Which GPU for an upgrade from a HD 6870 ?

[MentalIlness]

I am currently running a HD 6870 which I have used almost since launch. And now it is time to upgrade. I will be buying a new GPU next week, so that gives me a little time to decide.

These are the only requirements I need met.....

GPU will be "ONLY" used for gaming. Nothing else.

I do not care if it is AMD or Nvidia. Have had great luck with both. And my motherboard supports Crossfire and SLI.

So...recommendations please ?
_________________________

I have decided to choose between the GTX 660 FTW, GTX 670 FTW and the HD 7950. Does anyone think the 192-bit bus will be a limiting factor at 1080p ? Decided to go with one of the above cards, because in January I plan on going with a 1440p monitor.

What exactly is TXAA ?

I do not overclock GPU's.

 

[turn_pike]

Eh... if you are sure you aint gonna need "anything over HD 7870 performance" then just get the quietest 7850 and overclock it a lil' bit.

 

[RussianSensation]

GTX660Ti if you don't plan on overclocking OR HD7950 if you plan to overclock (Twin Frozr 3, Gigabyte Windforce 3x for example).

660Tis can be found for $300+ shipping, while HD7950 is a bit more expensive venturing to $320-330 for good after-market versions. You can also find those on sale for as low as $317 if you look in our Hot Deals or ask around.

If you want to save some $, there is also HD7850 that can often be had for $207-220. Not sure if it'll be enough of a performance increase for your needs though. It's main value comes from overclocking.

Stock performance puts 7950 800mhz ~ GTX660Ti with 12 Reviews having an 800mhz with a slight lead over the 660Ti on average at 1080P 4/8AA.

For your specific games, at stock speeds 660Ti has a 10% advantage at 1080P + MSAA against an 800mhz 7950 and a 13% lead with FXAA (playable setting) in MP3. As a bonus, 660Tis ship with Borderlands 2.


OTOH, 7950 also can't be easily discounted.

Linus Tech Tips did 7950 vs. 660Ti BF3 Multiplayer testing.

950mhz 7950 = 58.4
MSI GTX660Ti Power Edition with 1200mhz GPU Boost = 61.2

HD7950 after-market versions have 30-40% overclocking headroom.

Here is 1150mhz + GPU Boost 660Ti in BF3

Here is 1025mhz HD7950 in BF3

A good after-market 7950 can hit 1100-1200mhz as seen in our forum thread.

So I'd say those 2 are your main options under $325 at this time. Based on a wider variety of games and taking overclocking into account, 7950 @ 1100-1200mhz would beat an overclocked 660Ti in other games since it has more GPU power. Based on MP3 and BF3 though, 660Ti should be cheaper and faster at stock but 7950 would easily catch it overclocked. New Bioshock is not due until next year but has generally ran faster on AMD cards. Too hard to say what its performance will be.

 

[MentalIlness]

I have decided to choose between the GTX 670 FTW and the HD 7950.

What exactly is TXAA ?

If I go with the GTX 660, I want the GTX 680 pcb.

I have raised the budget up a little bit.

And I do not overclock GPU's. Would a 3 GB GTX 660 FTW have any type of advantage over the 2 GB model ?

EDIT: Updated OP.

 

[Arkadrel]

What exactly is TXAA ?

http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/the-secret-world-txaa/

a new anti-aliasing technique introduced with the latest "Kepler" generation of GPUs. Designed specifically to reduce temporal aliasing (crawling and flickering in motion), TXAA is a combination of hardware anti-aliasing, a custom anti-aliasing resolve, and a temporal filter. To filter pixels, TXAA uses a contribution of samples both inside and outside of the pixel in conjunction with samples from prior frames, to offer the highest quality filtering possible.

Theres a video that shows it there.

However there alot of people people that say it blurrs details to much.

