Which Component Combo To Get?

49erinnc

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2004
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Okay, here's the situation....

I'm pi$$ poor but will have a little bit of money to upgrade my current rig. I am on a VERY tight budget so I simply MUST stay under $400, though I'd love to stay well below that price if possible. My current rig is as follows:

Athlon XP 2200+ (133FSB)
9600 Pro
Standard 17" MAG CRT (can really only use it at 1024x768 without issues).

I'm primarily wanting to upgrade for gaming purposes. I don't really have a lot of problems gaming with my current system but I could certainly use a couple minimal upgrades within my tight budget. I pretty much have come up with 4 choices that I'm deciding between and would love everyone's opinion.

Combo 1: 19" CRT Flat Screen from MAG ($190 shipped) + Athlon 2600+ (could actually run my PC2700 memory in tune with the 333 FSB) ($85 shipped) for a total of $275. I would however be forced to keep using my 9600 Pro.

Combo 2: Same CRT above + either 9800 Pro/Aopen 5900XT/Gainward 5700 Ultra "FX PowerPack". With the 9800P I'm at $385 total...$364 total with 5900XT and $372 total with 5700 Ultra.

Combo 3: Just be content playing games with my current 17" monitor at 1024x768 and get one of the above video cards and a Athlon XP 2800+ CPU. Prices would range from $287-$308 which is nice.

Combo 4: Keep my current rig but just get a Gainward FX 6800 non-ultra (PowerPack) which Newegg has for $309. I don't want to really be CPU limited and I will likely only be able to appreciate this card at 1024x768.

What would you guys do, provided there were no other options? Also, of the 3 mid-range cards I mentioned, does the 9800 Pro stand head and shoulders above the other two? Curious if leaving a 9600 Pro for the 5700 Ultra or 5900XT is going to be worth the cost.

Thanks!!!
 

DragonFire

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
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What would you guys do, provided there were no other options?

I would try my hardest to get all 3 by spending a whole day on eBay. A lot of 9800 Pro's floating around for $100-150. Saw a Athlon XP 2400+ going for $50 with only 16mins left on the bid.

Or I would try overclocking the hell out of the 2200+ and get the monitor and 9800 pro.
 

49erinnc

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2004
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My 2200+ is without a doubt a pathetic overclocker and I have a 3200+ rated (non factory) fan on it. I cannot push the FSB past 144MHz without serious boot issues. So no matter what, I won't be able to run my memory at it's maximum speed unless I get at least a 2500+ Barton (which is why I wouldn't get a 2400+.)

As for Ebay, I simply do not like buying used hardware. Most of the New In Box 9800 Pros on Ebay aren't really any cheaper than what I can get on Newegg. The Newegg prices on CPU's are very reasonable as well. I can get a brand new (OEM) 2500+ for just $79 which isn't too bad.

After checking out the Hot Buys forum, I came across a X800Pro that Dell is selling for like $336. I'm almost wondering if I should just get that card and live with my current CPU and monitor until Christmas, when I can probably receive a new monitor/CPU as gifts.

I'd still like to hear some other opinions on this. And I'm also still curious if the 5900XT/5700 Ultra are really worth the jump up from a 9600Pro. And if the 9800Pro is much better than those two?
 

TStep

Platinum Member
Feb 16, 2003
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What motherboard do you have?

Since you want to buy new, have you looked at the previews for the nVidia 6600GT? $200 retail price for at or better than 9800pro performance.

Personally if your motherboard is good, I would:

Sell 2200+ ($40??), 9600pro ($80??) plus your $400 gives you $520.

Buy the monitor that you like since the rest of the system will only look as good as this single component. You said it will cost you $190, so this leaves $330. If you overclock, get a 2500+ or better for around $80, leaving you with $250.

For $30 more than your budget ($283??), the 6800 looks decent and comes with Farcry I believe. Sell Farcry, and you are where you want to be.
 

49erinnc

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2004
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Originally posted by: TStep
What motherboard do you have?

Since you want to buy new, have you looked at the previews for the nVidia 6600GT? $200 retail price for at or better than 9800pro performance.

Personally if your motherboard is good, I would:

Sell 2200+ ($40??), 9600pro ($80??) plus your $400 gives you $520.

Buy the monitor that you like since the rest of the system will only look as good as this single component. You said it will cost you $190, so this leaves $330. If you overclock, get a 2500+ or better for around $80, leaving you with $250.

