Can someone fill me in on this, is there such a monitor that does not have the two line, and if so are they better and which ones ? Samsung, NEC, sony ? I'm looking to buy the best 21" out there.
Which 21" monitor does not have the two lines - Diamondtron or Trinitron ?
- Thread starter NicColt
- Start date
If you want an apature grill monitor, you're just going to have to live with the 2 lines, as both of these tubes contain them. The only way to not have them is to go with a shadow mask monitor, which, as most people will tell you, is inferior.
Russell "Mr.Bios" Sampson
Russell "Mr.Bios" Sampson
<< The only way to not have them is to go with a shadow mask monitor, which, as most people will tell you, is inferior.
Russell "Mr.Bios" Sampson >>
Most people are wrong!
If you are looking for monitors without the horizontal lines your options are
Hitach
Cornerstone
Some Samsung models "DF" not "NF"
LG
You need monitors with shadow mask tubes. The best is the Eizo Flexscan F980 about $1700. Also look at the Hitachi CM823F
<< Most people are wrong! >>
I think you're wrong!!
If you have an AG-based monitor, you'll have 2 lines across your screen (dampening wires). If you go to SM-based monitors, you won't have the lines.
<<
<< Most people are wrong! >>
I think you're wrong!!
If you have an AG-based monitor, you'll have 2 lines across your screen (dampening wires). If you go to SM-based monitors, you won't have the lines. >>
I was referring to mrbios comment about shadow mask being inferior which I think is wrong and so do you I think.
<< "...I'm looking to buy the best 21" out there. ..."
If you want the best quality, you're going to have to live with the two lines. >>
Interesting that many high end shadow mask monitors have 5-year warranties and almost all AG monitors only have 3-year. If the quality was that much better wouldnt you expect at least the same warranty period?
<< Most people are wrong!
If you are looking for monitors without the horizontal lines your options are
Hitach
Cornerstone
Some Samsung models "DF" not "NF"
LG >>
Sorry for the bad wording in this thread by me, but the question on 'Which 21" monitor does not have the two lines - Diamondtron or Trinitron?' is neither. The monitors mentioned above are shadow mask, or in the case of LG, slot mask. If you are needing this for graphics, then you will have to live with the two lines. Shadow mask tubes are inferior for colour purity and brightness, but that's not to say they are bad. Its just the AG monitors are better. In fact, I like the LG Flatron monitor I used to have at work.
Russell "Mr.Bios" Sampson
The warranty is for it breaking, not for how good it looks. Depends on what's more important to the individual.
<<Shadow mask tubes are inferior for colour purity and brightness, but that's not to say they are bad. Its just the AG monitors are better. In fact, I like the LG Flatron monitor I used to have at work.>>
Oh no, you've awakened the sleeping giant. Expect Gosharkss to debunk every bit of that.
Oh no, you've awakened the sleeping giant. Expect Gosharkss to debunk every bit of that.
>Diamondtron tubes and Trinitron tubes both have the lines.
>Unless I am a bit out of date, the best 21" monitor is the Sony F520.
D'oh - show how much I know about monitors. thanks for clearing that up for me. It's a sony F520 for me then.
>Unless I am a bit out of date, the best 21" monitor is the Sony F520.
D'oh - show how much I know about monitors. thanks for clearing that up for me. It's a sony F520 for me then.
<< Shadow mask tubes are inferior for colour purity and brightness >>
Prove it please.
(I'm the invar shadow mask Eizo zealot.)
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,660
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Aperture Grille is just so sweet. All my Shadow Mask lovin' buddies are always going gaga over my 19" Diamondtron. Funny thing is that they don't even notice the dampening wires until I point them out to them.
IMO, those who can't wrap their brain around the fact that 2 minscule lines doesn't ruin picture quality deserve Shadow Mask!
IMO, those who can't wrap their brain around the fact that 2 minscule lines doesn't ruin picture quality deserve Shadow Mask!
