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Which is more future proof? Radeon LE or GF2 GTS?

This is kind of a tough question. The GTS is most likely to be the baseline for game designers for at least another year and a half. The GTS is DX7 compliant, which means all DX8 features will be done in software.

The Radeon, on the other hand, does have some DX8 features, and hardware T&L... The LE is slower than a GTS, but if you hack it to a DDR, it should run about as quickly.

Problem is neither of these are even remotely future proof... The question we will have to instead answer is which one will last you the longest.

If money is an issue and you are NOT running Win2000, I would get a Radeon LE. If money is not that tight, I'd probably pick up a GTS, just for the sake of compatibility with 2000, but that's just me.

powervr2 is going to jump in and say "Why not a Kyro 2?" so I figure I'll just save him the effort 😉 - the Herc 3D Prophet 4500 is a nice card but it is the LEAST future proof of the 3. If longevity is your concern, I would not even consider it.

Both the Radeon and the GTS are fine choices, IMHO.
 
The GTS is definitely more future proof, especially the 64 MB version. It has more memory bandwidth and a more powerful T&L engine.

The Radeon, on the other hand, does have some DX8 features, and hardware T&L

Uh, the GTS has hardware T&L as well. Unless you think that the Radeon has programmable T&L that's compatible with DX8, in which case you're wrong. Both the Radeon and GTS have fixed, hardwired T&L.
 
nothing is future proof, everything is being replaced by newer thing.

get the cheaper one - radeon le - save some money for future upgrade.
 
My point exactly... There is absolutely no future proof card, buy the best you can for the money, and plan to upgrade in about 8 months... by then we will have the next generation DX8 compliant cards.

I'd buy an LE, hack it, and plan to upgrade it later. Not worth the difference in $$$ for a 64MB card, imho.

BFG10K -

I did not say that the GTS did not have hardwired T&L. I merely stated that the Radeon did. I recommended the GTS for certain purposes.

Also, Did I say the Radeon supported all DX8 features. No... I said some. The only card which currently supports programmable T&L is the GF3. This is common knowledge. You automatically assumed I was talking about Programmable T&L... which I was not.
 
the Radeon might have some DX8 features but not a full set, and it's caused problems in games with DX8. overall it's probably going to come down to horsepower in which case GTS wins. if you need to drop down to 16 bit to claw some frames, the Radeon will offer you nothing.
but an LE today, a Kyro II in six months, a GF 3 in a year... call it pocket-proof...
 
Feature wise, the Radeon beats the GTS. Raw speed wise in 16 bit, GTS wins. Games in 32 bit, close call.

As for the GTS having more memory bandwidth, that is only partially correct. GTS is clocked at 166mhz (333mhz DDR). The LE is clocked at 143Mhz, but anyone buying an LE should research beforehand and know that this card goes all the way up to 185Mhz on most boards without any problems.. throw in ramsinks, it blazes at 210mhz. Thats 400Mhz+ DDR.. on a very cheap board.

That being said, its up to you. If you're willing to put a bit of effort with registry and driver issues, the LE will prove more "future" proof.. but as someone mentioned, if you're on win2k, get the GTS. ATI still has "some" problems with their win2k drivers.

Personally, if a card performs good at high resolution in 32 bit in today's game, it means that future games will run good at medium resolutions. This is how i judge future proofing. Btw, LE go for $68 now.. thats a mighty amount of graphics power for so little.
 
if you need to drop down to 16 bit to claw some frames,

It's amazing how some people overlook that feature of "bandwidth impaired" cards--IMO, that gives the geforce 2's some decent staying power in comparisson to other cards that are running full throttle.
 
Advocate:

I did not say that the GTS did not have hardwired T&L

I'm sorry if I misunderstood what you were trying to say. It's just that you used the words "on the other hand", which implies you were discussing the differences between the two cards.

Silverforce:

Games in 32 bit, close call.

No, not really. A stock LE is significantly slower than a GTS. And if you overclock the LE, don't forget you can also overclock the GTS.
 
why kyro 2 is less future proof than radeon or gts?
first kyro 2 have more features than GTS:

1º enviroment bumpmapping...

2º 8 layers in a single pass (geforce 2 can only do 2) (radeon can do 3?) that is kinda low for the future multitexturing games that will use more than 5 layers... (resorting to many passes and that can make ugly pictures... unlike kyro 2 )
why the hell kyro 2 have more picture quality with some games?
this is the answer 8 layers in 1 pass.

3º ok no T&L but heck my cpu handle that very well.. and in the future you could buy a better cpu and even get better T&L with it.. so...

