Which graphic card to buy?

[lenkiatleong]

Hi,
1) I have the below as my HTPC:
- Intel mobo DP35DP
- Q6600 CPU at 2.4 GHz
- 8GB RAM
- Ubuntu 9.10 (64bits)
- Nvidia 8600 GT

2) With the above rig, i find that it could not cope with HD video especially when my camcorder (Sony HDR-CX520E) pans quickly. However, when playing directly from the cam, the video is very smooth always. I am using VLC to playback the mts/m2ts file (1920x1080i) recorded with the cam. After selecting "All" for the H264 decoding in VLC, it plays much more smoother but not as good as the cam yet.

3) I'm not sure which part of my rig above that could not make the video plays smoothly but i suspect its the Nvidia card. If this is true, can someone please advise me which graphic card from Nvidia or Ati that i should buy which is good enough to play the m2ts or HD videos as smooth as the cam.

4) I noticed that there are many models from both camps and they sure succeeded confusing me totally. I also noticed that my mobo supports only PCI x16 (http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboards/DP35DP/DP35DP-overview.htm) but looking at Ati cards, they are offering PCI x16 gen2. So what does gen2 means? Will it works in my mobo?

5) In sum, i simply need advice from you good forumers here to buy a graphic card that serve my HD video need. I don't play fancy games. Just a normal internet game for my kids like maplestory and audition from www.maplesea.com.

Sorry for the lengthy details and thanks in advance.

Len

 

[postmortemIA]

pci-e 2.0 cards work on pci-e 1.1 boards, i have newer ati card and same mobo

i have no problem playing any hd video, are you sure it is not linux's fault?

 

[lenkiatleong]

pci-e 2.0 cards work on pci-e 1.1 boards, i have newer ati card and same mobo

i have no problem playing any hd video, are you sure it is not linux's fault?

I tried running the same m2ts file on my notebook (Lenovo T610p, C2D T7700, Nvidia Quadro Fx 570M, Windows XP SP3) and the HD playback quality is similar to the linux rig too.

However, its good info you gave me that your HD4870 plays any HD video smoothly. Would be good if you can confirm that m2ts file and blu ray video works too?

 

[NoQuarter]

Hm make sure video accelerated output is turn on in the options? Also how well does VLC multithread? If the file is in good condition and playback quality sucks, the cores should all be pegged at least. Can't imagine a Q6600 not having enough power to decode that stream with all 4 cores going even without GPU help. Is there a different player or different movie you can try?

 

[postmortemIA]

I don't have blue ray player on computer, I play Apple's 1080P stuff occasionally... and that is probably has no hardware acceleration

Apple's specs say that 2.0GHz C2D should be able to play 1080P.

 

[v8envy]

Are you using up to date nvidia binary blob drivers? Even an 8400 can play back 1080p flawlessly if the content is encoded with codecs it supports.

Something isn't right here. Are you playing video over USB2 to the camera, or after downloading it to the hard drive? What's your CPU usage during playback?

Don't get an ATI video card for Linux. Just trust me on this one. In six months to a year, sure. But as of today their support for video playback (among other things) is years behind NV's binary driver.

 

[lenkiatleong]

Hm make sure video accelerated output is turn on in the options? Also how well does VLC multithread? If the file is in good condition and playback quality sucks, the cores should all be pegged at least. Can't imagine a Q6600 not having enough power to decode that stream with all 4 cores going even without GPU help. Is there a different player or different movie you can try?

I am not sure how well VLC multithread. I remembered that only one CPU is 100% and the rest are low usage.

Video accelerated is ON in VLC.

Tried other players, e.g., KMplayer, Mplayer on other m2ts files but worst results. Only VLC with H264 decoding set to "All" works better.

When i play youtube 1080p downloaded fully, the video is good. I'm not so sure if the youtube 1080p file is compress type or raw. The m2ts file i played is 1920x1080i raw.

Edit:
The cpu loads are:
cpu1 avg 5% cpu2 avg 85% cpu3 avg 30% cpu4 avg 5%

 

[lenkiatleong]

I don't have blue ray player on computer, I play Apple's 1080P stuff occasionally... and that is probably has no hardware acceleration

Apple's specs say that 2.0GHz C2D should be able to play 1080P.