<<Prove it please. >>
thats hard to prove: how do you know what a color is supposed to look like if the only way you can look at the color is through a monitor
but: Aperature grills have a lower dot pitch and in my opinion have a better picture quality (i love my Nec Fp1355 AG monitor)
thats hard to prove: how do you know what a color is supposed to look like if the only way you can look at the color is through a monitor
but: Aperature grills have a lower dot pitch and in my opinion have a better picture quality (i love my Nec Fp1355 AG monitor)
I prefer SM always have and always will. I don't get these AG fanatics. It's really preference, there is no objective standard.
Implications or many of the statements of AG fanatics makes it sound like AG is clearly superior and that's JUST NOT TRUE.
Many people prefer SM.
Course for me this whole argument is moot. i now have an LCD monitor and guess what it's PERFECTLY FLAT, doesn't have the lines of an AG and has GREAT COLORS.
Implications or many of the statements of AG fanatics makes it sound like AG is clearly superior and that's JUST NOT TRUE.
Many people prefer SM.
Course for me this whole argument is moot. i now have an LCD monitor and guess what it's PERFECTLY FLAT, doesn't have the lines of an AG and has GREAT COLORS.
Can't say it any better than PlatinumGold did.
<<Aperature grills have a lower dot pitch>>
First of all AGs dont have dot pitch, they have grille pitch or striple pitch which can't be directly compared to SM's dot pitch.
<<Aperature grills have a lower dot pitch>>
First of all AGs dont have dot pitch, they have grille pitch or striple pitch which can't be directly compared to SM's dot pitch.
The only advantage of aperature grill monitors is brightness. Purity, focus(particularly in the corners), linearity, convergence, and just about any other comparison point is superier in shadow mask tubes of which the Eizo F980 is king. For flash and splash go with AG, for accurate and precise representation with minimum distortion go with SM.
<<First of all AGs dont have dot pitch>>
Ah ha, caught me on that one, kinda wondering if any of you guys knew. Well, i was just trying to put some good comments in for the AG side. For my main system i have a Phillips 19" TrueFlat, .25mm DP and for $350 it definetly has a price advantage.
Ah ha, caught me on that one, kinda wondering if any of you guys knew. Well, i was just trying to put some good comments in for the AG side. For my main system i have a Phillips 19" TrueFlat, .25mm DP and for $350 it definetly has a price advantage.
you can compare ag pitch to dot pitch.
http://www.proview.net/dotpitch.htm
Mathematically, the stripe pitch of an aperture-grille mask is not directly comparable with the dot pitch of a standard dot mask. The equivalent measurement for the latter would be the horizontal distance between a dot and the closest dot of the same color in the next row down, which equals the dot pitch times 0.866. To compare a standard dot pitch with a stripe pitch, therefore, multiply the dot pitch by 0.866.
<< correct me if i'm wrong but slot mask is aperature grill >>
You'll find a third scheme in NEC's CromaClear® CRT, Panasonic's PureFlat® CRT, and most TV tubes. These displays use a slot mask--a shadow mask with elongated slots and their phosphors run in vertical stripes, as in a Trinitron® tube. This design yields individual elongated ovals for dots on the screen, which makes the image brighter than a standard dot mask does. Because the mask is a single piece, it doesn't need horizontal wires to hold a grille in place as does the Trinitron®.
http://www.proview.net/dotpitch.htm
Mathematically, the stripe pitch of an aperture-grille mask is not directly comparable with the dot pitch of a standard dot mask. The equivalent measurement for the latter would be the horizontal distance between a dot and the closest dot of the same color in the next row down, which equals the dot pitch times 0.866. To compare a standard dot pitch with a stripe pitch, therefore, multiply the dot pitch by 0.866.
<< correct me if i'm wrong but slot mask is aperature grill >>
You'll find a third scheme in NEC's CromaClear® CRT, Panasonic's PureFlat® CRT, and most TV tubes. These displays use a slot mask--a shadow mask with elongated slots and their phosphors run in vertical stripes, as in a Trinitron® tube. This design yields individual elongated ovals for dots on the screen, which makes the image brighter than a standard dot mask does. Because the mask is a single piece, it doesn't need horizontal wires to hold a grille in place as does the Trinitron®.
