow is bad if your pump is insufficient for the task, correct. However, the low flow of the Motorcraft filters is still a reality. The PureOne uses the same filtration material:

http://www.oilfilterstudy.com/PurPureOne.htm

30W 70F Oil flow @ 10psi: 5.3 oz per minute

So PureOne and Motorcraft filters are classified as having "horrible flow"? Why are they considered excellent filters then? Also, what oil pump is considered inadequate?
"horrible" isn't really the right word.. It's just "less".

It makes sense though, and it's the same thing I've been trying to drive home with K&N air filters.

There's a fine line between efficiency(filtration), and airflow. If your filter is extremely good at capturing particles, it can't be extremely good at letting particles pass too...

It's a good thing. Although I suppose a balance between best filtration/best flow would be optimal, it's not like your engine is going to be starved for oil.

They run the test at 10PSI.. so it's just something to give you an idea of flow, since it's not something we've generally paid attention to.
 

TomKazansky

Golden Member
Sep 18, 2004
1,401
0
0
Originally posted by: Electric Amish
Originally posted by: TechnoKid
Purolator, Wix, Hastings, Baldwin, some filters made by Champion Labs (not the new Ecore styles (i'm unsure about the reliability of the thermal fusing of the endcaps to the media, as well as the uneven media pleat sapcing), or the cliker-type bypass vlaves), Fram X2(but this one is waaaaaay overpsriced for what you can get for half the price).

Champion labs makes filters for: Supertech, Advance auto, STP, bosch, mobil 1, and many many others.

Purolator and wix are probably youre best point bewteen cost and performance.

Dude! It's a filter...for the oil...on a car. It's not a piece of the space shuttle.

oh my, oil filter is very important for your car.
 

sharkeeper

Lifer
Jan 13, 2001
10,886
2
0
You know acutally, they sell kits out there, really they are bypass oil fitler kits, that can use a toilet paper roll as the filter.

Plumb this in and use a real solution such as Racor.

Add in realtime metalloid solution sampling and have the sums simplified to a numeric coefficient displayed in the cockpit. This way you know when it's really time to change lubricating oil.

If you're running with a diesel pusher, just keep a few hectolitres bunkered up and the system will automatically meter in the spent oil with the fuel delivery system.
 

yhelothar

Lifer
Dec 11, 2002
18,407
39
91
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: batmang
click the link in my signature " the batmobile ", its a website dedicated to my car.
Get that damn fvcking stupid music off your website. Fvcking annoying as hell.

ZV

Uh just push the stop button and stop whining..
 

dhoytw

Banned
Dec 10, 2004
655
1
0
Originally posted by: Fmr12B
Fram's are garbage. Their flow rates are atrocious.

Some of the best filters are made by Motorcraft.

Best for the money is the K&N


Best for the money are Bosch dude.
 

TechnoKid

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2001
5,575
0
0
Originally posted by: dhoytw
Originally posted by: Fmr12B
Fram's are garbage. Their flow rates are atrocious.

Some of the best filters are made by Motorcraft.

Best for the money is the K&N


Best for the money are Bosch dude.

Champion Labs makes filters for Bosch, STP, Supertech, Mobil 1 and I believe K&N filters. I think there are more, but i cannot be sure. Of course, champion labs has different specs for each filter of different brands.

I think bosch are what, about $6 each? Thats about the price of a wix/napa gold, which, imo, is a better filter than the bosch.
 

CraigRT

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
31,440
5
0
Napa Gold, Purolator, K&N, Mobil1.

Fram is utter trash... like the lowest of the low. You might as well piss in your engine.
 

CraigRT

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
31,440
5
0
Originally posted by: dquan97
where's the best place to buy quality filters?

Wherever you can find them :p

I stick with the Napas because they are most commonly available. (Napa auto parts)
 

McCarthy

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,567
0
76
From http://www.carjunky.com/news/motor_oil/mom7.shtml

The fact is, you would probably be amazed at how much engine wear could be eliminated simply by using more advanced oil filtration. In paper 881825 the Society of Automotive Engineers indicates that a joint study was performed between AC Spark Plug and Detroit Diesel Corp. The study found that finer oil filtration significantly reduced the rate of engine wear.

According to the paper, the tests regarding engine wear within a diesel engine were performed using four levels of oil filtration. They chose filters whose efficiency rating was very high for particles of 40 micron, 15 micron, 8.5 micron and 7 micron sizes.

The same was done for gasoline engines, except that the relative sizes were 40 microns, 30 microns, 25 microns and 15 microns.

To make a long story short, the researchers had this to say:

"Abrasive engine wear can be substantially reduced with an increase in filter single pass efficiency. Compared to a 40 micron filter, engine wear was reduced by 50 percent with 30 micron filtration. Likewise, wear was reduced by 70 percent with 15 micron filtration."


To those who think all filters are built the same or that running no filter would probably be ok for 150,000 miles I beg you to reconsider your analysis.
 

TechnoKid

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2001
5,575
0
0
Originally posted by: McCarthy



To those who think all filters are built the same or that running no filter would probably be ok for 150,000 miles I beg you to reconsider your analysis.

The first defense of preventing insolubles from entering your engine is good air filtration. The better your air intake is at filtering insoluable particles out the less stuff will get inside your engine. Combustion by-products aren't nearly as abrasive as sand and silt is.

