• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Which is better (more reliable) RAID, motherboard or PCI

D

daddio1949

Member
Hi,

I am purchasing the components for a new computer. I'm interested in stability and reliability computer, performance is a secondary consideration. One of the features that I want on the new computer is RAID1, mirroring. Since I have yet to purchase the motherboard, I have to decide between RAID on the motherboard or through a PCI card. I could not find any discussion on which way is a better way to go. Can anybody shed any light this. Is RAID1 faster through the motherboard? Is there more problems using motherboard RAID1? Does any particular motherboard manufacture better at it than others?

The system will be based on AMD Athlon 64 chip (754 or 939). The motherboard chipset will be either NVIDIA nForce3 250 or Via K8T800 Pro. I anticipate buying a Asus, Gigabyte, or MSI motherboard, but other good manufactures are in consideration. (Though PCI express is all the rage, I see no real advantage for myself.) Your comments will be greatly appreciated.

If this topic has been posted, I'm sorry for the repost. I have searched.

 
Basically, here's the thing. Motherboard RAID is as reliable as anything else, assuming your motherboard is of good quality.

The problem comes in if you ever need to move that RAID set to a different controller - the metadata used to identify a RAID set is vendor-specific and sometimes even model-specific.

If you think you might ever need to move that RAID set intact to another computer or replace the motherboard in that computer, use an offboard RAID card from a well knowd RAID vendor like Promise or 3ware. I can personally vouch for all Promise RAID cards being able to understand each other's RAIDs given that the card supports the RAID in use - A FastTrak can't understand the RAID 5 set generated from a SuperTrak, but other than that...
 
Motherboard is usually better. The controllers included on the motherboard (as with gigabit ethernet) are separated from the PCI bus, and have their own individual connection.

Gigabit ethernet and RAID (using a couple/few drives) easily saturate and overwhelm the PCI bus. Even a PCI-Express x1 RAID card would offer twice the bandwidth, and it doesn't share with anything. x4 would be eight times the bandwidth.

If you have a motherboard adapted RAID controller that, say, supports RAID 0, 1, 0+1.. that means that usually it's direct connection is fast enough for all those drives, same with RAID 5.
 
Originally posted by: TerryMathews
Basically, here's the thing. Motherboard RAID is as reliable as anything else, assuming your motherboard is of good quality.

The problem comes in if you ever need to move that RAID set to a different controller - the metadata used to identify a RAID set is vendor-specific and sometimes even model-specific.

If you think you might ever need to move that RAID set intact to another computer or replace the motherboard in that computer, use an offboard RAID card from a well knowd RAID vendor like Promise or 3ware. I can personally vouch for all Promise RAID cards being able to understand each other's RAIDs given that the card supports the RAID in use - A FastTrak can't understand the RAID 5 set generated from a SuperTrak, but other than that...
Click to expand...


hm I thought RAID 1 is universal to all controllers
since when 1 HDD is down, you can plug it in a signle non-RAID channel to retrieve the data
 
Hi,

If you think you might ever need to move that RAID set intact to another computer or replace the motherboard in that computer, use an offboard RAID card from a well knowd RAID vendor like Promise or 3ware. I can personally vouch for all Promise RAID cards being able to understand each other's RAIDs given that the card supports the RAID in use - A FastTrak can't understand the RAID 5 set generated from a SuperTrak, but other than that...
Click to expand...

So, if I purchased a motherboard with a Promise RAID controller, and if I switch the Raid set to another computer, would a PCI based Promise Raid controller be able to work with the Raid set intact from a motherboard. Is this true of other brands of controllers?

Motherboard is usually better. The controllers included on the motherboard (as with gigabit ethernet) are separated from the PCI bus, and have their own individual connection.
Click to expand...

If the motherboard Raid connection is usually better, and if a Promise (or any other brand) controller works no matter how it is implemented, PCI or motherboard, then a motherboard based Raid may be better way to go. Is there any review of which brand of motherboards implement a Raid controller better?

