Question Which is a better Router

Nov 26, 2005
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Currently have an RT-AX86U that I just use for an AP for my N66U wireless router while using 2 of the ports of the 86U for hardwired boxes. Out of these two Ubiquiti routers, Edge Router X and Edge Router Lite, which is better than the AX 86U? If neither which is the stronger/better of the two, cause I might get one anyways and move the 86U to replace an N66U for wireless duties.

Thanks for your time.
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
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You should check, and make sure Ubiquiti didn't make those routers EOL. That's what they did with mine, and other Edge routers.
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
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Have you taken a look at their Ultimate Dream Machine setup? They have three different models. I have the pro, and it's been rock solid. A friend of mine has the base model, and now wants to move up. Ubiquiti stuff can be addictive.
 

Tech Junky

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2022
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I agree, but why? The RT-AX86U is a wifi 6 router. Why is he not using the router part?
Probably didn't want to copy over the config by hand from the N and if it's not broke, don't fix it.

Keep using the AX for AP and swap out the router side for the ISP NAT. Potentially might be switching the N to AP mode as well.

I don't get the fascination with Asus Routers though as they're not great to begin with when you shutoff all of the unnecessary bloatware they get crippled to dismal speeds.
 

Tech Junky

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Jan 27, 2022
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@Muadib

To add to this a bit more.... I got sick of running junk from companies with only profits as their motivation to keep selling junk to consumers and built my own DIY router / AP using a PC and linux. It's much more secure than anything off the shelf w/ buggy firmware that's constantly being pushed out to fix one thing and break 5 more in the process.

It's easy to do and cheaper than buying a router off the shelf. Pick up a used NUC or SFF PC and grab a NIC for the additional port to feed the WAN/LAN and go from there. All in maybe $200 for the PC / NIC.

When you do it this way then you only have to think about the AP side when tech advances you just get a new AP and plug it in vs buying a whole new setup. You can get decent AX AP's for ~$150 and even with the PC+NIC you're still spending 50% less than most AX routers.

With my setup I get throughput of 1.5gbps over wifi consistently on the LAN.

ISP 5G FWA <> DIY <> AP >> clients
Laptop is using a AX411 card that combines both 2.4/5 bands to hit that 1.5gbps
AP backhaul is 2.5gbps
I bonded 2 ports to the FWA box for redundancy since it won't ever hit the combined speed
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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As someone that:
1) Swears by, (not at) Asus routers, even better with third-party firmware like tomato.
2) Recently upgraded my whole Verizon FIOS 1Gbit LAN to an GS-AX3000 Asus gaming router, in creplacement of the Verizon Quantum Gateway, it's been a mixed bag.

I've been running my desktop PC in the other room on Wifi 6, WPA3, to the "main" router, and I've kept the Tenda (with the AC68U gurs) that I have running Fresh Tomato for my more "inner" LAN router, for legacy purposes. Eventually, I want everything running on the Asus, I think.

Anyways, I've had "slowdown" in Skype a few times, but I don't know if that was my end or the other party's end.
This was recently after Verizon added support network-wide for IPv6, or at least in my area, so the Asus router is handling that well as well.
 
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Nov 26, 2005
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I might be using the terminology wrong but the way I have things set up now is from my Cable modem I have my AX86U using the gaming port and another port for hardwired boxes, and another port for the N66U for wireless connection. Sounds weird but I wanted to use a separate router for wireless.
 

Tech Junky

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Sick of new firmware fixing one thing and breaking another,,,, constantly
Only way around that is to take matters into your own hands. I did this a few years ago when I wanted to collapse 5-6 devices into a single PC. One of the reasons was all of the FW bugs every manufacturer was patching constantly.

You can do it cheap with a PI sized device or use a SFF PC that's easier to work with.

The FW patches to me seem dumb because if the firewall is properly configured / working the rest of it shouldn't be an issue. Every or 99.999% of the routers you buy are running a Linux kernel. The problem for most of them seems to be they're running a really old version 4.x or earlier and the latest right now is 6.2.x w/ 6.3 rolling out in "beta" shortly.

All you need is a functioning "PC" and 2 Ethernet ports to get started. For wired only setup this brings you in typically under $200. Add WIFI using an AP for another $150 or less depending on what you'll settle for in terms of price / tech / speed. The $150 would be an AP I'm currently using that yields 1.5gbps for a single client.