A scotchbrite pad is just about the worst stuff your engine could ever intake as an abrasive. NEVER use a scotchbrite pad to clean up old gasket material; not worht the extra time you'll need to cleanup all the dust thats created.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
Originally posted by: McCarthy
From http://www.carjunky.com/news/motor_oil/mom7.shtml

The fact is, you would probably be amazed at how much engine wear could be eliminated simply by using more advanced oil filtration. In paper 881825 the Society of Automotive Engineers indicates that a joint study was performed between AC Spark Plug and Detroit Diesel Corp. The study found that finer oil filtration significantly reduced the rate of engine wear.

According to the paper, the tests regarding engine wear within a diesel engine were performed using four levels of oil filtration. They chose filters whose efficiency rating was very high for particles of 40 micron, 15 micron, 8.5 micron and 7 micron sizes.

The same was done for gasoline engines, except that the relative sizes were 40 microns, 30 microns, 25 microns and 15 microns.

To make a long story short, the researchers had this to say:

"Abrasive engine wear can be substantially reduced with an increase in filter single pass efficiency. Compared to a 40 micron filter, engine wear was reduced by 50 percent with 30 micron filtration. Likewise, wear was reduced by 70 percent with 15 micron filtration."


To those who think all filters are built the same or that running no filter would probably be ok for 150,000 miles I beg you to reconsider your analysis.
No, no.. I completely understand this, and that's an awesome post... it completely validates what I believe.

With my 150k miles comment, I was saying that a solid engine could probably last 150,000 miles if you changed the oil every 3,000 miles even with no oil filter - as in, that's how overkill the 3k mile change interval is(depending on conditions, of course).

Most lawnmowers in existance do not have any sort of oil filtration. The solution? You need to change the oil very often. Same principle.

If I ever buy a new car, the first thing I'm going to install (Well, after break-in...) is a 0.1 micron bypass oil filtration system.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
Originally posted by: TechnoKid
Originally posted by: McCarthy



To those who think all filters are built the same or that running no filter would probably be ok for 150,000 miles I beg you to reconsider your analysis.

The first defense of preventing insolubles from entering your engine is good air filtration. The better your air intake is at filtering insoluable particles out the less stuff will get inside your engine. Combustion by-products aren't nearly as abrasive as sand and silt is.

A scotchbrite pad is just about the worst stuff your engine could ever intake as an abrasive. NEVER use a scotchbrite pad to clean up old gasket material; not worht the extra time you'll need to cleanup all the dust thats created.
I dumped half a tube of coarse valve grinding compound into an old small engine's crankcase and fired'er up once..

After something like 3 hours at realitivly low RPMs even, she was dead. The main bearings were so sloppy that the seals were leaking oil bad and the flywheel had been rubbing on the magneto for who knows how long. Upon disassembly, the lip in the bore was very pronounced, you couldn't run your fingernail over it without it getting stuck.. even the valves had wear marks.

All friction surfaces were very shiny and bright ... No galling, scoring or pitting like you would see with an engine that was starved for lubrication.
 

OS

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
15,581
1
76
Originally posted by: Eli
Most lawnmowers in existance do not have any sort of oil filtration. The solution? You need to change the oil very often. Same principle.

If I ever buy a new car, the first thing I'm going to install (Well, after break-in...) is a 0.1 micron bypass oil filtration system.

that's kind of overkill. Most cars eventually get hit/totalled, or the rest of the car disintegrates before the engine actually dies.

I don't think I've ever heard of any decently maintained car where the engine internals wore out before the rest of the car. Either way, for almost all cars engines are easier to get than chassis.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: Eli
Most lawnmowers in existance do not have any sort of oil filtration. The solution? You need to change the oil very often. Same principle.

If I ever buy a new car, the first thing I'm going to install (Well, after break-in...) is a 0.1 micron bypass oil filtration system.

that's kind of overkill. Most cars eventually get hit/totalled, or the rest of the car disintegrates before the engine actually dies.

I don't think I've ever heard of any decently maintained car where the engine internals wore out before the rest of the car. Either way, for almost all cars engines are easier to get than chassis.
Yeah, I know... lol.... That aspect does suck.

But, it's worth the initial investment IMO... for someone like me, the peace of mind alone is worth it.
 

Summitdrinker

Golden Member
May 10, 2004
1,193
0
0
if you go too fine on the microns with the filter it will take the oil additives out of the oil

I used to know the exact number, on how fine you could go, but can't remember it right now
 

McCarthy

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,567
0
76
Originally posted by: TechnoKid

The first defense of preventing insolubles from entering your engine is good air filtration. The better your air intake is at filtering insoluable particles out the less stuff will get inside your engine. Combustion by-products aren't nearly as abrasive as sand and silt is.

I drive in an extremely dusty environment. Unfortunately I haven't run across information on who makes the best air filters. Sure is a lot of talk about oil filters lately though.

I compared a NAPA silver (what I run) to a NAPA gold to a Purolater...the "made in korea" stamp was in a different spot on each, but other than that they looked identical. (Gold was $10 more though) Any ideas on good air filters?

At least now that I'm running a good oil filter the dirt/sand should only get one trip through, not keep circulating.