I'm trying to decide between the P4 2.26, 2.4A and 2.4B which are relatively cheap at $115-$135. They all have a 133/533 FSB which should allow me to overclock using standard PC2700 or PC3200, to get the FSB to 166MHz and hopefully even to 200MHz. My question is which of these CPUs would have the best overclocking potential. It seems like the Northwoods (2.26, 2.4B) hava a small performance advantage over Prescott (2.4A), but the prescott 2.4A has been proclaimed by HardOCP article to overclock well beyond 3GHz on air cooling, and possibly up to 3.7GHz using exotic cooling. I would like to konw if any of the two Northwood P4 I'm considering will allow me to do the same. Which would you choose (and why ) ?
Which 533 FSB Pentium 4 CPU is best for overclocking ?
- Thread starter user1234
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Zap
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- Oct 13, 1999
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I'd choose the 2.4A chip. In fact, I'm typing this message on a system containing such a chip.
Advantages are:
- Cheaper than Northwood version.
- Overclocks higher than Northwood version.
Disadvantages are:
- Runs hotter than Northwood (had mine lock once, rebooted into BIOS and CPU temp was around 80ºC).
- Some boards are voltage limited for Prescott core, so those huge overclocks some people get may not happen for you, I've tried three different 2.4A chips on five different motherboards and none POSTed higher than just over 3.5GHz, meaning none would even POST at 200MHz FSB BIOS setting. One of these boards POSTed a Celeron D 320 (MSI 865PE Platinum Neo2, basically a Prescott Celeron 2.4GHz) at 4.01GHz and another board POSTed the Celeron D 320 at 3.97GHz (Asus P4P800 Deluxe). The 2.4A is the same chip except for more cache, and wouldn't get anywhere near as high on the same boards for me. Not saying it can't be done, just YMMV so don't think that just because a few people are shouting it on some web site means it is a universal truth.
That said, I'm in no way disappointed with the 2.4A chip. $124 at Newegg for a "semi-guaranteed" 3.2GHz is pretty good, IMO.
Advantages are:
- Cheaper than Northwood version.
- Overclocks higher than Northwood version.
Disadvantages are:
- Runs hotter than Northwood (had mine lock once, rebooted into BIOS and CPU temp was around 80ºC).
- Some boards are voltage limited for Prescott core, so those huge overclocks some people get may not happen for you, I've tried three different 2.4A chips on five different motherboards and none POSTed higher than just over 3.5GHz, meaning none would even POST at 200MHz FSB BIOS setting. One of these boards POSTed a Celeron D 320 (MSI 865PE Platinum Neo2, basically a Prescott Celeron 2.4GHz) at 4.01GHz and another board POSTed the Celeron D 320 at 3.97GHz (Asus P4P800 Deluxe). The 2.4A is the same chip except for more cache, and wouldn't get anywhere near as high on the same boards for me. Not saying it can't be done, just YMMV so don't think that just because a few people are shouting it on some web site means it is a universal truth.
That said, I'm in no way disappointed with the 2.4A chip. $124 at Newegg for a "semi-guaranteed" 3.2GHz is pretty good, IMO.
I agree that even 3.2 GHz overclock would make the 2.4A a great investment at $124. What mobo do you recommend and what cooler ? Also do you know why the northwoods don't overclock as high as prescotts ? btw, the HardOCP article specifically mentiones that the authors received a lot of feedback from other people that achieved the same results, and they feel that it's very likely for anyone which follows the same guidelines to achieve these results.
i would spend a few extra bucks and go to a 2.4C. You get the advantage of Hyperthreading and a faster FSB. Your ram will be fine. Just use a 5:4 or 3:2 ratio.
Zap
Elite Member
- Oct 13, 1999
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Prescotts were designed to scale to higher speeds.
I still say take the 2.4A => 3.6GHz overclocks with a grain of salt. I see you just joined a few months ago. If you have been here longer you would have seen many posts crying about not hitting certain overclocks that other people were touting. "Oh, boo hoo, everyone else can get to ###MHz overclock on this CPU but I can't." There may be a speed that many people are getting, but in no way, shape or form does that guarantee anything. For instance, mobile Athlon XP processors "often" get to 2400MHz or higher, but there are a number of people posting here who mentioned not being able to get that high, or getting that high only on extreme voltages. Besides the three 2.4A chips I had (only have one now) I have a 2.4B. It needs over 1.70 volts to run at 3GHz, so I'm more comfortable with it at 2.81GHz on 1.60 volts because I don't want a case of "SNDS" (Sudden Northwood Death Syndrome) that has happened to other people.
