Which law school should I go to?

[Adam8281]

So far I've gotten accepted to 9 law schools for next year, and I'm having a tough time deciding where to go. Here's the list:

Emory
Duke
UNC-Chapel Hill
Vanderbilt
Georgetown
Notre Dame
University of Illinois
Washington University in St. Louis
University of Texas @ Austin

Obviously Duke is the highest ranked of these, but they're all pretty good schools. Are there any AT lawyers or current law students who can offer some advice here? (I'm also wait listed at a few better schools, which if I get into I will most likely attend).

 

[teddyv]

Nice mix - I went to one of the ones you listed. It really comes down to what area of law grabs your interest and where you'd like to practice. Each has strengths and weaknesses - I picked mine because of the outstanding adjunct faculty, I wanted to live in the area, and because I was (and still am) a political animal.

 

[Mr Incognito]

I can't begin to help you but what did you have to do undergrad wise to get into a good law school?

 

[axelfox]

Do you want to go to big law where you can earn 160k BUT work 80-100 weeks, with little chance of making partner? Go to high ranking school.

 

[Adam8281]

No, I don't want to do big law. Ideally, I'd like to get into legal academia, i.e. be a professor. I'm also interested in church/state issues and other constitutional issues where policy/think tank jobs might be available. I'm more theory minded than practical - I actually applied to philosophy PhD programs in addition to the law schools this year, but so far I've been rejected from each of the 8 PhD programs I've heard back from, and I'm thinking that I probably won't get into any of the remaining 7. If I don't get into any of the PhD programs, then I'll be going with law school, but I'll still want to pursue more theoretical, philosophical issues in the law rather than prep myself to be a "BigLaw" guy.

Re: what I did in undergrad. to get into law school. I really never thought about law school until I was a couple years out of undergrad. Undergrad I was an English/Philosophy major, and got decent grades, but not top of my class by any means (3.66). After undergrad I went to seminary and got an MA in theology. I finished that last spring, and around that time decided to take the LSAT to see how I'd do (my wife is in law school, and from some of our conversations I began to become interested in philosophy of law). I got a 170 on the LSAT, at which point I decided that I ought to apply to some law schools besides the philosophy PhD programs that I was already planning on applying to. Now that the PhD applications are coming back as rejections, I'm glad I decided to apply to law school!

To teddyv: Given what you said about being a political animal, I'm pretty sure which of those schools you went to Let me ask you this - as someone who is not a political animal, do you think I'll enjoy being at this school, or is politics so in the air that I should steer away if that's not what I dig?

 

[slackerinabox]

For such a life changing decision, i think you should stay off of ATOT and do some independent research. Then again, i ask about girls all the time here, so I shouldn't judge. US News has a good guide out there somewhere, as does the princeton review.

 

[Adam8281]

True that. And I certainly am doing plenty of independent research, consultations with the wife, etc. But I still thought it might be interesting to see what some ATOTers had to say, particularly ones with experience at some of those schools. I'll be visiting Duke, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt and Georgetown soon, but my leaning right now is towards Duke.

 

[slackerinabox]

Originally posted by: Adam8281
True that. And I certainly am doing plenty of independent research, consultations with the wife, etc. But I still thought it might be interesting to see what some ATOTers had to say, particularly ones with experience at some of those schools. I'll be visiting Duke, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt and Georgetown soon, but my leaning right now is towards Duke.

My brother in law has a great, 6 figure job and he went to Cornell for law (penn state for undergrad). Harvard is also well respected. I know this is not in the same field, but the name does matter- I remember working at Deutsche Bank and was bored and checked out the human resource's server. They had resumes split into immediate rejections and follow ups - everyone in the immediate rejections were from lower-tiered school, even if they had great resumes. Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Cornell, etc. were the only applicants who made it to the next step.

 

[RKS]

FWIW I always thought that higher-tiered schools tended to take a more theoretical approach while the lower ones had more pragmatic programs.

It seemed like most of our professors had their JDs from Harvard or Yale with a few Michigan grads also. I think someone did mention geographic criteria, try to go to school where you want to practice or work. Alumni connections will land you a few opportunities since law positions are rarely advertised in the local paper.

Anyway, congrats on the 170 as well as the impressive school list.

 

[Kanalua]

Originally posted by: Adam8281
So far I've gotten accepted to 9 law schools for next year, and I'm having a tough time deciding where to go. Here's the list:

Emory
Duke
UNC-Chapel Hill
Vanderbilt
Georgetown
Notre Dame
University of Illinois
Washington University in St. Louis
University of Texas @ Austin

Obviously Duke is the highest ranked of these, but they're all pretty good schools. Are there any AT lawyers or current law students who can offer some advice here? (I'm also wait listed at a few better schools, which if I get into I will most likely attend).