Eksamples:

No AA: http://www.abload.de/img/thesecretworlddx11201cxu3y.png
TXAA : http://www.abload.de/img/thesecretworlddx112019eut9.png

look @skirt, @face, @AC fan, @jeans = blur

Since part of it is hardware, that means the games need to be made to use this type of AA.
The problem is, since AMD doesnt support it, its gonna be like PhysX, something you ll only find in a few games each year.

So far I think only "The Secret World (MMORPG)" supports it.

 

[Termie]

In your situation, I'd go with the 7950. Even though you don't overclock, I think its memory configuration will pay off for you at your future 2560 resolution.

The 3GB 660Ti models are interesting. The problem is that you don't know what you're getting. In theory it should allow all the memory to work at full (192-bit) speed, unlike the 2GB version, but because the memory management is handled in drivers, I wonder if the 3GB would actually be utilized correctly.

Was it that Skyrim 4xAA result posted a few days ago that got you thinking about the 6870???

 

[MentalIlness]

In your situation, I'd go with the 7950. Even though you don't overclock, I think its memory configuration will pay off for you at your future 2560 resolution.

The 3GB 660Ti models are interesting. The problem is that you don't know what you're getting. In theory it should allow all the memory to work at full (192-bit) speed, unlike the 2GB version, but because the memory management is handled in drivers, I wonder if the 3GB would actually be utilized correctly.

Was it that Skyrim 4xAA result posted a few days ago that got you thinking about the 6870???

Not sure which result your referring to. But I have seen that Skyrim runs much better on a 2GB card.

 

[Termie]

Not sure which result your referring to. But I have seen that Skyrim runs much better on a 2GB card.

This one: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=33860170&postcount=17

Honestly, though, keep in mind that for most games, a 7950 will not be quite 2x as fast as a 6870, but will still be a nice upgrade.

 

[MentalIlness]

I do remember seeing that now. It wasn't the motivation to upgrade though. However, I believe ill see significant gains in Skyrim based on this chart.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I do remember seeing that now. It wasn't the motivation to upgrade though. However, I believe ill see significant gains in Skyrim based on this chart.

When is this chart from because AMD has seen some driver improvements in skyrim lately. Something looks funky in the AMD numbers there because the 7870 and 7870OC are basically the same.

 

[Termie]

When is this chart from because AMD has seen some driver improvements in skyrim lately. Something looks funky in the AMD numbers there because the 7870 and 7870OC are basically the same.

That's from the 7870 review. New numbers from the 660Ti review show improvements for AMD's cards (all cards actually), but the dire situation for 1GB cards remains. I chose the 7870 review because it still included the 6870. The point is, at 1920x1200, Skyrim is CPU-limited unless you have a 1GB card.

 

[RussianSensation]

I have decided to choose between the GTX 670 FTW and the HD 7950.And I do not overclock GPU's. Would a 3 GB GTX 660 FTW have any type of advantage over the 2 GB model ?

EDIT: Updated OP.

I just read your post more carefully:

"Decided to go with one of the above cards, because in January I plan on going with a 1440p monitor."

You are looking at the wrong card then period. GTX670 gets smoked by HD7970 Ghz edition at high resolution and those are now going for $430.

2560x1440 ideally requires 2 GPUs, but for single GPU, GTX670 is far behind the HD7970 Ghz.

For SKYRIM with or without mods, at 2560x1440/1600, GTX670 is so far behind, it's not even close:

and with ENB Mods: http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2012/test-nvidia-geforce-gtx-660-ti/24/

2560x1600 8AA
GTX670 = 47.2 fps (100%)
GTX680 = 52.6 fps
HD7970 Ghz = 63.9 fps (+35%)

If you are seriously considering 2560x1440 monitor, I'd only look at the GTX670 if you want to go SLI later. Stay FAR away from GTX660Ti 3GB models for 2560x1440. Even an 880mhz $320 HD7950 will beat them at that res.

 

[MentalIlness]

Russian

Yea I see your point now as well. I was browsing Microcenter and they have 7970's in stock in the Rockville MD store for right around $400.

