Which 3rd gen cam/fbird? edit: not a 3rd gen but found a nice 95

[zCypher]

Chevy and Pontiac had the third generation of their Camaro/Firebird line from 1982 to 1992. The cars shared many characteristics but also had their differences. Personally, I'm leaning towards the Firebird myself - with my best friend preferring the Camaro. So, with a budget of $5000 - what 3rd gen cam/fbird would you be considering? And what would you settle for? (ex, no rust whatsoever, etc)

Would you look for one that's been modified at all or would you look for one that's completely bone stock and all-original? Would you settle for a 305 carb, 305 F.I , 350, bigger? Would you say "f those cars, I'm getting real muscle from the 60-70s!"? Or would you say "F both of those ideas, I'm getting a ricemobile!"?

The car I have in mind - black (optional, can be repainted), T-Top (it almost HAS to be t-top, unless there's a hardtop in PERFECT condition for an awesome price)... can't have any body rust (little surface rust is ok though), can't have holes in the floor (some do!), milage is a factor but if it runs ok then I don't mind it having a lot of mileage, has to be standard trans. I've test drove the standard and the auto in several diff flavours and I can't settle with an auto. i considered it, but after driving both, I want the standard.
engine... I'd prefer larger, but a 305 is fine if it's tune-port injection (TPI).. I test drove a standard 305 TPI, apparently with 240hp/320tq. it did rip like mad. don't know the 'real' numbers, but it'd definitely tear any ricebox a new hole.

So basically : black / standard / t-top / 305/350 preferrably T.P.I.

In the past I've found an 89 white hard top standard 305 TPI for $3000cdn, in sweet condition - but I didn't have the cash at the time.

So what are your thoughts and what would you get? And please spare me the smartass comments. I'm not buying a civic, corolla or sentra, or whatever. I want a firebird and I'm gonna get one.

edit: in anticipation to the arguments... the 1990 Camaro weighs about 2800-2900lbs and still manages ~26mpg on the highway - so before you bash these cars and say they're huge gas guzzling boats - for the amount of gas they guzzle and how heavy they are - they sure are a load of fun.

 

[KGB1]

One question... why in the world would you be thinking about a GM vehicle?

I own a GM, I know how craptacular they are. Find your self a nice Lexus SC300/400 manual and let the good times roll

 

[Rent]

I'd stay away from the 305... those motors weren't very reliable and they can get kinda pricey to repair. The 350 on the other hand is rock solid, so if you can find a Z28 SS/Trans Am in good condition, I'd go for that.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Rent
I'd stay away from the 305... those motors weren't very reliable and they can get kinda pricey to repair. The 350 on the other hand is rock solid, so if you can find a Z28 SS/Trans Am in good condition, I'd go for that.

?????? Sorry but you know nothing about cars then. The 305 and 350 are the SAME just the 305 has a smaller bore.



But get a 1988 or newwer, pre 88 had more carb motors and some early F/I problems. Look for a F/I car ONLY, NO CARB's!!! The 2 best are a 305 with TPI and a 5 speed or a 350 with a Auto trans. The 350 never came with a 5 speed. But you can find a 305 with Throttle Body F/I cheap.

 

[Rent]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Rent I'd stay away from the 305... those motors weren't very reliable and they can get kinda pricey to repair. The 350 on the other hand is rock solid, so if you can find a Z28 SS/Trans Am in good condition, I'd go for that.

?????? Sorry but you know nothing about cars then. The 305 and 350 are the SAME just the 305 has a smaller bore. But get a 1988 or newwer, pre 88 had more carb motors and some early F/I problems. Look for a F/I car ONLY, NO CARB's!!! The 2 best are a 305 with TPI and a 5 speed or a 350 with a Auto trans. The 350 never came with a 5 speed. But you can find a 305 with Throttle Body F/I cheap.

I'd always heard to stay away from the 305...

I'll keep it in mind

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Get anything that has the body you want, and only spend about $2000US on that, then you can get a crate moter for $2300 350ci and put that in.

 

[Quixfire]

I would recommend a Pontiac Trans Am GTA, there were 5.7L powered and almost all of them came with automatics, but a rare few, less than 20%, had manual 5sp.

These were very nice cars when new, it almost took me away from my 1986 Mustang LX 5.0L.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Rent

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Rent I'd stay away from the 305... those motors weren't very reliable and they can get kinda pricey to repair. The 350 on the other hand is rock solid, so if you can find a Z28 SS/Trans Am in good condition, I'd go for that.