This isn't to say that certain Northwood chips can't overclock nice. I have a 2.53 that is running at 3.33 on 1.60 volts. A friend of mine has a 2.53 and another one has a 2.50 (400MHz FSB), but both can barely break 3GHz. Luck of the draw. You can put luck on your side by doing research (like you are doing with this post) on what CPU type/stepping, motherboard and RAM to get. Be happy with your overclock and brag about it here, just don't come crying if it doesn't hit your "target" overclock.
Cooler... I really like the Zalman 7000-AlCu coolers. My 2.53@3.33 is using one. However, it may not be enough for the Prescotts at higher speeds because I have one on my 2.4A that locked at around 80ºC. I also have a Thermalright XP120 for, ahem, testing purposes. It is huge and possibly will not fit many motherboards and cases. My recommendation at this time (though I've never actually owned one) would be any Thermalright heatsink that can accept a 92mm fan. They have two all copper units that bolt to the motherboard, one with heatpipes. They also have the new XP90 which is similar to the XP120 in design, though taking up much less space. It is aluminum and uses 4 heatpipes. Use it with a high CFM fan on a speed controller and you should be happy with the results. I would have bought the XP90 instead of the XP120, except at the time the XP120 was available and the XP90 AFAIK wasn't even announced yet.
I still say take the 2.4A => 3.6GHz overclocks with a grain of salt. I see you just joined a few months ago. If you have been here longer you would have seen many posts crying about not hitting certain overclocks that other people were touting. "Oh, boo hoo, everyone else can get to ###MHz overclock on this CPU but I can't." There may be a speed that many people are getting, but in no way, shape or form does that guarantee anything. For instance, mobile Athlon XP processors "often" get to 2400MHz or higher, but there are a number of people posting here who mentioned not being able to get that high, or getting that high only on extreme voltages. Besides the three 2.4A chips I had (only have one now) I have a 2.4B. It needs over 1.70 volts to run at 3GHz, so I'm more comfortable with it at 2.81GHz on 1.60 volts because I don't want a case of "SNDS" (Sudden Northwood Death Syndrome) that has happened to other people.
This isn't to say that certain Northwood chips can't overclock nice. I have a 2.53 that is running at 3.33 on 1.60 volts. A friend of mine has a 2.53 and another one has a 2.50 (400MHz FSB), but both can barely break 3GHz. Luck of the draw. You can put luck on your side by doing research (like you are doing with this post) on what CPU type/stepping, motherboard and RAM to get. Be happy with your overclock and brag about it here, just don't come crying if it doesn't hit your "target" overclock.
Cooler... I really like the Zalman 7000-AlCu coolers. My 2.53@3.33 is using one. However, it may not be enough for the Prescotts at higher speeds because I have one on my 2.4A that locked at around 80ºC. I also have a Thermalright XP120 for, ahem, testing purposes. It is huge and possibly will not fit many motherboards and cases. My recommendation at this time (though I've never actually owned one) would be any Thermalright heatsink that can accept a 92mm fan. They have two all copper units that bolt to the motherboard, one with heatpipes. They also have the new XP90 which is similar to the XP120 in design, though taking up much less space. It is aluminum and uses 4 heatpipes. Use it with a high CFM fan on a speed controller and you should be happy with the results. I would have bought the XP90 instead of the XP120, except at the time the XP120 was available and the XP90 AFAIK wasn't even announced yet.
Zap
Elite Member
- Oct 13, 1999
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LOL, oldfart, if you keep "spending a few extra bucks" when does the madness end? The 2.4C OEM was in the $140 range at Newegg. For the same "few bucks extra" the 2.8E can be had, which also gives hyperthreading and a faster FSB, and IMO is more likely to hit higher MHz. Then, for a "few bucks more" you can get the Northwood 2.8C, which gives you pretty much all that, plus lower temperatures and greater compatibility. Then, for a "few bucks more" you can get the 3.2E, I think Outpost.com has a retail box plus an MSI PT880 motherboard for around $220, and a week ago (though OOS in my area) Fry's had the CPU plus an ECS 848P chipset board for $199. Oh, but for a "few bucks more..."
