which amd cpu?

[joecool]

I'm upgrading my rig from an ECS K7S5A/Athlon XP 1800/2x Crucial 256MB PC2100 RAM. I've decided on the Abit NF7-S mobo and 2x Corsair XMS PC3200 LLPT 256MB RAM. My problem is, I can't decide on which CPU to get. I've been leaning strongly towards the XP 2400 but now I'm starting to wonder if I should go with the 2200 (cheaper), or the 2600 (official 333 FSB speed). Here's the arguments for each, as I see it:

2200 - cheap, can be OC'ed to perform like a 2400 (requires that it is multiplier unlocked & can run at higher FSB speeds)
2400 - not too expensive, def. multiplier unlocked, proven OC'er.
2600 - guaranteed to work at 333 FSB.

So, what do you guys think? Which part has the best price/performance ratio? Also, if I get the 2400 am I guaranteed to get a Tbred-B?

Thanks in advance,

Joe

 

[BigJ]

Get an Athlon XP 2100+ and a decent heatsink, set Vcore to 1.75v, set FSB to 166, then go play UT2k3

Seriously, the 2100+ Tbred looks to be the processor to get on a budget right now for overclocking. And with that extra money you save over getting a 2400+ or 2600+, put it towards maybe 1GB of ram instead of 512 . You really shouldn't have a problem getting it to at least 2.2ghz.

Also, all Tbreds 2400+ and beyond are guaranteed Tbred Bs

 

[KidChaos]

If overclocking, get the AMD XP 2100+ TBred-B OEM, thermalright heatsink, YS-Tech Fan. Very good choice of motherboard. I've seen two cases (2 out of 2) of Corsair LL memory not getting along with NF7-S - wouldn't boot at all. I would go with the normal Corsair XMS PC3200 CAS2 memory modules. The LL modules were mostly meant for those who don't want to fiddle with BIOS settings when setting up a DualDDR (i.e. nforce2, Granite Bay, etc.) system - not yer case as ya will be overclocking.

 

[joecool]

Originally posted by: KidChaos
If overclocking, get the AMD XP 2100+ TBred-B OEM, thermalright heatsink, YS-Tech Fan. Very good choice of motherboard. I've seen two cases (2 out of 2) of Corsair LL memory not getting along with NF7-S - wouldn't boot at all. I would go with the normal Corsair XMS PC3200 CAS2 memory modules. The LL modules were mostly meant for those who don't want to fiddle with BIOS settings when setting up a DualDDR (i.e. nforce2, Granite Bay, etc.) system - not yer case as ya will be overclocking.

ok, so i'm game to save a few buck$ on the RAM, but can I really expect 2400+ performance out of the 2100+? I'd hate to spend all that ca$h on a new mobo & high-end ram but have a cpu only marginally better than what i've got now ... ! anybody else have any thoughts on this one?

also, does anyone know if the NF7-S uses the on-die temp sensing of the tbred?

 

[KidChaos]

ok, so i'm game to save a few buck$ on the RAM, but can I really expect 2400+ performance out of the 2100+?

You could easily get the 2100+ TBred-B to outperform a 2800+ and faster simply by increasing the FSB (few other adjustments, vcore increase for example).

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: KidChaos
If overclocking, get the AMD XP 2100+ TBred-B OEM, thermalright heatsink, YS-Tech Fan. Very good choice of motherboard. I've seen two cases (2 out of 2) of Corsair LL memory not getting along with NF7-S - wouldn't boot at all. I would go with the normal Corsair XMS PC3200 CAS2 memory modules. The LL modules were mostly meant for those who don't want to fiddle with BIOS settings when setting up a DualDDR (i.e. nforce2, Granite Bay, etc.) system - not yer case as ya will be overclocking.

The boot issues are cause by the low timings by default on the memory. The memory is set to boot at 2-2-2-5 1T compared to 2-3-3-6 at DDR 400 with the normal XMS. What you need to do is flash the BIOS with a newer revision and set the timings in the BIOS by using an older generic piece of slower ram. Can be a little bit of a hastle for the uninformed, but I don't mind for the performance thats guaranteed by 1GB of TwinX LL . They are meant for the people that want more aggressive timings to be used, not because they don't want to have to fiddle with them.

 

[KidChaos]

Originally posted by: BigJ2078

Originally posted by: KidChaos
If overclocking, get the AMD XP 2100+ TBred-B OEM, thermalright heatsink, YS-Tech Fan. Very good choice of motherboard. I've seen two cases (2 out of 2) of Corsair LL memory not getting along with NF7-S - wouldn't boot at all. I would go with the normal Corsair XMS PC3200 CAS2 memory modules. The LL modules were mostly meant for those who don't want to fiddle with BIOS settings when setting up a DualDDR (i.e. nforce2, Granite Bay, etc.) system - not yer case as ya will be overclocking.

