Where to find a good web designer/developer?

[WiseOne]

Can anyone recommend some good web designers? A friend of mine is looking to launch an ecommerce site soon however all the designers he found so far have abandoned the project half way through. Its been a giant waste of money and time.

Anyone have any experience with hiring good web designers?

 

[Drakkon]

How many designers has your "friend" gone through? something tells me the problem here isnt the designers but your "friend" not giving them the right requirements or constantly changing his mind

 

[amdskip]

Just use some established shopping cart system and set something up.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Define "designer"? A designer tends to be one that only does the visual layout.

 

[WiseOne]

Originally posted by: Drakkon
How many designers has your "friend" gone through? something tells me the problem here isnt the designers but your "friend" not giving them the right requirements or constantly changing his mind

You're partially correct. That's why I offered to get it done for him.

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Define "designer"? A designer tends to be one that only does the visual layout.

Sorry you're right, I mean good developers. The website pretty much needs everything, backend system to add products, good shopping cart etc.

 

[WiseOne]

Originally posted by: Drakkon
How many designers has your "friend" gone through? something tells me the problem here isnt the designers but your "friend" not giving them the right requirements or constantly changing his mind

Just noticed the "friend." No really its his project. He has trouble using the Iphone so suffice to say he's not the best person to get this done.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: WiseOne

Originally posted by: Drakkon
How many designers has your "friend" gone through? something tells me the problem here isnt the designers but your "friend" not giving them the right requirements or constantly changing his mind

Just noticed the "friend." No really its his project. He has trouble using the Iphone so suffice to say he's not the best person to get this done.

There's the problem then.

1) It is EXTREMELY difficult to find a programmer at a price an individual can afford.

2) The cheaper programmers do NOT want to deal with someone who does not know exactly what they want. If you want your hand held you will pay a lot more


Edit: My only suggestion would be to hire a consultant who will help him figure out what he wants and THEN go to a developer.

 

[RossMAN]

It sounds like he needs a 1) web designer and 2) coder for the back end shopping cart stuff.

 

[QurazyQuisp]

Please, for the sake of my fellow web developers, please make sure you have a firm "what I want" for your website. There is nothing that bothers me more then a client changing their mind over everything.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp
Please, for the sake of my fellow web developers, please make sure you have a firm "what I want" for your website. There is nothing that bothers me more then a client changing their mind over everything.

So long as I'm billing by the hour, a client can change his mind all he wants.

 

[QurazyQuisp]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp
Please, for the sake of my fellow web developers, please make sure you have a firm "what I want" for your website. There is nothing that bothers me more then a client changing their mind over everything.

So long as I'm billing by the hour, a client can change his mind all he wants.

That's what I thought too. Until I had a client who seriously made me consider getting out of the business all together.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: RossMAN
It sounds like he needs a 1) web designer and 2) coder for the back end shopping cart stuff.

There are a billion pre-made FREE shopping cart installs and scripts on the net. Just gotta jump right into the meat grinder and do it yourself. There's nothing like taking the time to learn the language, do some customization of an existing script or install, and be on your way. It's satisfying to see the end result.

 

[RossMAN]

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: RossMAN
It sounds like he needs a 1) web designer and 2) coder for the back end shopping cart stuff.

There are a billion pre-made FREE shopping cart installs and scripts on the net. Just gotta jump right into the meat grinder and do it yourself. There's nothing like taking the time to learn the language, do some customization of an existing script or install, and be on your way. It's satisfying to see the end result.

billion?

Wow please name them all

 

[dugweb]

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp
Please, for the sake of my fellow web developers, please make sure you have a firm "what I want" for your website. There is nothing that bothers me more then a client changing their mind over everything.

So long as I'm billing by the hour, a client can change his mind all he wants.

That's what I thought too. Until I had a client who seriously made me consider getting out of the business all together.

sounds like a funny story

do tell!