?????? Sorry but you know nothing about cars then. The 305 and 350 are the SAME just the 305 has a smaller bore. But get a 1988 or newwer, pre 88 had more carb motors and some early F/I problems. Look for a F/I car ONLY, NO CARB's!!! The 2 best are a 305 with TPI and a 5 speed or a 350 with a Auto trans. The 350 never came with a 5 speed. But you can find a 305 with Throttle Body F/I cheap.

I'd always heard to stay away from the 305...

I'll keep it in mind

Now if it is a 305 with a Carb then yes RUN from those. But a 305 with F/I will do just fine, not as sought after as a 350, but will do what he needs. That and its very easy to find heads and blocks if he tears up a 305. Now a 350 eveybody goes afer those so a good core can be hard to find. But crack a 305 head, just go to a salavge yard and have the machine shop clean it up and you are good to go.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: Rent

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Rent I'd stay away from the 305... those motors weren't very reliable and they can get kinda pricey to repair. The 350 on the other hand is rock solid, so if you can find a Z28 SS/Trans Am in good condition, I'd go for that.

?????? Sorry but you know nothing about cars then. The 305 and 350 are the SAME just the 305 has a smaller bore. But get a 1988 or newwer, pre 88 had more carb motors and some early F/I problems. Look for a F/I car ONLY, NO CARB's!!! The 2 best are a 305 with TPI and a 5 speed or a 350 with a Auto trans. The 350 never came with a 5 speed. But you can find a 305 with Throttle Body F/I cheap.

I'd always heard to stay away from the 305...

I'll keep it in mind

That would be coming from the people that live and die by the motto, there's no replacement for displacement. The funny thing is, the people that say that usually are the ones driving the 305's

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Quixfire
I would recommend a Pontiac Trans Am GTA, there were 5.7L powered and almost all of them came with automatics, but a rare few, less than 20%, had manual 5sp.

These were very nice cars when new, it almost took me away from my 1986 Mustang LX 5.0L.

Not all GTA's had 350's some had the 305's. That and the GTA is probable the slowwest of the T/A's because it had all the extra body parts so it weighed more. It was more for crusing and looking good.

If you want speed then look for a 91-92 Camaro with a 305 5 speed or 350 auto. Last 2 years and best of the 3rd gen F-Bodies.

 

[dman]

B4C Baby.

That ones cheap, has been painted, and was used in service but that's the prize 3rd gen f-body model, well except for maybe a firebird firehawk (SLP). Followed by Camaro 1LE and then Z28/TransAm. After that you are better off as said above, by one of the cheap bodys in good shape and make it fast yourself.

Note: In that year range, 82-92 (3rd Gen) GM did not offer a 5spd transmission with the 5.7L engine. So, if you want a manual you are stuck with a 305l V8. Or swapping out the auto yourself. Probably cheaper to purchase a 5spd and swap the engine, but, the reason they didn't do that to begin with was because the 5spd is too weak.

[edit] I forgot there was also a limited edition 3.8l(? = GN Engine mostly IIRC) V6 Turbo TransAM (Ebay) GTA, that would be a nice choice if you could find one... but it ain't going to be cheap. [/edit]

 

[Quixfire]

Originally posted by: Rent

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Rent I'd stay away from the 305... those motors weren't very reliable and they can get kinda pricey to repair. The 350 on the other hand is rock solid, so if you can find a Z28 SS/Trans Am in good condition, I'd go for that.

?????? Sorry but you know nothing about cars then. The 305 and 350 are the SAME just the 305 has a smaller bore. But get a 1988 or newwer, pre 88 had more carb motors and some early F/I problems. Look for a F/I car ONLY, NO CARB's!!! The 2 best are a 305 with TPI and a 5 speed or a 350 with a Auto trans. The 350 never came with a 5 speed. But you can find a 305 with Throttle Body F/I cheap.

I'd always heard to stay away from the 305...

I'll keep it in mind

The 305 were just underpowered compared to the 350. They each have about the same reliability but during the late 80's a lot of 305s had bad camshaft and would wear the lobes off around 80K. There is an old circle track secret of using a factory installed 305 camshaft in a stock 350 to gain additional HP. The factory-installed cams in the 305 had a higher lift than the stock 350 and replacement 305 cams and could give you an extra 15-20 at the rear wheels.