When everyone else was buying the mobile Athlon XP 2400+, "a few bucks more" skipped the 2500+ and made me end up with the 2600+. In my case, each jump was around $10 at the time. My overclock? Wouldn't go higher than about 2460.
I'm actually happy with my most recent purchase of a... CELERON!!! It is a Celeron D 320 (2.4GHz, 533FSB) that was a Fry's special with an FIC 865P chipset board for around $97 after tax. I may have a buyer for the motherboard for around $40-50, so the CPU will end up costing me around $50. Not bad for a CPU that I've seen POST at 4.01GHz and is currently running as stable as can be at 3.6GHz (SATA HDD holding me back).
Now, if the 2.4C was as cheap as the 2.4A...
When everyone else was buying the mobile Athlon XP 2400+, "a few bucks more" skipped the 2500+ and made me end up with the 2600+. In my case, each jump was around $10 at the time. My overclock? Wouldn't go higher than about 2460.
I'm actually happy with my most recent purchase of a... CELERON!!! It is a Celeron D 320 (2.4GHz, 533FSB) that was a Fry's special with an FIC 865P chipset board for around $97 after tax. I may have a buyer for the motherboard for around $40-50, so the CPU will end up costing me around $50. Not bad for a CPU that I've seen POST at 4.01GHz and is currently running as stable as can be at 3.6GHz (SATA HDD holding me back).
Now, if the 2.4C was as cheap as the 2.4A...
Not really. I was trying to keep him in the same price range. He is willing to spend $135. 2.4C is $146 which is worth the extra "few ($11) bucks". 2.8E is ~ $175 which is quite a bit more (extra $40).
I think the idea of going for the low FSB chip that doesn't have HT is not the best deal. The faster FSB and HT performance enhancements of a "C" chip are well worth the extra money. Mem ratios are available if your ram cant hack the high FSB.
Zebo
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- Jul 29, 2001
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user1234, that 3.7 was'nt even stable under h2o..If I remember right even 3.4 was'nt stable.
Perosnally I would'nt bother with anything other than a northwood 'C'. Even overclocked all these chips these gentlemen are talking about are slow. Here is a link of a wildly OCed CelD @3.8 getting stomped by a plain jane 3.2 prescott and a northwood is even faster.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...play/celeron-d_11.html
Then you have major heat issues with presscots based chips (see the gurus at overclcokers.com for proof of the laughing stock they are)
In the hyper budget realm there is the mobile XP's form AMD which are very attactive and a 2.4C IMO. (for overclcokers that is)
Perosnally I would'nt bother with anything other than a northwood 'C'. Even overclocked all these chips these gentlemen are talking about are slow. Here is a link of a wildly OCed CelD @3.8 getting stomped by a plain jane 3.2 prescott and a northwood is even faster.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...play/celeron-d_11.html
Then you have major heat issues with presscots based chips (see the gurus at overclcokers.com for proof of the laughing stock they are)
In the hyper budget realm there is the mobile XP's form AMD which are very attactive and a 2.4C IMO. (for overclcokers that is)
Just noticed that fry's has the 2.4A + ECS PT800CE-A mobo for $109
http://newspaperads.mercurynew...=32664&ad=1148169#
(it's in middle right side of the ad).
From your comments it looks like the best choices are 2.4C and 2.4A. The 2.4C has HT and faster FSB, but may have a little lower overclock potential, and also will probably need to run the memory out of sync with the FSB (not sure if that's really bad). The 2.4A is cheaper and may overclock higher, and probably doesn't need a high end mobo because it will most likely not exceed the 200 FSB. Also the 2.4A is hotter and consume more power (i'm not really worried about heat by itself if it still overclocks better than northwood). I can say the HT seems less important as it doesn't affect games at all. As for general performance, the northwood has an edge most of the time, but sometimes (including doom 3) the 1MB cache of the prescott helps it lead. So I would say that they're about equal if HT is not a factor.
