Which is a better driver's car: Rear-engine or mid-engine?

[Dari]

I was listening to an argument at a bar tonight and these two guys were arguing about which layout of the engine is superior, mid-engine (m-e) or rear-engine (r-e). They were talking about two cars, a Porsche Cayman R and a Porsche GT3 RS. I don't know much about cars and I don't know much about these cars but I do understand physics. I know that the more the weight is closer to the driver's wheels the better traction you get (+1 for r-e), but center of gravity and a near 50-50 weight distribution would also be optimal (+1 for m-e). I googled to find out more about these cars only to realize that the GT3 has far more horsepower than the Cayman R. So, which is the better driver's car? Would similar horsepower put things in favor of the Cayman?

 

[SSSnail]

Yes.

 

[Dari]

Yes.

OK. Thanks for answering. I wonder why they don't just make a Cayman RS...

 

[SSSnail]

OK. Thanks for answering. I wonder why they don't just make a Cayman RS...

Because they don't want it to eat into the sales of the 911s.

But fret not, buy a Cayman S, and call these guys http://www.tpcracing.com/tpcracing-987-stg1-turbo.html. All you need is 4PSI more for a seriously fun time.

 

[Dari]

Because they don't want it to eat into the sales of the 911s.

But fret not, buy a Cayman S, and call these guys http://www.tpcracing.com/tpcracing-987-stg1-turbo.html. All you need is 4PSI more for a seriously fun time.

You'd think that since the RS series is for purists they would make a Cayman RS and price it outrageously not unlike the GT3 RS. Then it would have the best of all worlds.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Both of those cars are rear engine so I'm not really sure why they were arguing.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Both of those cars are rear engine so I'm not really sure why they were arguing.

No, no they are not. The Cayman is mid-engine, just like the Boxster.

For the OP: Rear-engine is a widowmaker. Snap-oversteer and very bad behavior if the driver makes any mistakes. Basically, rear-engine cars tend to have very little forgiveness, if any at all. Mid-engine cars tend to be better balanced but can be twitchy due to the mass being centralized.

Honestly, the best "drivers cars" for people of average skill are front-engine cars with a rear transaxle. The 50/50 balance mixed with the mass being distributed at the ends, rather than in the middle, tends to make these cars react more predictably and give more warning before they let go. While a mid-engine car will tend to have higher overall limits, a front-engine car with a rear transaxle will make it easier for the average driver to approach its limits.

ZV

 

[Jumpem]

Mid-engine. It seems to be widely regarded in the automotive press that the Cayman is the superior handling of the two.

 

[Ferzerp]

Because they don't want it to eat into the sales of the 911s.

But fret not, buy a Cayman S, and call these guys http://www.tpcracing.com/tpcracing-987-stg1-turbo.html. All you need is 4PSI more for a seriously fun time.

$7500 for only another 100 whp? Pfft......

 

[Zap]

$7500 for only another 100 whp? Pfft......

They explicitly state that it is a conservative tune designed to be reliable with stock vehicles. It comes with injectors, exhaust system and a custom tune.

Let's see, 987 Boxter starts just under $17,000 if I don't care about mileage... :whiste:

 

[JulesMaximus]

No, no they are not. The Cayman is mid-engine, just like the Boxster.

For the OP: Rear-engine is a widowmaker. Snap-oversteer and very bad behavior if the driver makes any mistakes. Basically, rear-engine cars tend to have very little forgiveness, if any at all. Mid-engine cars tend to be better balanced but can be twitchy due to the mass being centralized.

Honestly, the best "drivers cars" for people of average skill are front-engine cars with a rear transaxle. The 50/50 balance mixed with the mass being distributed at the ends, rather than in the middle, tends to make these cars react more predictably and give more warning before they let go. While a mid-engine car will tend to have higher overall limits, a front-engine car with a rear transaxle will make it easier for the average driver to approach its limits.

ZV

Hmm, I didn't realize the Boxster was mid-engined. I guess I just figured it was the same basic layout as a 911.

I really like the Cayman and the new Boxster. Very good looking cars.

 

[Ferzerp]

The new boxster is incredibly easy to drive. I assume the cayman is too.

 

[fstime]

What people do not realize is, the 911 has been in production for 50 years. Rear engine IS a silly layout, but it is part of what actually makes a 911 what it is.

Over the course of 50 years, Porsche has been ironing out the wrinkles in its design and improving the bad characteristics of the rear engine layout until today where it has become so fine-tuned that you can say it performs exceptionally.

Mid engine is a better design theoretically, Porsche would never let the Cayman surpass the 911 because the 911 is supposed to be the companies halo car.

 

[MagickMan]

Starting with the 991 series, they're pushing the engine further up. In fact, it's technically 50/50 with the rear axle now. I imagine that the next 911 will be properly RMR.

 

[Skurge]

Any other Rear engined car would probably handle like crap. The 911 has 50yrs or refinement behind it. It has become one of the best handling cars in the world through sheer force on will on the part of Porsche's engineers. Just look at their other non 911 cars. The Panamera outperforms every other car in its class. The same with the Cayenne and the Cayman/Boxter. Their cars are universally praised.

So mid engined in probably the better driver's car (whatever that might mean to you). The 911 is an exception. There is a reason why nobody else makes rear engined cars.

The 911 is a great car not because it is rear engined, it's a great car because it is a 911.