 

[Vette73]

Also how much are you looking to spend??

You might be able to get a 1996-2000 V6 camaro/firebird pretty cheap. I say V6 as it make almost as much power asa a 3rd gen F-Body and is just as fast out of the box. The 1996 and up have the 3.8L 200Hp motor.


But my first car was a 85 Firebird. I really loved the way ot felt sitting in it. Not to high, not to low. I did all the upgrades to make it handle better, and it would take a corner very well.

 

[amdskip]

Stay away from the 305. Find a car with a good 350 that has been taken care of or find a car that needs a motor and drop a 350 crate motor in it.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: dman
B4C Baby.

That ones cheap, has been painted, and was used in service but that's the prize 3rd gen f-body model, well except for maybe a firebird firehawk (SLP). Followed by Camaro 1LE and then Z28/TransAm. After that you are better off as said above, by one of the cheap bodys in good shape and make it fast yourself.

Note: In that year range, 82-92 (3rd Gen) GM did not offer a 5spd transmission with the 5.7L engine. So, if you want a manual you are stuck with a 305l V8. Or swapping out the auto yourself. Probably cheaper to purchase a 5spd and swap the engine, but, the reason they didn't do that to begin with was because the 5spd is too weak.

The 5 speed they used in the F-Bodies is the same one used in teh mustangs, I think it is a T5 borg warner. But you are correct the 350 would tear up the T5. So be careful if you get a 5 speed F-Body and sup it up to much.

 

[notfred]

If you insist on a 3rd generation pony car, get a Mustang. Those old F-bodies sucked. If you want an F-body, get an LT1 or newer.

 

[amdskip]

Originally posted by: notfred
If you insist on a 3rd generation pony car, get a Mustang. Those old F-bodies sucked. If you want an F-body, get an LT1 or newer.

Those mustangs are fugly!

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: notfred
If you insist on a 3rd generation pony car, get a Mustang. Those old F-bodies sucked. If you want an F-body, get an LT1 or newer.

Ford fanboy

 

[zCypher]

Wow! Thanks for all the great replies. I posted this during a slow stretch at work. Just checked it now.

As for the 305 comments : Maybe the carb'd 305s sucked but I don't know. Everything I've heard about the 305 T.P.I engine has been good. 240hp and ~300tq definitely isn't underpowered. AFAIK, the 305 TPI is more powerful than most of the 350s, and also gets 1mpg better mileage.

Tyler: Not much of a Ford/Mustang guy, so I'm not going for that. Why do the 3rd gens suck? I like what I've seen so far.

As for the 96-2000+ : I won't be able to afford one of those in good condition although it'd be nice to have a 6-speed. I highly doubt a 96 V6 200hp would be faster than a 92 V8 240+hp. Especially considering the 3rd gen was one of the LIGHTEST models ever (some of the camaros were even under 3000lbs, whereas some fbodies go well past 3500lbs).

I like the 88-92 for its style, weight, engine (fuel injected), etc. I don't want an auto. That kinda limits me to 305s anyway doesn't it? I really am looking for a five-speed 305 TPI, pretty much. I'm not looking to mod it much any time soon. It's going to be my daily...

As for BUDGET.. I think I mentioned I'm going to be spending close to $5000. I will have the $5k, but I don't want to spend all of it on the purchase of the car as I will need money for registration/plates, etc and I want to keep a decent reserve in case of immediate repairs.

I'm gonna go car-shopping this weekend, I'll report my findings of course.

Thanks again for all the good replies. Very surprised!

Note: I know about the special edition V6 Turbo Trans Am! if I could get one of those for cheap I'd jump on it. I heard they were quite fast! Although, would it be as fun as a V8? Would all the power be higher up, or would I still have similar lowend grunt? I'm guessing there'd be noticably less lowend grunt despite being overall faster. I'd still prefer the V8 in that case.

 

[zCypher]

How's this...
$6350
1995 Firebird, all black, T-Top, 5.7L 6-speed, lots of mileage but it's highway mileage.

sound like a good deal? I'm DEFINITELY checking this one out. it's a steal if it's decent. wow, and according to some sites, it's 310hp/340tq and even gets 28mpg highway! thats sweet

edit: and yes i know this isn't a 3rd gen

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: zCypher
How's this...
$6350
1995 Firebird, all black, T-Top, 5.7L 6-speed, lots of mileage but it's highway mileage.

sound like a good deal? I'm DEFINITELY checking this one out. it's a steal if it's decent. wow, and according to some sites, it's 310hp/340tq and even gets 28mpg highway! thats sweet

edit: and yes i know this isn't a 3rd gen

Just be VERY careful getting a F-Body. Before I bought my Buick, I checked out ALL the F-Bodies in 30 miles or so of my town. All were either more than they are worth or they were raged out. I am a mechanic so I don't mind if the motor is trash, but the body and inside must be good.