Ya. I suspect that apple 1080p files are compressed. I will try to capture another short video using my cam and upload it here tonight. I hope you can try it and see whether your rig can play the m2ts file smoothly when i pans the cam.

 

[lenkiatleong]

Are you using up to date nvidia binary blob drivers? Even an 8400 can play back 1080p flawlessly if the content is encoded with codecs it supports.

Something isn't right here. Are you playing video over USB2 to the camera, or after downloading it to the hard drive? What's your CPU usage during playback?

Don't get an ATI video card for Linux. Just trust me on this one. In six months to a year, sure. But as of today their support for video playback (among other things) is years behind NV's binary driver.

Initially, Ubuntu 9.10 uses default Nvidia driver 185.x.x and i upgraded it to 190.x.x.

The m2ts raw files are stored in my Dlink DNS323 NAS (100Mbps) wired to Dlink DIR655 router and my Ubuntu HTPC is also wired to the router using 1Gbps. I find that there is no diff when i played the m2ts files from NAS or directly from HTPC HDD.

Only one of the CPU is 100% when playing m2ts file.

Thanks for the warning about ATI card. I almost wanted to buy 5750 or 5670 model but i don't like the idea of having a fan. More risk of breakdown?

Please wait till i upload a sample m2ts raw file and see if 8400 model could play smoothly. Thanks.

Edit:
The cpu loads are:
cpu1 avg 5% cpu2 avg 85% cpu3 avg 30% cpu4 avg 5%

 

[lenkiatleong]

Hi Gentlemen,

Here's the link to my mts file. Filename is 00003.mts. I uploaded it to www.mediafire.com.

Here's the link directly to the file for download. Its 30.66MB.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/jdjthekzlj5/00003.MTS

On my HTPC, the zoom in and out is alright but when i pan the cam quickly, i get artifacts, blur images and sometimes some quick lines appears on the DLP TV.

When played directly from cam to TV, no artifacts, no quick lines but a little bit of blur image (relatively less than HTPC) when panning. Maybe due to LCD slow response.

Would be interesting to hear comments from you on your rigs.

 

[happy medium]

I don't know if this helps, but I downloaded the video and played it on my crt and my 37 inch lcd. Both played just fine with mabe 5% cpu use over all 4 cores.
I used the built in windows media player in windows 7 and a ATI 5750 card.

I'd like to note that when you moved the camera around the room both my crt and lcd got slightly blurry.
Other then that,I watched it looping several times and it was fine.

If you would like me to try it with another program (VLC?) ,let me know.

 

[lenkiatleong]

I don't know if this helps, but I downloaded the video and played it on my crt and my 37 inch lcd. Both played just fine with mabe 5% cpu use over all 4 cores.
I used the built in windows media player in windows 7 and a ATI 5750 card.

I'd like to note that when you moved the camera around the room both my crt and lcd got slightly blurry.
Other then that,I watched it looping several times and it was fine.

If you would like me to try it with another program (VLC?) ,let me know.

Hi,
Thanks for trying out the video. Ya i heard that Windows media player 12 in win7 supports AVCHD codec very well and with your rig its amazing to learn that cpu loads are only 5%.
ATI 5750 should solve my problem. But if you could kindly test again with VLC and if it plays as smooth as WMP12, i am totally sold with 5750. If the VLC stutters, pls remember to select "All" for H264 decoding setting in VLC. Thanks.

 

[NoQuarter]

Well, I tried the video in both VLC and WMP on my Athlon X2 5200+ w/Radeon 5770. In WMP CPU usage was around 6% average and it played perfectly.. using VLC or Media Player Classic (ffdshow) it was around 55% CPU but had severe stuttering problems in certain spots. I tried every setting in VLC, video acceleration on/off, h264 skip set to all, output to directx, opengl, etc, it always played back poorly.

 

[Qbah]

So I downloaded your file. It's a bit blurry when you move the camera. But apart from that it's sharp. Now for the players. All default settings (so I guess it might be possible to not make the 3rd party ones run like crap? )

It's perfectly smooth under WMP12 in Win7 HP 64bit. No codec packs just DivX with .mkv support and AC3 Filter (no idea if that influences anything). CPU usage @ 0-5%. GPU usage from 25-70% during playback. I have a measly HD4350 Running Catalyst 9.12

VLC - pegs my GPU quite a few times at 100% and then the clip stutters. Usually around 70%. Or it reads from the HDD a lot more than the other 2. CPU running at ~30% on average, two cores only (other two seem not used). Definitely a lot worse than WMP12. Still, it's fine, usually.