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Drakkon
How many designers has your "friend" gone through? something tells me the problem here isnt the designers but your "friend" not giving them the right requirements or constantly changing his mind

And are they offering pay or one of the typical Craiglist ads saying you are going to make him a full partner in some multi-million dollar project to rival ebay, myspace, amazon, etc.

I have a buddy that constantly lists this kind of crap and wastes tons of people's times. He has no complete idea and gets bogged down in wanting bandwidth intensive nonsense.

He wanted me to originally design a website that would disassemble itself into molecules that would float around and then form wierd things like a chick with 6 arms, a few mythical creatures and then morph back into the site randomly. 'COOL' thing is any of the molecules you should have been able to zoom in on and see like DNA inside and stuff.

His goal was to sell water and air filters with this...then he would throw in 'also' cars and high end furniture. He'd also want to make sure it was done on a Mac since Windows can't make good sites.

 

[five40]

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp
Please, for the sake of my fellow web developers, please make sure you have a firm "what I want" for your website. There is nothing that bothers me more then a client changing their mind over everything.

So long as I'm billing by the hour, a client can change his mind all he wants.

That's what I thought too. Until I had a client who seriously made me consider getting out of the business all together.

Yeah...hourly is not all it's cracked up to be for sure. I've had a good handful of hourly projects that have almost driven me insane. It seems that everyone who wants a web project never knows exactly what they want, they don't want to listen to anyone who actually knows something, they love to change everything every 5 seconds, and they expect to pay the original quoted price even though they've tripled the number of required hours due to all their "awesome" changes.

 

[Revolution09]

Originally posted by: five40

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp
Please, for the sake of my fellow web developers, please make sure you have a firm "what I want" for your website. There is nothing that bothers me more then a client changing their mind over everything.

So long as I'm billing by the hour, a client can change his mind all he wants.

That's what I thought too. Until I had a client who seriously made me consider getting out of the business all together.

Yeah...hourly is not all it's cracked up to be for sure. I've had a good handful of hourly projects that have almost driven me insane. It seems that everyone who wants a web project never knows exactly what they want, they don't want to listen to anyone who actually knows something, they love to change everything every 5 seconds, and they expect to pay the original quoted price even though they've tripled the number of required hours due to all their "awesome" changes.

you forgot the part where in the end, the site looks exactly the same as when you began the "awesome" changes

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: five40

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp
Please, for the sake of my fellow web developers, please make sure you have a firm "what I want" for your website. There is nothing that bothers me more then a client changing their mind over everything.

So long as I'm billing by the hour, a client can change his mind all he wants.

That's what I thought too. Until I had a client who seriously made me consider getting out of the business all together.

Yeah...hourly is not all it's cracked up to be for sure. I've had a good handful of hourly projects that have almost driven me insane. It seems that everyone who wants a web project never knows exactly what they want, they don't want to listen to anyone who actually knows something, they love to change everything every 5 seconds, and they expect to pay the original quoted price even though they've tripled the number of required hours due to all their "awesome" changes.

The hourly vs project-based issue is an interesting one. Personally, I believe that project-based is the best method for both buyer and seller, I have also had many problems with coders completely miscalculating the time required.

 

[WiseOne]

Assuming there is a full fledged plan in place on how the website should function. How much can one expect to pay for a professional site anyway? From graphic design to back end system.

 

[daniel1113]

$10k minimum for a custom ecommerce site.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp
Please, for the sake of my fellow web developers, please make sure you have a firm "what I want" for your website. There is nothing that bothers me more then a client changing their mind over everything.

So long as I'm billing by the hour, a client can change his mind all he wants.

That's what I thought too. Until I had a client who seriously made me consider getting out of the business all together.

As a workaholic software developer, I've had this happen to me so many times I actually took a hiatus from client work for about three years now. Easing back into it currently because I want to own a place before I turn ninety.

The problem is always twofold: First, the client never knows what he wants. Oh sure, s/he thinks they do, but not really. That's why any contract I sign now explicitly mentions how to handle revisions.