Also if the owner is under 25, then REALLY REALLY check it out.

As for a 95, if is is a 5th month or later 95 then it might have the updated engine, i.e. orange coolant and I think Seq-Multi port F/I. Also check the rear main seal, they leak bad on F-Bodies earlier than 96, angle to engine and trans was kinda weird and put pressure on the rear seal more so than other setups.


But post back, maybe with some pics to what you find.

 

[Balthazar]

Originally posted by: zCypher
Wow! Thanks for all the great replies. I posted this during a slow stretch at work. Just checked it now.

As for the 305 comments : Maybe the carb'd 305s sucked but I don't know. Everything I've heard about the 305 T.P.I engine has been good. 240hp and ~300tq definitely isn't underpowered. AFAIK, the 305 TPI is more powerful than most of the 350s, and also gets 1mpg better mileage.

Tyler: Not much of a Ford/Mustang guy, so I'm not going for that. Why do the 3rd gens suck? I like what I've seen so far.

As for the 96-2000+ : I won't be able to afford one of those in good condition although it'd be nice to have a 6-speed. I highly doubt a 96 V6 200hp would be faster than a 92 V8 240+hp. Especially considering the 3rd gen was one of the LIGHTEST models ever (some of the camaros were even under 3000lbs, whereas some fbodies go well past 3500lbs).

I like the 88-92 for its style, weight, engine (fuel injected), etc. I don't want an auto. That kinda limits me to 305s anyway doesn't it? I really am looking for a five-speed 305 TPI, pretty much. I'm not looking to mod it much any time soon. It's going to be my daily...

As for BUDGET.. I think I mentioned I'm going to be spending close to $5000. I will have the $5k, but I don't want to spend all of it on the purchase of the car as I will need money for registration/plates, etc and I want to keep a decent reserve in case of immediate repairs.

I'm gonna go car-shopping this weekend, I'll report my findings of course.

Thanks again for all the good replies. Very surprised!

Note: I know about the special edition V6 Turbo Trans Am! if I could get one of those for cheap I'd jump on it. I heard they were quite fast! Although, would it be as fun as a V8? Would all the power be higher up, or would I still have similar lowend grunt? I'm guessing there'd be noticably less lowend grunt despite being overall faster. I'd still prefer the V8 in that case.

He wants you to get an old Mustang so you can feel the raw power of Ford's....hmmm....electrical problems maybe? Because thats about all you'd feel. Other than stupid for sitting in such an ugly ass vehicle. Mustangs = t3h FUGLY!

 

[zCypher]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: zCypher
How's this...
$6350
1995 Firebird, all black, T-Top, 5.7L 6-speed, lots of mileage but it's highway mileage.

sound like a good deal? I'm DEFINITELY checking this one out. it's a steal if it's decent. wow, and according to some sites, it's 310hp/340tq and even gets 28mpg highway! thats sweet

edit: and yes i know this isn't a 3rd gen

Just be VERY careful getting a F-Body. Before I bought my Buick, I checked out ALL the F-Bodies in 30 miles or so of my town. All were either more than they are worth or they were raged out. I am a mechanic so I don't mind if the motor is trash, but the body and inside must be good.

Also if the owner is under 25, then REALLY REALLY check it out.

As for a 95, if is is a 5th month or later 95 then it might have the updated engine, i.e. orange coolant and I think Seq-Multi port F/I. Also check the rear main seal, they leak bad on F-Bodies earlier than 96, angle to engine and trans was kinda weird and put pressure on the rear seal more so than other setups.


But post back, maybe with some pics to what you find.

Thanks Marlin1975. Of course I will check it out thoroughly, and thanks for the input, being a mechanic and all. I'm no mechanic, and I'm not really all that mechanically inclined. To make up for this, I will bring my friend who is more mechanically inclined than I am, and I will also have it professionaly inspected and have it checked for whatever common problems. I'm not jumping on it, and I want to make a good purchase here. I am excited, though.