For $30 more than your budget ($283??), the 6800 looks decent and comes with Farcry I believe. Sell Farcry, and you are where you want to be.


Those are good options but I was hoping to keep my current components so that I could build a low-mid range rig as a secondary system for my wife to use as I accumulate more components via upgrades on my primary rig. Otherwise, I would definitely sell them in order to raise my upgrade budget.

My motherboard is a ASRock K7S8XE. I'm very happy with my motherboard but I'm pretty sure it's the reason for my poor CPU overclocking because you can't increase voltage. I'd just assume buy a 2500+ Barton which would get me to the FSB speeds I need, rather than upgrade my motherboard.

I hadn't considered the 6600GT. I just assumed it was inferior to the 9800 Pro on most benchmarks. I'd still like to know a little about about how the 5900XT/5700ULtra are regarded by the regulars here.

The more I look at the deal Dell has going for the X800Pro, the more I like it. By doing that, I would at least ensure myself of being future-proof as far as video cards go and I could still use it on my current system. Then I could just stick it out until Christmas and get the monitor/faster CPU then. Just not sure what I want to do to be honest. I just beat Doom3 the other day so I at least have a little time to think about it before the next game (HL2) that I want to play comes out.
 

superkdogg

Senior member
Jul 9, 2004
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I'm not familiar with your motherboard, but it's based on the sis 748 chipset, right? The reason it holds back your oc and causes boot problems could be the lack of a PCI/AGP lock. Your hard drive(s) don't like the increase of the bus speed. If you're not afraid of resetting CMOS, you could try going right to 166, which would then reset the AGP/PCI bus values to default. It could work, but it would be a long shot.

As for which components to buy, it depends on what you'll be doing in the future, IMHO. If you'll be standing pat with whatever you end up buying, you may not want the 6800 because you'll stay CPU limited for quite a long time and that card would never spread its wings. Whereas a 9800P and a CPU upgrade would allow you to play almost any game at 10x7 for quite a while. You'd be sacrificing super-high resolutions, but end up with a better balanced system. You'd also be able to use AA/AF to make up some of the IQ difference.

You can also probably find a better deal on a monitor. I know that you don't want to go used, but my philosophy was always beggars can't be choosers. I grabbed a refurbed 17" monitor from Accureateit.com for under $100-couldn't be happier. It displays up to 16x12 at 70 Hz. The only drawback is that is says Compaq on it-it's generally against my beliefs to buy big-box junk.

If I were you, I'd try the bump to 166 FSB first. If you have a Tbred B core, it could work (you do have PC2700 memory, right?). If that works, your CPU issues are substantially improved. Then focus on which you want more-1. A Graphics card that will fit great with future upgrades, but in your current configuration is likely to be CPU limited [translation= may not perform much better than a 9800 Pro]. or 2. A monitor that will allow your screen to show resolutions that your new 9800 Pro may not play smoothly at.

It's actually kind of a catch 22. I'd pretty much rule out the CPU upgrade though, because either vid card will add more to your games than any affordable CPU.

I basically ruled out the other gfx card options, because value wise the 9800P can't be touched at high IQ settings by anything not called 6800.

See this review. It's not apples-apples, but *pretend* you're considering a x800 pro instead of the regular 6800. You'll see that with slower cpu's (not that yours sucks, but it's no 3700+) the best video cards come down to earth.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/x800_pro_athlon_xp/default.asp

I guess if it I were you, I'd eventually settle on the 9800P (MSI version @ Newegg has nice bundle, great price and usually XT core) and either a monitor or CPU depending on if the OC works.

If you're pretty sure that a CPU is in your future, grab a next gen video card.
 

superkdogg

Senior member
Jul 9, 2004
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Short response on secondary question.

The 5700 Ultra is hardly any better than the 9600 Pro. Xbitlabs did an overclocking review and the pro is really close if not leading in most games. The 5900XT adds enough cost that you are better going with the 9800 Pro. It's a better card in many peoples' views than the full-fledged 5900 Ultra.

You may also consider selling your 9600 Pro and putting a really cheap card in your secondary rig that you hope to build. If your wife only does office stuff, email, etc. like mine does literally any video card will do. You could add $50-60 to your budget that way. If she (or you) want to play games on that rig though, keep the 9600P it's a great card for the money.
 