Should I avoid the Nforce3 chipsets that have Nvidia Raid controller because if a problem develops with the Raid controller, then I would need to replace the complete motherboard. In contrast, if the controller when bad on boards using the VIA K8T800 Pro chipset (a Promise controller) then I would be able to access the Raid set using a Promise PCI Raid card

Thanks for the assistance.
 
Well it's difficult to judge this.

Technically, a solution the motherboard maker puts on the board itself would have better bandwidth, as they can make it a direct connection instead of getting slowed down by the PCI bus. The problem is, motherboard makers simply don't incorporate the high end RAID controllers on their motherboards, for they would cost too much and not many would cherish the feature.

Isn't this exactly why PCI-X (Not PCI-Express) developed for server motherboards? Because PCI just couldn't cut it with extremely fast and high end SCSI RAID cards... along with gigabit ethernet, etc. Now at least, PCI-X can be phased out and replaced by PCI-E mostly... but PCI should be the first to go. 😛

If there was a motherboard that did incorporate a high end RAID controller (instead of such low-medium end ones like Silicon Image 3112, 3114, etc) I think we would all agree to stay away from PCI versions, until they make PCI-E versions that is. But there really is no alternative for motherboards without PCI-X right now... you almost have to bottleneck yourself with PCI if you want a high end RAID board.
 
me be clear though. Simple RAID 1 or 0 won't bottleneck PCI. RAID 5 and 6 will though.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information. You have been very helpful.

Since I plan to use RAID 1 using IDE drives, then a PCI based RAID card would not be a bottleneck.

Does anybody have any experience switching a RAID set from a motherboard base RAID controller to a PCI RAID when the controller is from the same company?



 
I've switched a raid-0 array from one motherboard to another with the same onboard raid conroller, and it worked fine. I did have to do a repair install of windows to get it to boot though. If you plan on moving the array at all, getting the PCI raid conroller is the best way to go. That way you are guranteed it will still work, as sometimes even similar conrollers aren't good enough. In a lot of cases the motherboards on board raid uses the PCI bus anyway.
 
Daddio,

Save yourself ALOT of future headaches and get a Promise or Adaptec PCI card.
Also, it would be wise to get a third HDD when you buy the two for the mirrored array.
This way you have an identical drive as a spare when you need it.

I have an Adaptec RAID1 setup on a PCI card and have migrated it from two previous systems. I DO NOT BOOT from this array as it is used for data only. But, I do have a brand new spare on my shelf for WHEN one of the drives fails.
 
I've never used RAID 1, but I wonder if these would work: (A or B)

A) Take both drives off the current controller, put the drives on the new RAID controller. Then tell the controller to create a mirrored drive of either of them and point it to the other drive... it might erase the partition and rebuild, but it's still an exact copy anyways.

Or

B) Alternatively, boot into your current system, use Acronis True Image to completely back up your hard drive to a .tib file. If its small enough, put it on a DVD, if its too big, put it on another PC on the network or another hard drive. Acronis True Image will allow you to boot off an included boot disk, and rebuild your disk from an image saved on a DVD, HDD, network somewhere, etc. So then you can save the image, put both hard drives on the new controller, wipe out the RAID array, make a new RAID 1, and then copy the image over to the new array (Make sure you install any needed drivers for the PCI card BEFORE making the image)

Think either of those might work anyone?
 
I would use a PCI RAID card for the reasons mentioned above. I would use a Silicon Image based card like the Syba (I think the Adaptec may also be SI based) because the SI 680A chip is the most flexible out there - any functon an IDE controller can do from the slowest LS-120 to fastest HD or RAID 0, 1, 0+1; it can do. Hard to beat for $20.
. It may also be possible to do mirroring (I'm sure you can do striping) entirely within the Windows Storage Manager without needing any special hardware at all.

.bh.
 
Hi,

Thank you for your insights and experience.

Three difference PCI RAID cards were mentioned, Promise, Adaptec, and Syba. At newegg.com the Syba is the least expensive, the Promise next, and the Adaptec the most. The Syba card is less than half the price of the Adaptec. The Syba card is based on SiL controller.