Had a visiting Prof here from Duke. She was kinda disappointed with the facilities at our school. But she said that Duke isn't a community, it's a rat-race.

I would choose Duke of Georgetown.

 

[Adam8281]

Ugh - I don't want a ratrace/cutthroat environment. Then again, I'm not very competitive natured at all, so maybe if I was in a place like that it would just roll off my back. I am definitely going to visit Duke next month, and will probably visit Georgetown as well.

 

[Mallow]

Whatever ivy league you can get into or any top 15 you can. The only thing that matters is the name.

 

[CptObvious]

Hmm, I'd probably pick Duke. Thinking long term, the highest ranked school would probably give you the most post-grad job options. Congrats on getting in. I graduated from UF a couple years ago, and have been working in a small commercial litigation firm for about 14 months now.

 

[Adam8281]

Originally posted by: CptObvious
Hmm, I'd probably pick Duke. Thinking long term, the highest ranked school would probably give you the most post-grad job options. Congrats on getting in. I graduated from UF a couple years ago, and have been working in a small commercial litigation firm for about 14 months now.

How do you like working there? Are the hours crazy or reasonable? Do you think going to a top law school and doing pretty well (say top 20% of your class) looks better than going to a lower ranked school, being at the top of your class, and being on law review, etc.? Is it really true that the name is more important than your performance?

 

[CptObvious]

My job is decent. Unlike most firm associates I don't have a billable hour quota; the downside being that I'm not paid on salary but a set percentage of the hours I bring in, so it's a different kind of pressure. I can pretty much set my own hours.

As for ranking I'm not qualified to say, as I didn't go to an elite school or was even near the top of my class, but from long hours spent job searching, it seems being ranked in the top 10-25% of your class helps a lot. I imagine if you can get a high rank, plus law review/moot court etc. in a top 15 school, you'll have your pick of what you want to do, as opposed to the rest of us, who take the first gig we can get

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Adam8281
Ugh - I don't want a ratrace/cutthroat environment. Then again, I'm not very competitive natured at all, so maybe if I was in a place like that it would just roll off my back. I am definitely going to visit Duke next month, and will probably visit Georgetown as well.

not to burst your bubble, but getting a job in academia is probably more competitive of a process than getting one in a large law firm... i haven't done any systematic surveys or anything, but the impression i get is that most profs are from HYS, were on law review, and clerked.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Adam8281
No, I don't want to do big law. Ideally, I'd like to get into legal academia, i.e. be a professor. I'm also interested in church/state issues and other constitutional issues where policy/think tank jobs might be available. I'm more theory minded than practical - I actually applied to philosophy PhD programs in addition to the law schools this year, but so far I've been rejected from each of the 8 PhD programs I've heard back from, and I'm thinking that I probably won't get into any of the remaining 7. If I don't get into any of the PhD programs, then I'll be going with law school, but I'll still want to pursue more theoretical, philosophical issues in the law rather than prep myself to be a "BigLaw" guy.

if that is your goal then go to a law school where you'll be the big fish rather than an average fish. i think all of those schools on your list are good enough so that top 10 percenters get a fair shot at federal appellate clerkships, which is what you really need if you want to be a constitutional professor, imho.

 

[Wreckem]

Duke is ranked, higher, but Id go with Georgetown.

 

[Adam8281]

Originally posted by: Wreckem
Duke is ranked, higher, but Id go with Georgetown.

Any particular reason, Wreckem?

And replying to gopunk: Yeah, you're right. Most profs, at least at decent schools, do come from HYS and a couple other schools (Chicago, UVA, Michigan, Penn). Flipping through the view books these are the schools you see over and over, with a sprinkling here and there of a prof from a non-top-8 law school. I know that academia is extremely competitive to get into, but when I said that I'm not very competitive, I didn't mean that I don't try as hard as I can to get to the top, but that I am not competitive in the way that people usually mean when they speak of law students being competitive, i.e. being unwilling to share notes with a classmate who had to miss class, hiding library books that you know your classmates will need, tearing pages out of books, praying nightly for the downfall of the top students, etc. I know it's a long shot for me to make it into academia, but it is something I'm willing to compete for and try as hard as I can -- and hopefully I can remain collegial while doing so.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

I am a current law student and I can give you this advice:

1) Higher ranked schools WILL get you better jobs

2) A school in the area you want to work WILL get you more interviews, and probably a better job

Decide where you want to work, and go to the highest ranked school in that general geographic area.

Congratulations. You got into some really kick-ass schools.