49erinnc

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2004
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Awesome replies superkdogg...exactly the type of info I was hoping for.

At the risk of getting off forum topic, I'm interested in what you mentioned about my motherboard. And yes, it's the SiS 748 chipeset. Aside from the RAID, this is what I have (this is the "+" version):

My Motheboard

And this is my exact CPU

And yes, my memory is PC2700, running at PC2100 speeds. If I can succesfully overclock to 166 FSB, I'd be perfectly content with only upgrading my video card and monitor. But I don't want to risk screwing anything up. I have manually bumped up the FSB within the BIOS but like I said, I bottomed out in the mid 150's.

I'm thinking my best bet for now will be to go with the 9800Pro and keep my 9600P in my secondary computer. OR get the X800P through the Dell special and sell the 9600P to make up a little bit of the cash, which I could put towards the new monitor. My wife has no need for a 9600P. She only uses the computer for Excel/Word and Solitaire. A cheap 16MB card would probably serve her purposes. My ONLY concern with the 9800Pro is how future-proof it is. I need it to carry me through probably next Spring if possible.
 

superkdogg

Senior member
Jul 9, 2004
640
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It sounds like you're on the right track. You have enough information to make the informed decision that best suits you. If you're getting a new CPU soon, that would be a boon for you. Since you'd need a big CPU upgrade to see a difference between the better graphics cards that you're considering, I am still recommending the 9800 Pro. It may not be as future-proof as you'd like, but if you're criteria is "will it still be usable in Spring 2005" my opinion is yes, very. As long as you don't insist on playing @ 16x12 with AA/AF, this card will suit almost all needs. IF you are a person who plays really high resolutions, the 6800 NU is not your best choice either-it dies performance wise above 12x10. If I were you, I'd go this way:

9800P= ~$200 Newegg-The MSI is reportedly a good overclocker, capable of XT speeds and more, but which card is up to you. The 'Egg is my favorite eTailer, but others have a store of choice as well.

Save your other money for anything else ATM. The Pro will play any game on your current monitor's resolutions. To get a really beneficial CPU upgrade (3200+, etc.) would necessitate PC3200 ram. You could only go up to a 2800+ with PC2700. That wouldn't be all that much better than your current setup. Don't overestimate your current OC. I just did the math, and bumping your FSB to 145 increases your clockspeed to 1.957 Ghz. That's not bad for a TBred @ stock voltages. The 2800+ runs @ 2.08. Obviously the cache and 333 FSB would be helpful as well, but I maintain that the bigger bottleneck in your system as far as games go is the video card.

In a nutshell: My research says that without a CPU/Memory and or Motherboard (to get access to multipliers and vCore & OC your current CPU) upgrade, you will benefit most from a better video card. To really take advantage of a top-notch video card, you'd need to have the CPU/Memory upgrade anyway or find a way to OC the heck out of your current one. And since a new monitor would basically allow you to have access to resolutions that a last generation video card can't play, it may not be sensible right now (you could of course buy one, because monitors are very future-proof). That's why I say a 9800 Pro right now and save up for an A64, or something later on. To me, it doesn't make sense to buy a monitor to play 16x12 games when to do so would be over my video subsystem's head. Instead, I'd just play at 12x10 or even 10x7 with eye candy on. As newer A64's enter the market, the price will come down. (Especially watch for good deals on PC3200 or 3500 memory, since an upgrade to a 200 FSB or greater CPU is in your future.) I am always broke too, but manage to keep a nice 2nd tier system together by shopping smart and keeping my upgrade path open.

I am currently running a P4-Mobile 1.6 Chip ($43-forum here) @ 2.4 Ghz [200 FSB], a Gigabyte 1000IPE Pro ($50 Newegg refurb), 4x256 PC3200 Memory (<$200-started with 512 and scavanged to 1 GB), and an MX 440 @ 370/590 ($35 Newegg refurb). The main parts of my rig were acquired for well under $350 through patience and good deals, as well as some risks I was willing to take.

I too am upgrading my video card and while I accept that the 6800 is a better card, it is not 50% better and it does cost 50% more, so I think the 9800P is my best bet because that $100 really matters to me. The 6800 does have one major advantage so far: it is unquestionably better @ Doom3. Keep that in mind if it matters to you (I don't care for D3-another reason that I'm not going with it).