Also, I was planning to boot from the RAID drives, 2x250GB WD drives. Is this a bad idea?
 
Daddio,

Having a RAID1 array as your boot partition ia not necessarily a BAD idea until you need to move it to another system (ie. upgrade, hardware failure, etc.).
I prefer to have a smaller (40-60GB) HDD as my boot drive and then keep all of my storage (files, data, docs, etc.) on the array. I also like to keep a small partition (10-15GB) on my boot drive for a Ghost / Acronis image in case my Windoze gets hosed.
I also keep a copy of the image on the array in case the boot drive goes bad. Furthermore, I also have an external HDD to back up the array in case of a total system meltdown.
Living in HURRICANE ALLEY, you can never be too careful. 😛
 
When in doubt, ALWAYS create a backup image (Ghost or Acronis) BEFORE touching the array. Attempt direct migration FIRST, this failing, you can delete and re-create on the new hardware and restore your image.

IMPORTANT! ALWAYS make sure your system is "friendly" to the image program used. This rarely happens in the ATA realm of onboard controllers but in the realm of SCSI (Mylex especially) Ghost tends not to like the HBA. Fortunately you do find this out when trying to CREATE the array but still!

There is NOTHING that feels worse than THINKING you have a good backup, falling back on it and finding out you have NOTHING. Well perhaps jumping out of a plane and forgetting the 'chute but I won't go there. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Continuity27
Motherboard is usually better. The controllers included on the motherboard (as with gigabit ethernet) are separated from the PCI bus, and have their own individual connection.
Click to expand...

That can be true, but certainly isn't always true. If your motherboard uses a RAID chipset from Intel like the i875, it would be true if you were using one of those ports. If your using a board with an outboard RAID chip, then it's not going to have access to any extra bandwidth, and it's not going to be on a different bus from anything else.

Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX
hm I thought RAID 1 is universal to all controllers
since when 1 HDD is down, you can plug it in a signle non-RAID channel to retrieve the data
Click to expand...

Technically, you are correct. That said, a RAID 1 stripe will not necessairly be fully functional if you switch controllers - a lot of manufacturers have advanced RAID1 features like hot swapping and hot spare drives.
 
Originally posted by: stevty2889
I've switched a raid-0 array from one motherboard to another with the same onboard raid conroller, and it worked fine. I did have to do a repair install of windows to get it to boot though. If you plan on moving the array at all, getting the PCI raid conroller is the best way to go. That way you are guranteed it will still work, as sometimes even similar conrollers aren't good enough. In a lot of cases the motherboards on board raid uses the PCI bus anyway.
Click to expand...

My suggestion as well.
 
There's really no way around it. A PCI or PCI-E or PCI-X RAID controller is the way to go as if you ever want to upgrade and retain your data its the only option. Motherboard controller based RAID ties you to that particular motherboard.
 
Hi,

Tkanks for the insight. The Syba PCI card at newegg.com is about $20. Aside from the problem using rounded cables, does anybody know of any other issues or problems with this RAID card?

Thanks for the assistance.

 
Originally posted by: daddio1949
Hi,

Tkanks for the insight. The Syba PCI card at newegg.com is about $20. Aside from the problem using rounded cables, does anybody know of any other issues or problems with this RAID card?

Thanks for the assistance.
Click to expand...

The only real problem with it is that Syba isn't exactly an established RAID vendor. You're basically in the same boat with it that you are with motherboard RAID - no assurance that a different card from the same manufacturer will support your RAID set.

There are really only three options, if your motherboard has RAID built-in:
1) Motherboard RAID
2) Promise RAID
3) 3ware RAID

2 and 3 are basically equivelant - buy the cheapest card from either vendor that has the features you need. If you're looking for just basic RAID 0,1,10 I can highly recommend the Promise FastTrak TX4000. It's a 66Mhz compatible (PCI-X), 4 port RAID controller.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top