The boot issues are cause by the low timings by default on the memory. The memory is set to boot at 2-2-2-5 1T compared to 2-3-3-6 at DDR 400 with the normal XMS. What you need to do is flash the BIOS with a newer revision and set the timings in the BIOS by using an older generic piece of slower ram. Can be a little bit of a hastle for the uninformed, but I don't mind for the performance thats guaranteed by 1GB of TwinX LL . They are meant for the people that want more aggressive timings to be used, not because they don't want to have to fiddle with them.

Yeah, i agree. Here's some info about the target market. Here's my source:

Corsair are trying to target two not dissimilar markets with this new range. Firstly, the user who doesen't want to play with settings in the BIOS yet still achieve optimum performance. As Corsair put it, Plug'n Frag technology. The other group are the people looking for the guarentee of certain timings. Much like we look to the guarentee of a certain bus speed with the Corsair XMS brand, people would like the security of the timings. Seeing also as the memory bus speeds are getting ridiculous, a guarentee on timings was the next logical step.

As Corsair themselves said to me, people who are buying Corsair know what they are doing, and so will likely know the difference between their CAS latencies and their RAS/CAS delays. The LL series looks to target those who are on the fringe. They know what to look for in a performing system and they know Corsair have the reputation of performance, yet they would like to simply plug in the memory and start fragging.

So, in short, this is not targeted at the overclocker.

 

[calvink]

You can't overclock with that motherboard. I have one of those. You have the choice of 100fsb or 133fsb. (100/100, 100/133, 133/133). I'm pretty sure there isn't away to change the multiplier either with that board, and there is no control over voltage. I suggest getting a new motherboard, and overclocking a 2100+ or a 1700+, otherwise get a 2400+. That board only supports upto 2600+, so a 2800+ is out of the question. Calvin

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: KidChaos

Originally posted by: BigJ2078

Originally posted by: KidChaos
If overclocking, get the AMD XP 2100+ TBred-B OEM, thermalright heatsink, YS-Tech Fan. Very good choice of motherboard. I've seen two cases (2 out of 2) of Corsair LL memory not getting along with NF7-S - wouldn't boot at all. I would go with the normal Corsair XMS PC3200 CAS2 memory modules. The LL modules were mostly meant for those who don't want to fiddle with BIOS settings when setting up a DualDDR (i.e. nforce2, Granite Bay, etc.) system - not yer case as ya will be overclocking.

The boot issues are cause by the low timings by default on the memory. The memory is set to boot at 2-2-2-5 1T compared to 2-3-3-6 at DDR 400 with the normal XMS. What you need to do is flash the BIOS with a newer revision and set the timings in the BIOS by using an older generic piece of slower ram. Can be a little bit of a hastle for the uninformed, but I don't mind for the performance thats guaranteed by 1GB of TwinX LL . They are meant for the people that want more aggressive timings to be used, not because they don't want to have to fiddle with them.

Yeah, i agree. Here's some info about the target market. Here's my source:

Corsair are trying to target two not dissimilar markets with this new range. Firstly, the user who doesen't want to play with settings in the BIOS yet still achieve optimum performance. As Corsair put it, Plug'n Frag technology. The other group are the people looking for the guarentee of certain timings.Much like we look to the guarentee of a certain bus speed with the Corsair XMS brand, people would like the security of the timings. Seeing also as the memory bus speeds are getting ridiculous, a guarentee on timings was the next logical step.

As Corsair themselves said to me, people who are buying Corsair know what they are doing, and so will likely know the difference between their CAS latencies and their RAS/CAS delays. The LL series looks to target those who are on the fringe. They know what to look for in a performing system and they know Corsair have the reputation of performance, yet they would like to simply plug in the memory and start fragging

So, in short, this is not targeted at the overclocker.

It's more then targeted at the overclocker Guaranteed timings at a certain speed compared to normal chips usually means higher quality chips overall. Those higher quality chips should be higher yielding chips then normal. I think you see where my reasoning is going And, most likely, people aren't going to run much higher then 200mhz FSB while overclocking Athlon CPUs, so they fit in just right. Don't believe me? Ask Chizow and myself why we got these chips

 

[joecool]

Originally posted by: BigJ2078

Originally posted by: KidChaos
If overclocking, get the AMD XP 2100+ TBred-B OEM, thermalright heatsink, YS-Tech Fan. Very good choice of motherboard. I've seen two cases (2 out of 2) of Corsair LL memory not getting along with NF7-S - wouldn't boot at all. I would go with the normal Corsair XMS PC3200 CAS2 memory modules. The LL modules were mostly meant for those who don't want to fiddle with BIOS settings when setting up a DualDDR (i.e. nforce2, Granite Bay, etc.) system - not yer case as ya will be overclocking.