But truth be told though, Id rather go with Nvidia this time since it has been a while since I have had Nvidia. If the GTX 680 was closer to the 7970 price at Micro, id probably splurge a little and just grab it.

But I doubt Id find a GTX 680 for anywhere near $400-$450.

EDIT: And yes, I'd like to run mods on Skyrim as well. I just haven't yet because of the 1GB card limitation.

 

[MentalIlness]

Oh, and I don't need a "special" version with aftermarket cooling. Reference would fit me just fine since I don't overclock gpu's anyway.

Here are the 7970's at Microcenter I was looking at. Just not sure of the brands.
http://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.phtml?Ntt=7970&submit.x=0&submit.y=0

And the GTX 680's
http://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.phtml?Ntt=gtx+680&submit.x=0&submit.y=0

By the way, Why didn't Nvidia release a GTX 3xx series ? They went from GTX 200's to GTX 400's, then 500's and 600's.

 

[RussianSensation]

I am not a fan of the reference HD7970 cooler. It's not quiet. If you don't care, you can set up a custom fan profile to try to make it quieter. It's amazing value vs. the 680. For $368 Visiontek gets Lifetime Limited Warranty (Registration Required). None of those 680s make any sense to me. Like I said a $370 card that = GTX680 at 2560x1440/1600 (which is what you'll be gaming at shortly). So why would you pay $130+ extra for the 680?

If you want to save $, grab a GTX670. GTX680 is a total waste of $ right now.

Also, MC charges tax, right? So you may be better off buying online. If you want to stick with NV this round, Gigabyte GTX670 looks good. It pretty much gives GTX680 performance for $100 less because of the way GPU Boost works on Kepler.

 

[MajorBrass]

I recently upgraded from the ATI 6870 to EVGA 670 4GB Video RAM version. I was not blown away by the difference but there definately was a very noticable improvement in smootheness and speed in BF3. It is as if the in-game air is less dense allowing me to move faster.

 

[MentalIlness]

Since the HD 7850's have 2 GB of memory, would HD 7850 Crossfire be worth it ? Would be better than a GTX 680 or HD 7970 id imagine.

Thoughts ?

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/47...b_in_crossfire_video_card_review/index14.html

EDIT: Can a HD 7870 run in Crossfire with a HD 7850 ? Like a HD 6870 can run with a HD 6850 ?

 

[Termie]

Since the HD 7850's have 2 GB of memory, would HD 7850 Crossfire be worth it ? Would be better than a GTX 680 or HD 7970 id imagine.

Thoughts ?

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/47...b_in_crossfire_video_card_review/index14.html

EDIT: Can a HD 7870 run in Crossfire with a HD 7850 ? Like a HD 6870 can run with a HD 6850 ?

Crossfire on the 7000 series is really unproven - forum users here have had trouble with it. I'd stay away from that as an initial purchase. At most, I'd plan on going crossfire in the future, in which case a 7850 is not a sufficient upgrade from a 6870. I assume you can frankenfire a 7850 and 7870, but doing so never really makes sense unless you get a crazy deal on the more powerful card.

 

[raghu78]

OP since you mention that you will be getting a 2560 x 1440 monitor get a HD 7950 or HD 7970. clock for clock HD 7950 is 3 - 5% slower than HD 7970. With voltage tweaking you can overclock to 1.15 Ghz speeds. so in terms of price perf its better.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5476/amd-radeon-7950-review/18

Metro 2033 1920 x 1200 Very High AAA

XFX HD 7950 (900) - 56
HD 7970 (925) - 60.5
XFX HD 7950 (1050) - 63

One of the best HD 7950 cards is Sapphire HD 7950 Vapor-X. HD 7970 PCB with 8pin and 6 pin power. DUAL BIOS with the 2nd BIOS running at 950 Mhz boost speeds. comes with vapor-x cooler used in the Sapphire HD 7970 TOXIC. price USD 330.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814202003

put an auto notify and grab the card when its back in stock.