Second, the client usually throws a hissy fit over payment. They almost always pay late or threaten to hold back some of what they owe for some reason or another. Before you come back at me by saying that the clients I've had are probably a one-man show with limited cash flow, think again. Big and small businesses alike are bastards when it comes to forking over cash.

You can hire a competent software developer for what you ask for perhaps $30/hr minimum. That will get you someone with some limited experience in the field. Quality talent usually commands something like $60/hr.

A good software developer will ask the client lots and lots of questions. The purpose behind this is pretty simple: The client never accounts for everything that needs to be done, and this process will hopefully ferret out what's been forgotten. Even then, some things will be missed.

Being abandoned by multiple developers probably means your friend is paying way too little and only getting the worst of the lot when it comes to talent. Got to spend money to make money! Tell him/her to get serious and allocate a good chunk of change ($1k - $2k) to getting things done right.

Lastly, as RossMAN said, separate design from backend work. Even I simply purchase my designs from sites like TemplateMonster.com at this point - it's just not worth the bother of doing it yourself. Spend your billable hours on the backend.

 

[WiseOne]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp
Please, for the sake of my fellow web developers, please make sure you have a firm "what I want" for your website. There is nothing that bothers me more then a client changing their mind over everything.

So long as I'm billing by the hour, a client can change his mind all he wants.

That's what I thought too. Until I had a client who seriously made me consider getting out of the business all together.

As a workaholic software developer, I've had this happen to me so many times I actually took a hiatus from client work for about three years now. Easing back into it currently because I want to own a place before I turn ninety.

The problem is always twofold: First, the client never knows what he wants. Oh sure, s/he thinks they do, but not really. That's why any contract I sign now explicitly mentions how to handle revisions.

Second, the client usually throws a hissy fit over payment. They almost always pay late or threaten to hold back some of what they owe for some reason or another. Before you come back at me by saying that the clients I've had are probably a one-man show with limited cash flow, think again. Big and small businesses alike are bastards when it comes to forking over cash.

You can hire a competent software developer for what you ask for perhaps $30/hr minimum. That will get you someone with some limited experience in the field. Quality talent usually commands something like $60/hr.

A good software developer will ask the client lots and lots of questions. The purpose behind this is pretty simple: The client never accounts for everything that needs to be done, and this process will hopefully ferret out what's been forgotten. Even then, some things will be missed.

Being abandoned by multiple developers probably means your friend is paying way too little and only getting the worst of the lot when it comes to talent. Got to spend money to make money! Tell him/her to get serious and allocate a good chunk of change ($1k - $2k) to getting things done right.

Lastly, as RossMAN said, separate design from backend work. Even I simply purchase my designs from sites like TemplateMonster.com at this point - it's just not worth the bother of doing it yourself. Spend your billable hours on the backend.

Well his budget is around 2.5K - 3K, its just the matter of finding the right person. Any suggestions on that part. Are you interested

 

[alkemyst]

Scope creep sucks...what usually happens is the idea isn't well thought out until it's costing them money...

I don't program on contract anymore as you get people that are just a pain in the ass to get money out of.

My favorite was always...but I have a nephew that could have done this for a couple hundred bucks.

That won't even cover my first day of not even programming. What I do is map out the function of the site. I get all the variable pathways signed off on and any features wanted. Once this is done I keep a copy and start.

Anything that falls out of that spec is additional if I cannot complete it in the said number of hours (sometimes I was over a bit and ate it and sometimes under...for unknown projects I would spec out a healthy range and milestones).

Still with all that you'd get 'hey I have this laptop (like a 386) that's worth at least 4x what you are charging' or 'I was thinking you'd be more interested in a % ownership of the company...we are guaranteed to make $$$$$ within 6 months', etc.

The huge problem is to collect it's usually threat of a lawyer or having to actually bring them downtown to court.

Contract for an existing corporation is also occasionally problematic.