As I read through this thread I will address as many issues as I can.
Never trust general statements like AG is brighter/better than SM or visa versa. No two monitors are alike. Also the CRT is only one component of a monitor. A good CRT matched with a poor power supply, video amp or deflection circuit will look poor compared to a unit with an average CRT with better electronics. Even the highest quality monitors occasionally don't perform as promised.
The original poster asked for monitors without the horizontal damping wires, thus there are two options, slot mask or shadow mask CRT?s. The companies that make these have been listed, sorry I forgot EIZO in my original list. Lets respect what the original poster is asking for.
If you have an opinion on a technology it would be nice if you can back up your statements with facts otherwise it is just an opinion and every one has one.
Brightness ?Luminance? has little to do with the actual CRT. It has more to do with how the manufacturer set up the unit at the factory. Again all units are unique. AG has more phosphor area for the beam to hit, however this does not mean all AG units will be brighter than SM. ON the other hand this means that AG is more prone to screen burn. There is always a trade off.
When the manufactures of AG monitors start publishing Brightness, Convergence, Geometric distortion, linearity specs, we can then do a comparison. Until then there is no bases for saying one is better than the other. BTW with the exception of linearity I publish these specs for my monitors. So you can use them as a comparison. I know why they are reluctant to publish these specs, I have see their specs.
SM CRT?s have an advantage in Color purity. NOT color saturation. AG monitors tend to be more prone to magnetic fields, thus colors in the corners sometimes are a problem. Put up a red screen and rotate your monitor 90 degrees you will see what I mean.
Slot mask is NOT AG or SM. It was a design by Toshiba that NEC ?Cromaclear brand? tried to market. NEC and Toshiba have left that market LG is the only remaining manufacture using slot mask that I know of. Slot mask is kind of a combination of AG an SM. No it does not have the horizontal stabilizing wires.
King did a good job on dot pitch and slot mask, no more needs to be said.
Apologies to the original poster.
Never trust general statements like AG is brighter/better than SM or visa versa. No two monitors are alike. Also the CRT is only one component of a monitor. A good CRT matched with a poor power supply, video amp or deflection circuit will look poor compared to a unit with an average CRT with better electronics. Even the highest quality monitors occasionally don't perform as promised.
The original poster asked for monitors without the horizontal damping wires, thus there are two options, slot mask or shadow mask CRT?s. The companies that make these have been listed, sorry I forgot EIZO in my original list. Lets respect what the original poster is asking for.
If you have an opinion on a technology it would be nice if you can back up your statements with facts otherwise it is just an opinion and every one has one.
Brightness ?Luminance? has little to do with the actual CRT. It has more to do with how the manufacturer set up the unit at the factory. Again all units are unique. AG has more phosphor area for the beam to hit, however this does not mean all AG units will be brighter than SM. ON the other hand this means that AG is more prone to screen burn. There is always a trade off.
When the manufactures of AG monitors start publishing Brightness, Convergence, Geometric distortion, linearity specs, we can then do a comparison. Until then there is no bases for saying one is better than the other. BTW with the exception of linearity I publish these specs for my monitors. So you can use them as a comparison. I know why they are reluctant to publish these specs, I have see their specs.
SM CRT?s have an advantage in Color purity. NOT color saturation. AG monitors tend to be more prone to magnetic fields, thus colors in the corners sometimes are a problem. Put up a red screen and rotate your monitor 90 degrees you will see what I mean.
Slot mask is NOT AG or SM. It was a design by Toshiba that NEC ?Cromaclear brand? tried to market. NEC and Toshiba have left that market LG is the only remaining manufacture using slot mask that I know of. Slot mask is kind of a combination of AG an SM. No it does not have the horizontal stabilizing wires.
King did a good job on dot pitch and slot mask, no more needs to be said.
Apologies to the original poster.
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