If you have an existing WIFI router you can switch it to AP mode and forget about the constant updates being pushed and connect it to your new "router" that you cobble together.

The other advantage besides getting off the crack from companies is you can expand the features as you want / need to. If your ISP starts offering 2-5gbps options all you need to do is switch out the NIC for something that handles those speeds for $25-$100. If you're not needing a ton of devices to be wired then you can get a quad port 1GE NIC for $50/ea and just cable them directly to the "router". If you want to do the dame but higher speeds for the LAN there are 2.5GE / 5GE quad port options as well. I run a 5GE x 4 for $200 and it comes in handy at times for copying mass data to/from my laptop. When I had Cable still it allowed for bonding 2 ports to get 1.5gbps from the 1gbps plan.

There are different OS flavors you can use from those suited more for networking only or NAS or whatever. I just use the plain Ubuntu and add the packages I need to it to enable functions I want vs being locked into a single option OS / GUI. I do check the kernel link above weekly for updates as the kernel patches things that could be a problem. Running package updates is simple as well using webmin to check/apply them or you can do it by CLI as well. Most of the stuff I do is CLI but, sometimes the GUI webpage is quicker at a glance.

I also run PiHole for killing ads and distractions as well as blocking "updates" that break Windows or other software. Running apps like ntop also allow for a GUI / graph of traffic for monitoring where the packets are going.
 
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mxnerd

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Jul 6, 2007
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Cheap but good wired routers (not firewall) from Microtik? No experience.

Don''t think their firmwares update often.




or as @Tech Junky suggested, use a PC with 2 ethernet as firewall. (most common OS is pfSense)
 
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Nov 26, 2005
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Thanks for the replies.. I'm over my frustration with the AX fw currently. Gonna just keep rolling with this new fw update and not update anytime soon. Seems that's the most cost effective way to go unless there's some sweet feature that'll persuade me to update the fw; although I have had some interest in doing something different I'm just gonna stay put for now.

Thanks again for all your replies and time,

Cheers everyone!
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
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Sep 28, 2005
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Have you taken a look at their Ultimate Dream Machine setup? They have three different models. I have the pro, and it's been rock solid. A friend of mine has the base model, and now wants to move up. Ubiquiti stuff can be addictive.

Here is my 2 cents on Ubnt.

They are great stuff... im rocking full enterprise grade UBNT gear, which is the UDM Pro SE + Switch PRO Enterprise.
I also have 5 Access points spread across 7000 sqr ft, and i get full bars even in my bathroom, so you can relax in the bath with a tablet and stream whatever you want.

However UBNT seems to only play nice with UBNT infrastructure.
This is why you will see many people complain about UBNT because they are not using the full infrastructure but a cambial form.
This will give you LOTS of headaches.

So unless your willing to invest in the full UBNT infrastructure, i usually do not recommend this route, as it gets expensive VERY FAST and difficulty level scales horribly, meaning as you want more, you better have a friend who is a real IT on standbye to help you walk you though some things as youtube will be limited in some stuff you want to learn about.


So here is my advice for the more budgetted approach, to people who know how to work with customized PC hardware.
(meaning your not a "Dude your getting a DELL person".)

1. Ditch all consumer routers.
Just TOSS them out, they are all garbage, and things labeled "gamer" is even more garbage.
That 800 dollar ASUS router you bought at bestbuys after listening to the Geek Squad guy claim its the best..
G A R B A G E.

2. Get something like a Fitlet PC or a Ootom's and protectii are also good.
Important thing is MAKE SURE IT HAS AES-NI

3. Buy a PoE 8 - Port Switch. You can get a 2.5gigbit switch if you have 2.5gb devices.
(the PoE will help you tremendously if you want enterprise grade Wifi Access Points.)

4. Download PfSense.
5. Go on youtube and watch a few videos on how to setup a Pfsense Firewall Router.
(There is a million videos on how to setup and config a Pfsense Router.)

6. Need Wifi, you can get UBNT access points, but then i recommend some form of cloud key, if not Zyxel Access points are excellent for the money, or you can also get eNGinus.
(Avoid TPLink Omeda devices, also i would avoid anything labeled "Mesh" as configuring them are a PITFA as they are meant to be dummy proof, with options only available for dummies, unless u break down a console and telnet into them directly.)