MPC Home Cinema x64 - CPU at 40+%, GPU at 90+%, usually 100% - the whole clip feels very sluggish and is not really watchable. Also, stutters like crazy.

My CPU is a Q9450 @stock 2.67GHz.

EDIT: The only reason I keep VLC / MPC is for .flv files. If WMP12 supported those without any codec packs, I'd never use anything else.

 

[lenkiatleong]

Well, I tried the video in both VLC and WMP on my Athlon X2 5200+ w/Radeon 5770. In WMP CPU usage was around 6% average and it played perfectly.. using VLC or Media Player Classic (ffdshow) it was around 55% CPU but had severe stuttering problems in certain spots. I tried every setting in VLC, video acceleration on/off, h264 skip set to all, output to directx, opengl, etc, it always played back poorly.

The truth hurts!! Even with your 5770, VLC could not make it. It seems like only WMP12 in Wins7 supports AVCHD very well as of today. It looks like i have to buy Win7 in order to enjoy my cam files.
Not sure when VLC will release new version that supports AVCHD codec. And apparantly, VLC is the best media player for Ubuntu today.
I like Ubuntu 9.10 very much and quite relunctant to convert to Win7. Its the best of both Windows and Apple OS. As i am sitting about 12 feet away from the TV, the desktop zoom feature is very useful which i could not find in other OSes.
Thanks for your feedback.

 

[happy medium]

Not true!
I just ran it with VLC and it only used 20% cpu and 26% gpu amd I have a 5750. It was mainly using 2 cores but still was using all 4 cores. I started it with all 4 cores flatlined.

The quality (clear and crisp) was not
quite as good as windows 7 but it was not because of cpu or gpu performance.

The video never stuttered so I never selected "all" for h264 coding.

 

[lenkiatleong]

So I downloaded your file. It's a bit blurry when you move the camera. But apart from that it's sharp. Now for the players. All default settings (so I guess it might be possible to not make the 3rd party ones run like crap? )

It's perfectly smooth under WMP12 in Win7 HP 64bit. No codec packs just DivX with .mkv support and AC3 Filter (no idea if that influences anything). CPU usage @ 0-5%. GPU usage from 25-70% during playback. I have a measly HD4350 Running Catalyst 9.12

VLC - pegs my GPU quite a few times at 100% and then the clip stutters. Usually around 70%. Or it reads from the HDD a lot more than the other 2. CPU running at ~30% on average, two cores only (other two seem not used). Definitely a lot worse than WMP12. Still, it's fine, usually.

MPC Home Cinema x64 - CPU at 40+%, GPU at 90+%, usually 100% - the whole clip feels very sluggish and is not really watchable. Also, stutters like crazy.

My CPU is a Q9450 @stock 2.67GHz.

EDIT: The only reason I keep VLC / MPC is for .flv files. If WMP12 supported those without any codec packs, I'd never use anything else.

WMP12 and HD4350 plays smoothly too!! Amazing. I reckon that my existing Nvidia 8600 should work too if i install Win7 with WMP12. Thanks for trying.

 

[lenkiatleong]

Not true!
I just ran it with VLC and it only used 20% cpu and 26% gpu amd I have a 5750. It was mainly using 2 cores but still was using all 4 cores. I started it with all 4 cores flatlined.

The quality (clear and crisp) was not
quite as good as windows 7 but it was not because of cpu or gpu performance.

The video never stuttered so I never selected "all" for h264 coding.

Strange. I could not read/see your full comments in the main thread but i could see more of your comments when i reply your post!.

Anyway, i am now confused. Using VLC, you don't even have to select "all" and the video never stutter? But its clear that WMP12 plays better than VLC in all the tests so far. This is a fact and it hurts me.

Can you pls elaborate more why its not because of cpu or gpu? Its WMP12 you mean?

 

[Qbah]

WMP12 and HD4350 plays smoothly too!! Amazing. I reckon that my existing Nvidia 8600 should work too if i install Win7 with WMP12. Thanks for trying.

You could try it out first. Just get Win7 Release Candidate, it's still working fine. Just google for a key (hell, even no key since you'll be testing and you have 30 days to activate). You can get the RC from the usual places.