The boot issues are cause by the low timings by default on the memory. The memory is set to boot at 2-2-2-5 1T compared to 2-3-3-6 at DDR 400 with the normal XMS. What you need to do is flash the BIOS with a newer revision and set the timings in the BIOS by using an older generic piece of slower ram. Can be a little bit of a hastle for the uninformed, but I don't mind for the performance thats guaranteed by 1GB of TwinX LL . They are meant for the people that want more aggressive timings to be used, not because they don't want to have to fiddle with them.

man, that sounds like a major hassle! what's the deal? why won't the board boot with the more aggressive SPD timings if you can set it manually in the bios and have it work? anyway, that sounds like something i don't want to mess with. are you sure it just won't work with the LL sticks, even with the updated bios?

one more question - how big a performance diff is there when going from 512MB to 1GB RAM? i'm really more of a casual user, i like to dink with the hardward but don't wind up pushing it that much aside from in benchmarks.

-joe

 

[tbates757]

Originally posted by: calvink
You can't overclock with that motherboard. I have one of those. You have the choice of 100fsb or 133fsb. (100/100, 100/133, 133/133). I'm pretty sure there isn't away to change the multiplier either with that board, and there is no control over voltage. I suggest getting a new motherboard, and overclocking a 2100+ or a 1700+, otherwise get a 2400+. That board only supports upto 2600+, so a 2800+ is out of the question. Calvin

Hi, you're a newbie, sorry.

 

[KidChaos]

are you sure it just won't work with the LL sticks, even with the updated bios?

Ya may be able to find someone with a working combination of the two at the nforcershq forum.

how big a performance diff is there when going from 512MB to 1GB RAM? i'm really more of a casual user, i like to dink with the hardward but don't wind up pushing it that much aside from in benchmarks.

512MB is sufficient for the casual user - no performance gain in those cases.

 

[calvink]

Originally posted by: tbates757

Originally posted by: calvink
You can't overclock with that motherboard. I have one of those. You have the choice of 100fsb or 133fsb. (100/100, 100/133, 133/133). I'm pretty sure there isn't away to change the multiplier either with that board, and there is no control over voltage. I suggest getting a new motherboard, and overclocking a 2100+ or a 1700+, otherwise get a 2400+. That board only supports upto 2600+, so a 2800+ is out of the question. Calvin

Hi, you're a newbie, sorry.

haha, yeah I agree that I am a newbie, at posting. I just noticed that he's upgrading to a different board. well with his ecs board, what i said is true.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: joecool

Originally posted by: BigJ2078

Originally posted by: KidChaos
If overclocking, get the AMD XP 2100+ TBred-B OEM, thermalright heatsink, YS-Tech Fan. Very good choice of motherboard. I've seen two cases (2 out of 2) of Corsair LL memory not getting along with NF7-S - wouldn't boot at all. I would go with the normal Corsair XMS PC3200 CAS2 memory modules. The LL modules were mostly meant for those who don't want to fiddle with BIOS settings when setting up a DualDDR (i.e. nforce2, Granite Bay, etc.) system - not yer case as ya will be overclocking.

The boot issues are cause by the low timings by default on the memory. The memory is set to boot at 2-2-2-5 1T compared to 2-3-3-6 at DDR 400 with the normal XMS. What you need to do is flash the BIOS with a newer revision and set the timings in the BIOS by using an older generic piece of slower ram. Can be a little bit of a hastle for the uninformed, but I don't mind for the performance thats guaranteed by 1GB of TwinX LL . They are meant for the people that want more aggressive timings to be used, not because they don't want to have to fiddle with them.

man, that sounds like a major hassle! what's the deal? why won't the board boot with the more aggressive SPD timings if you can set it manually in the bios and have it work? anyway, that sounds like something i don't want to mess with. are you sure it just won't work with the LL sticks, even with the updated bios?

one more question - how big a performance diff is there when going from 512MB to 1GB RAM? i'm really more of a casual user, i like to dink with the hardward but don't wind up pushing it that much aside from in benchmarks.

-joe

Well, lets put it this way. My Corsair PC3500 XMS 2-3-3-6 1T memory booted up fine in my board. The TwinX with 2-2-2-5 1T gave nothing but posting errors. So I'm guessing its isolated to the LL sticks. But if Epox decides to update the BIOS they ship their motherboards with, it won't be a problem.

For a casual user, you won't notice a difference b/w 512mb or 1gb of Ram.

Btw, I think I mistated what I said. The board WOULD boot up with the LL sticks once the newer BIOS was flashed to my board.

John

 

[tbates757]

Originally posted by: calvink

Originally posted by: tbates757

Originally posted by: calvink
You can't overclock with that motherboard. I have one of those. You have the choice of 100fsb or 133fsb. (100/100, 100/133, 133/133). I'm pretty sure there isn't away to change the multiplier either with that board, and there is no control over voltage. I suggest getting a new motherboard, and overclocking a 2100+ or a 1700+, otherwise get a 2400+. That board only supports upto 2600+, so a 2800+ is out of the question. Calvin

Hi, you're a newbie, sorry.

haha, yeah I agree that I am a newbie, at posting. I just noticed that he's upgrading to a different board. well with his ecs board, what i said is true.

lol, i see what you were saying. hehe