 

[6000SUX]

Originally posted by: Adam8281

Originally posted by: CptObvious
Hmm, I'd probably pick Duke. Thinking long term, the highest ranked school would probably give you the most post-grad job options. Congrats on getting in. I graduated from UF a couple years ago, and have been working in a small commercial litigation firm for about 14 months now.

How do you like working there? Are the hours crazy or reasonable? Do you think going to a top law school and doing pretty well (say top 20% of your class) looks better than going to a lower ranked school, being at the top of your class, and being on law review, etc.? Is it really true that the name is more important than your performance?

Getting in the top 20% at a higher-ranked school doesn't translate to definitely being #1 at a lower-ranked school-- far from it.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Originally posted by: Adam8281
No, I don't want to do big law. Ideally, I'd like to get into legal academia, i.e. be a professor. I'm also interested in church/state issues and other constitutional issues where policy/think tank jobs might be available. I'm more theory minded than practical - I actually applied to philosophy PhD programs in addition to the law schools this year, but so far I've been rejected from each of the 8 PhD programs I've heard back from, and I'm thinking that I probably won't get into any of the remaining 7. If I don't get into any of the PhD programs, then I'll be going with law school, but I'll still want to pursue more theoretical, philosophical issues in the law rather than prep myself to be a "BigLaw" guy.

Re: what I did in undergrad. to get into law school. I really never thought about law school until I was a couple years out of undergrad. Undergrad I was an English/Philosophy major, and got decent grades, but not top of my class by any means (3.66). After undergrad I went to seminary and got an MA in theology. I finished that last spring, and around that time decided to take the LSAT to see how I'd do (my wife is in law school, and from some of our conversations I began to become interested in philosophy of law). I got a 170 on the LSAT, at which point I decided that I ought to apply to some law schools besides the philosophy PhD programs that I was already planning on applying to. Now that the PhD applications are coming back as rejections, I'm glad I decided to apply to law school!

To teddyv: Given what you said about being a political animal, I'm pretty sure which of those schools you went to Let me ask you this - as someone who is not a political animal, do you think I'll enjoy being at this school, or is politics so in the air that I should steer away if that's not what I dig?

I find that law school is NOT intellectually stimulating. That said, I am a first year, and the real interesting stuff happens later... However, for now, I can say that it is more like high school than even college or any other grad school.

 

[teddyv]

Let me ask you this - as someone who is not a political animal, do you think I'll enjoy being at this school, or is politics so in the air that I should steer away if that's not what I dig?

Politics does play a role, but more in supplying great opportunity, brilliant fellow students and accomplished professors than anything. Where else could you go from one class being taught by a former Congressman (and current Jesuit Priest) to the next being taught by a man who a year later was Chairman of the FTC. I've gone in to help teach in my areas of expertise, it is actually not uncommon to have Hill Leg staff drop in to teach the true Congressional intent and complexities of law they helped write. Then you also have school year clerkships and internships at any of virtually every major law firm in the world, national and international organizations (like the UN, World Bank, Chamber of Commerce, IMF, Unions, professional associations, etc.), and of course the very sought-after positions with the decision makers in the Executive and Legislative branches. During my second and third years I had part-time clerkships/internships with one of the big-10 firms, the International Trade Comission, a US Senator, and the EOP (in the NEOB LoL).

Plus it is pretty cool to have the Supreme Court a ten-minute walk away (and priority access to the hearing seats as opposed to the 10-minute limit tourist seats.)

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Originally posted by: Adam8281

Originally posted by: CptObvious
Hmm, I'd probably pick Duke. Thinking long term, the highest ranked school would probably give you the most post-grad job options. Congrats on getting in. I graduated from UF a couple years ago, and have been working in a small commercial litigation firm for about 14 months now.

How do you like working there? Are the hours crazy or reasonable? Do you think going to a top law school and doing pretty well (say top 20% of your class) looks better than going to a lower ranked school, being at the top of your class, and being on law review, etc.? Is it really true that the name is more important than your performance?

Name is more important than performance, but you should not have illusions. Being a law prof is maybe the hardest job to land in the entire world, short of fortune 1000 C-level jobs. There are only 180 law schools in the nation, and generally speaking, they are not "hiring." You are going to have to KILL the competition to get a law prof job. Expect also to have to get a phd as well. I go to USC and am looking at academia as well, but it is almost impossible based on my grades/ranking/school etc etc etc.

 

[ed0ggyd0gg]

"Higher ranked schools WILL get you better jobs."

What, exactly does this mean? Is it better pay? Choice of what you want to specialize in? Nicer co-workers? Easier time finding a job?

If the only difference between higher ranked schools and lower ranked schools is starting salary, then going to a lower school isn't all that bad. Just get your foot in the door and then pwn everyone like you're on Boston Legal.

I assume the "better" has more meaning than just "more money". Anybody care to divulge?