4º in the future we will have more complexity more overdraw so more fill rate required... wait ... kyro 2 don't need more fill rate because of TBR...
😉

so what is the more future proof card?
KYRO 2
without question...

advocate I disagree a LOT with you why did you said
"is a nice card but it is the LEAST future proof of the "
???

 
I own a Kyro 2, and I don't consider the card to be future proof by any stretch of the imagination.

The GTS and Radeon both have T&L, which is really beginning to take off now in today's games. If I were going to have the card for more than a year, I would not have chosen the Kyro.

I picked the Kyro because it is a nice card that has a lot of features like FSAA that I like. It does everything well at the resolution I like to play on with all eye candy turned on.

For Djedimaster, who sounds like he does *not* want to upgrade for a while, I think a Kyro is a poor choice. He should stick with something with hardwired T&L, since future games are likely to support this type of T&L given the large installed user base of the GTS/Radeon.

I will be keeping my Kyro 2 only until I can get a Radeon 2 (Truform rules) or a Kyro 3. Maybe a GF3 MX if one is released.

powervr2 - Do you actually play games on your Kyro2, or so you spend all of your time preaching the gospel according to ST here on the forums? Just curious.

There is a thin line between dedication and obsession. Ask you doctor about Zoloft. 😉
 
I only spend 30 min a day here in the forums...

hardware T&L is not that great, if some geforce users are getting better results in some reolutions with software T&L than with hardware T&L (3dmark)

look at that nascar 4 topic... (an intensive T&L exigent game)
look at those numbers of geforce 3 T&L and kyro 2 software T&L...
and think about them...
 


<< No, not really. A stock LE is significantly slower than a GTS. >>

Yeah, maybe, but then again a stock LE has the HyperZ inactivated and it's running much slower @ 148/296 MHz than even the RAM's speed rating. (6 ns, hence 333 MHz.). The GTS comes with the same speed RAM.

Say a GTS can overclock to 400 MHz. That's a 20% overclock over the stock 166 speed. The LE may also hit that speed at a 35% overclock since they have the same RAM. Say even if it hits only 380 MHz, that's still a 28% overclock, and there's no guarantee a GTS will hit 400 stably either and indeed, many don't. And that's not even counting the HyperZ hack. For the record, I can bench at 410 MHz on my LE, although it is unstable. I get a few artifacts at 400 MHz. It's stable at 390+, but I run it at 382.

So arguably one may expect the LE to overclock much better than the GTS percentage wise. That said, the GTS at 333 is still faster, probably about 15% (or maybe 20% on a good GTS day) on average I'd guess compared to an LE+HyperZ at 333. Similarly, the GTS is probably about 15% faster overclocked as well assuming that they overclock similarly over 333. So, if you have the extra bux and you can get a GTS with good 2D, that's great, because it's a fast card. However, in this price bracket I'd just skip the GTS and go right to the Geforce2 Pro. OTOH, if you're on a budget then the LE is great too, and of course you're guaranteed good quality 2D.
 
why kyro 2 is less future proof than radeon or gts?

PowerVR2, what part of the thread title has the word &quot;Kyro2&quot; in it? The guy was asking about the Radeon LE and GF2 GTS. Honestly dude, your preaching is becoming tiresome.

Eug, a stock GTS beats a stock Radeon DDR. Therefore even if you overclock a LE to DDR levels, a stock GTS is faster. Any overclocks you get with the GTS is just icing on the cake.
 
I will stay away from this forum a few days...
I have more important things to do than praising a video card (even the glorious kyro 2 )
😉
 
The Radeon LE hyper Z is activated in OpenGL, only D3D is deactivated. I can't define what you mean by future proof, but hey if you put 2D, DVD performance and a low cost card, the Radeon LE definitely would win, on the other hand the GF2 GTS have great raw power and drivers especially on Win2k.
There is a few reports of the LE is not that overclockable.

Both is not future proof if things like DX8 feaatures is of your concern, while a lot of people still playing games with their TNT2. For the price the LE is a better than GTS.F
 
powervr2, according to the ign review of the hercules kyro2 board it seems that the card seems to suffer when it comes to running T&amp;L based games (such as giants) - slower than the radeon in fact. I'm not sure if this is any solid indication of which card will last longer, but it seems to me that the kyro2 won't perform as well as the radeon in upcoming future TnL based games. In addition, i have heard that you need a pretty hefty processor (1ghz+) in order for they kyro 2 to excel. At the moment, I only have a t-bird 850.
 
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