The only time i have ever seen someone upgrade from a PfSense system, is when they go on real enterprise setups like UBNT, CISCO, Broadcom, you get my drift.... things that require level 2 and level 3 switches, and are typically using also using fiber cables and not pure copper wire.
 
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Tech Junky

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2022
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MAKE SURE IT HAS AES-NI
Why is this important? :) Because if you use a VPN it makes it go faster. Also, in the homebrew arena OVPN tops out at 600mbps whereas if you use anything Wire Guard it will hit line speeds for the most part if you connect to servers with enough bandwidth.

Buy a PoE 8 - Port Switch.
Depends on how many AP's you need. If it's 1-2 it's cheaper to just get 10GE POE injectors for $70'ea.

Zyxel Access points are excellent
I'm using a NWA210AX and have been for a couple of years now since divesting my internal AC card to get faster speeds. You can go the route of signing up for the web management dashboard or just bookmark the page for each one and save whatever the fee is.

1678571120385.png

11 = phone
170 = laptop with AX411 card installed. The AX411 unlocks things to combine 2.4/5 bands into a single pipe when transferring more data. I can hit actual 1.5gbps transfers on the LAN which isn't far off the max after overhead of 1.7gbps that it "could" potentially do.

The only time i have ever seen someone upgrade from a PfSense system, is when they go on real enterprise setups like UBNT, CISCO, Broadcom, you get my drift.... things that require level 2 and level 3 switches, and are typically using also using fiber cables and not pure copper wire.
Having worked on all of those except PF.....yes, they have a learning curve though even Zyxel has a CLI if you SSH into it and it's kind of a hybrid Cisco / Juniper in syntax but, relatively easy to figure out if you tab to the next command option. A cheat way to deal with it though is to DL the config from the web GUI and edit it in notepad++ and then upload it and apply it. There tends to be a lot of fluff in the out of the box configs for every vendor though but, I condensed it down to considerably less in notepad. Less distractions / macro fluff means it's easier to find issues if they come up.

For the price point though the NWA210AX @ $150ish is still a good deal for AX speeds. It's got a 2.5GE port and POE/AC options out of the box. The firmware was a bit buggy at release but, the last ~18 months or so have been rock solid. They've been releasing updates a bit more frequently lately though for some reason. Nothing really stands out as to why. Zyxel though is a bit of a hidden gem when it comes to equipment because they're kidn of niche and don't sell them at walmart / best buy off the shelf. SMB grade or even Enterprise depending on budget constraints. They were planning on releasing a 6E / NWA220AX version of the AP as well but, got caught in the supply chain issues last year. Hmm..
https://www.amazon.com/802-11axe-Dual-Radio-Supporting-Configuration-NWA220AX-6E/dp/B0B9H89MQF @ $180 might be time to reconsider another upgrade even with BE around the corner.

A decent reference guide is - https://www.duckware.com/tech/wifi-in-the-us.html
 

Tech Junky

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2022
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Interesting. You can use 5ghz or 6ghz but not both. I mean it saves on the cost of HW and heat w/ only one radio working vs all of them at the same time. Tri-Band = more $$$. I forgot about this slide of hand trick some companies use when designing their AP / router for 6E. Same goes for some of the WIFI adapters for sale as well though most use the Intel AX210 and just charge more for them.


5 OR 6 but not both. Which would be fine from my output above none of the lower bandwidth devices need to be exceedingly fast to connect / stream effectively. Putting the laptop / phone on 6ghz and relegating everything else to 2.4 would be fine for me. It's tempting to order one and put it through the paces to see how they compare. With the new phone that has 6E I did a scan and nothing shows up around me on 6ghz indoors or outdoors even. Tempting to hit up Amazon for a next day delivery on it.
 

Justinus

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
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Thanks for the replies.. I'm over my frustration with the AX fw currently. Gonna just keep rolling with this new fw update and not update anytime soon. Seems that's the most cost effective way to go unless there's some sweet feature that'll persuade me to update the fw; although I have had some interest in doing something different I'm just gonna stay put for now.

Thanks again for all your replies and time,

Cheers everyone!

I am surprised no one has suggested you to try Asus-WRT merlin firmware yet. He does very quality work, to the point asus has integrated features and fixes he's made into official firmwares.

I had an Asus router that needed to be rebooted every week but when I switched to merlin it had 6 months of uptime with no issue. I can't recommend his firmware enough.
 
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