So overall, the lower price and higher overclockability of prescott 2.4A seems a little more apealing. Comments ?
http://newspaperads.mercurynew...=32664&ad=1148169#
(it's in middle right side of the ad).
From your comments it looks like the best choices are 2.4C and 2.4A. The 2.4C has HT and faster FSB, but may have a little lower overclock potential, and also will probably need to run the memory out of sync with the FSB (not sure if that's really bad). The 2.4A is cheaper and may overclock higher, and probably doesn't need a high end mobo because it will most likely not exceed the 200 FSB. Also the 2.4A is hotter and consume more power (i'm not really worried about heat by itself if it still overclocks better than northwood). I can say the HT seems less important as it doesn't affect games at all. As for general performance, the northwood has an edge most of the time, but sometimes (including doom 3) the 1MB cache of the prescott helps it lead. So I would say that they're about equal if HT is not a factor.
So overall, the lower price and higher overclockability of prescott 2.4A seems a little more apealing. Comments ?
I'm not fixated on anything specific right now, I just want high performance for a good price. I think P4 clocked at 3GHz and higher stomp all over the fastest Athlon XP's, so if I can get a P4 for a little more than A-XP, I would prefer that - that's why I'm looking at cheap P4 which can overclock to 3GHz and beyond. I do not rule out the A64 idea, but I'm not sure if it's that much faster than P4, while being more expensive for sure. Are you saying 2.5 GHz overclock is proven for A64 2800+ ? and also, can you run the RAM at 200 MHz, assuming it cannot reach beyond that ?
Zap
Elite Member
- Oct 13, 1999
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09/16/04 11:30pm Newegg.com pricing
P4 2.26 retail
$115+2
P4 2.4A retail
$121+0
P4 2.4B OEM
$129+1
P4 2.4C OEM
$146+1
P4 2.4C retail
$154+0
P4 2.8E OEM
$173+1
P4 2.8E retail
$177+0
From 2.4A to 2.4C to 2.8E, OEM/retail... $?/121 - $147/154 - 174/177. Comparing retail box pricing difference, $33 and $23. Comparing OEM pricing (with 2.4A still retail), $26 and $27.
oldfart, looks like the 2.4C is "roughly" in between the 2.4A and 2.8E in pricing, not overwhelmingly close to the 2.4A pricing as you indicated.
Of course if user1234 lives near a Fry's and catches them on one of their loss-leader deals, then all bets off. $109 for a 2.4A, sell the motherboard and have a DIRT cheap processor. Fry's also recently had 3.2E retail box with motherboard for $199. If the motherboard can be sold for $45 then the 3.2E will cost the same as a 2.4C (both retail box).
Ahhh, the possibilities...
I think we're confusing user1234. We should carry on this discussion by PM and then when we reach a consensus we should ALL post here saying, "buy THIS chip." :laugh:
P4 2.26 retail
$115+2
P4 2.4A retail
$121+0
P4 2.4B OEM
$129+1
P4 2.4C OEM
$146+1
P4 2.4C retail
$154+0
P4 2.8E OEM
$173+1
P4 2.8E retail
$177+0
From 2.4A to 2.4C to 2.8E, OEM/retail... $?/121 - $147/154 - 174/177. Comparing retail box pricing difference, $33 and $23. Comparing OEM pricing (with 2.4A still retail), $26 and $27.
oldfart, looks like the 2.4C is "roughly" in between the 2.4A and 2.8E in pricing, not overwhelmingly close to the 2.4A pricing as you indicated.
Of course if user1234 lives near a Fry's and catches them on one of their loss-leader deals, then all bets off. $109 for a 2.4A, sell the motherboard and have a DIRT cheap processor. Fry's also recently had 3.2E retail box with motherboard for $199. If the motherboard can be sold for $45 then the 3.2E will cost the same as a 2.4C (both retail box).
Ahhh, the possibilities...
I think we're confusing user1234. We should carry on this discussion by PM and then when we reach a consensus we should ALL post here saying, "buy THIS chip." :laugh:
Newegg pricing on Celeron D 320 (2.40 Ghz)
$77.00 shipped
Might not be so bad, the benchmarks show it to do fairly well if you can o/c that to 3.8 like that did...
$77.00 shipped
Might not be so bad, the benchmarks show it to do fairly well if you can o/c that to 3.8 like that did...
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