 

[happy medium]

So I downloaded your file. It's a bit blurry when you move the camera. But apart from that it's sharp. Now for the players. All default settings (so I guess it might be possible to not make the 3rd party ones run like crap? )

It's perfectly smooth under WMP12 in Win7 HP 64bit. No codec packs just DivX with .mkv support and AC3 Filter (no idea if that influences anything). CPU usage @ 0-5%. GPU usage from 25-70% during playback. I have a measly HD4350 Running Catalyst 9.12

VLC - pegs my GPU quite a few times at 100% and then the clip stutters. Usually around 70%. Or it reads from the HDD a lot more than the other 2. CPU running at ~30% on average, two cores only (other two seem not used). Definitely a lot worse than WMP12. Still, it's fine, usually.

MPC Home Cinema x64 - CPU at 40+%, GPU at 90+%, usually 100% - the whole clip feels very sluggish and is not really watchable. Also, stutters like crazy.

My CPU is a Q9450 @stock 2.67GHz.

EDIT: The only reason I keep VLC / MPC is for .flv files. If WMP12 supported those without any codec packs, I'd never use anything else.

My gpu was using 25%. I noticed my overclock was not enabled and enabled it and now it uses 5%. Its the powerplay tech thats in our cards, it automaticly downclocks in 2d. When I enable my overclock with MSI afterburner it never downclocks. It runs at 900 core 1340 memory on the desk top!

So new results with VLC player is 18% cpu and 5% gpu for me.

 

[Arkaign]

WMP12 and HD4350 plays smoothly too!! Amazing. I reckon that my existing Nvidia 8600 should work too if i install Win7 with WMP12. Thanks for trying.

Yeah Win7 might be a good bet for what you're trying to do, HD playback and format support are just easier and more supported under Windows. You don't have to give up Ubuntu entirely, but this is probably the easiest route.

On the Linux side, I've heard that ATI drivers for *nix are still not very good, so I'd hesitate to pair a 5770 with Linux. On Windows ATI works beautifully though, but I think your current config should be more than enough to do 1080p uncompressed playback.

 

[Qbah]

Not true!
I just ran it with VLC and it only used 20% cpu and 26% gpu amd I have a 5750. It was mainly using 2 cores but still was using all 4 cores. I started it with all 4 cores flatlined.

The quality (clear and crisp) was not
quite as good as windows 7 but it was not because of cpu or gpu performance.

The video never stuttered so I never selected "all" for h264 coding.

Well, your CPU has almost 50% more "MHz" and your GPU is in a completely different league That might have some influence on you getting lower usage numbers

 

[happy medium]

Strange. I could not read/see your full comments in the main thread but i could see more of your comments when i reply your post!.

Anyway, i am now confused. Using VLC, you don't even have to select "all" and the video never stutter? But its clear that WMP12 plays better than VLC in all the tests so far. This is a fact and it hurts me.

Can you pls elaborate more why its not because of cpu or gpu? Its WMP12 you mean?

The picture was good but not as clear as windows 7 media using VLC.
A little fuzzy is what I mean. The picture on media player was more crisp and clear. Not a big deal but I thought I'd mention it.

 

[happy medium]

In case you missed this post.....

My gpu was using 25%. I noticed my overclock was not enabled and enabled it and now it uses 5%. Its the powerplay tech thats in our cards, it automaticly downclocks in 2d. When I enable my overclock with MSI afterburner it never downclocks. It runs at 900 core 1340 memory on the desk top!

So new results with VLC player is 18% cpu and 5% gpu for me.

Edit : sorry Qbah I got you post confused with the guy with the x2 5200 and 5770. Sorry

 

[Qbah]

Off-topic rant:

As for downclocking in 2D... The card runs 600/400MHz all the time (idling or anything 3D). I have a 40" HDTV connected through a DVI>HDMI ATi converter and the LCD through DVI. If I unplug the HDTV, it goes down to 110/400MHz. So it downclocks fine only then - fcking ATi has been doing it forever, every single card I had - my electricity bill for last year when I had the HD4870 was crazy high... Same thing was happening to HD3450 and the X1950XTX with 2 LCD screens.

On-topic

So my card at full clocks it just enough to play the clip Since his 8600GT is a lot faster than a HD4350, he should be fine in terms of hardware. So it all comes down to proper OS/player/codec support.