 

[RussianSensation]

Since the HD 7850's have 2 GB of memory, would HD 7850 Crossfire be worth it ? Would be better than a GTX 680 or HD 7970 id imagine.

EDIT: Can a HD 7870 run in Crossfire with a HD 7850 ? Like a HD 6870 can run with a HD 6850 ?

You can get HD7870 in CF for less than a single 680. Or you can start off with a single HD7950 and add a 2nd one later when prices drop even lower. GTX680 is the biggest waste of $ this generation amongst all the cards at current prices imo.

 

[MentalIlness]

Well like I said, I dont overclock video cards. So a factory overclock would be a plus. And I seriously don't know why, But I have "always" preferred reference cooled cards. Noise and that type of thing doesn't phase me at all.

 

[raghu78]

Well like I said, I dont overclock video cards. So a factory overclock would be a plus. And I seriously don't know why, But I have "always" preferred reference cooled cards. Noise and that type of thing doesn't phase me at all.

the reference HD 7950 cooler is just not a good option. Its not only loud but also not good at cooling the GPU effectively and maintaining low temps. So get the fastest factory clocked custom HD 7950. Sapphire HD 7950 Vapor-X runs at 950 Mhz boost speeds and is one of the best cooler designs. sells for USD 330.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814202003

 

[RussianSensation]

Well like I said, I dont overclock video cards. So a factory overclock would be a plus. And I seriously don't know why, But I have "always" preferred reference cooled cards. Noise and that type of thing doesn't phase me at all.

What makes it so difficult to make a recommendation for you is because you don't overclock and because you plan to go from 1080P to 1440P soon. For single GPUs, none of the GTX670/680/7970 is really good enough for 2560x1440 with AA without overclocking. Most of the guys running that type of screen either use FXAA or have HD7970 @ 1300+ on water, or more commonly dual cards such as GTX670/680 SLI/ HD7950/7970 CF.

Think about it:

1920x1080 vs. 1280x800 = 102% more pixels
2560x1440 vs. 1920x1080 = 78% more pixels

You can't just go from 1080P to 2560x1440/1600 with no serious performance hit. On the dual-GPU side, without overclocking HD7850 will not be much faster than a $430 HD7970 Ghz edition at that resolution, but then you have to deal with Cross-fire scaling. Also, because you won't buy the 2560x1440 monitor by end of the year/early next year, by that point HD8000 series is probably not that far away either.

I think if you don't overclock, HD7870 CF is the bare minimum for that resolution at smooth gameplay. Otherwise, a single HD7970 Ghz Edition is the next best option.

A stock HD7970 Ghz Edition is 79% faster than HD7850 (97% / 54%). CF doesn't have 100% scaling. No point in getting HD7850 CF against 1 7970Ghz for that rez. The problem is there are 0 reference HD7970 Ghz Edition cards. You can only get an after-market one.

I think you should reconsider overclocking. You overclocked your FX CPU, why not a GPU? It's free. All it takes is MSI Afterburner and a good cooler on the 7970. Look at HD7970 @ 1200mhz. It's 30% faster than a GTX670 and 96% faster than HD7850 for close to your intended resolution. This is why HD7850 CF doesn't make any sense at all. Even if you overclock them, they may be 20% faster than HD7970 @ 1200mhz but then you have CF that won't work perfectly all the time.

 

[MentalIlness]

Thanks Russian. Really informative post.

To be honest, I have heard bad things about Sapphires RMA department. Which kind of worries me a little, I have never had a Sapphire card before though.
But brands I would prefer to avoid are, Diamond, HIS, Powercolor and Visiontek.

What about two of these...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121624

Or this....
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121560

I have had several XFX cards in the past with no problems or needing to RMA or anything. The last AMD card I had before that was from Connect 3D which was a X1800 XL. I have never had any Nvidia card other than EVGA.

So yea, the brands I have owned has been

EVGA
XFX
Connect3D

Would like to try ASUS to be honest.