Where the heck do I start?

[007ELmO]

That's the problem: I have no clue. What is "operations"? </newb>

The issue is that virtually all my formal schooling is unrelated to the field (I'm a biology major), so I don't even know what's available. I just haven't been exposed to the stuff.

Any information you can give me would be great.

I'm pretty sure I don't want to be a programmer though. And this is based solely on the assumption that I probably am not very good at it, relatively speaking - and I've heard that even the best programmers don't make that much money, so where does that leave me?

I'm not a great programmer, and I'm over 6 digits. My coworkers think we don't make a lot (maybe comparatively to other programmers), but IMO a single person making that much is "enough"? I can learn new technologies quickly. If you think you can, prove it to yourself - make a somewhat complicated project and code it within 3 months. If you can do that, you have what it takes to be a consultant.

Some of the best programmers I know, do not have backgrounds in computer science. I do, but several of my coworkers/friends degrees are in Chemical Engineering, Biology, etc. Former lawyers, would-be doctors, etc.

Begin feverishly coding and learning mobile technology, catch up with the rest, you will make money.

 

[beginner99]

If you think you can, prove it to yourself - make a somewhat complicated project and code it within 3 months. If you can do that, you have what it takes to be a consultant.

And sooner or later that code will land on the daily WTF...

 

[Tweak155]

lol that actually is funny but since VBA sucks so bad I would also rather earn a bit less and use a real language that isn't a constant WTF. Makes sense you get a ton of money from it because if all those excel spreadsheets fail, probably whole finance and controlling departments will be unable to operate.

It's amazing what excel is used for.

Yeah you'd be amazed what this company does in Access / Excel... Larger than some .Net apps.

 

[badb0y]

I'm in the same boat as OP (22 years old) and I am thinking about getting into programming.

I have a Bachelor's in Economic already and have found a decent job but it's definitely not what I want to be doing and it looks like I am abandoning the idea of getting an MBA.

So a few questions for you guys:

1.) What are some good ways to get a feel of what a programmer does? What should I be looking at and reading? I don't want to go back to school if I don't like what I am going to be doing.
2.) If I do decide to pursue programming should I go back to school and get a second Bachelor's in CS or should will I be able to pursue a Master's in CS? I know Boston University offers the LEAP program for people in my position but I just want to know what people in the field think.

Sorry OP for jumping in but I was going to start a thread on this anyways.

 

[Jaydip]

I'm in the same boat as OP (22 years old) and I am thinking about getting into programming.

I have a Bachelor's in Economic already and have found a decent job but it's definitely not what I want to be doing and it looks like I am abandoning the idea of getting an MBA.

So a few questions for you guys:

1.) What are some good ways to get a feel of what a programmer does? What should I be looking at and reading? I don't want to go back to school if I don't like what I am going to be doing.
2.) If I do decide to pursue programming should I go back to school and get a second Bachelor's in CS or should will I be able to pursue a Master's in CS? I know Boston University offers the LEAP program for people in my position but I just want to know what people in the field think.

Sorry OP for jumping in but I was going to start a thread on this anyways.

1.Analytical thinking is the key, you are a problem solver first and foremost.Do you like theory or prefer practical approach? 2.Degree may certainly help but not required.It's your understanding that matters.

 

[smackababy]

I'm in the same boat as OP (22 years old) and I am thinking about getting into programming.

I have a Bachelor's in Economic already and have found a decent job but it's definitely not what I want to be doing and it looks like I am abandoning the idea of getting an MBA.

So a few questions for you guys:

1.) What are some good ways to get a feel of what a programmer does? What should I be looking at and reading? I don't want to go back to school if I don't like what I am going to be doing.
2.) If I do decide to pursue programming should I go back to school and get a second Bachelor's in CS or should will I be able to pursue a Master's in CS? I know Boston University offers the LEAP program for people in my position but I just want to know what people in the field think.

Sorry OP for jumping in but I was going to start a thread on this anyways.

There are a lot of primers that can help you get a feel for what programming does. Check out any beginners programming book. I find the Headfirst series good for beginners. I cannot stress the importance of learning about programming before actually paying for classes about it. It is not for everyone, and you might not enjoy it. Just poke around at some basic stuff. There are plenty of free IDEs out there for every language (some better than others, but just starting out that doesn't matter).

As far as Master's, I don't really know many programmers that have them. A bachelor's is enough to get your foot in the door and there is plenty of room for advancement.

 

[badb0y]

There are a lot of primers that can help you get a feel for what programming does. Check out any beginners programming book. I find the Headfirst series good for beginners. I cannot stress the importance of learning about programming before actually paying for classes about it. It is not for everyone, and you might not enjoy it. Just poke around at some basic stuff. There are plenty of free IDEs out there for every language (some better than others, but just starting out that doesn't matter).

As far as Master's, I don't really know many programmers that have them. A bachelor's is enough to get your foot in the door and there is plenty of room for advancement.

http://www.amazon.com/Head-First-Pro.../dp/0596802374
Should I start with this one? They have books on other languages too.
Alright cool, my plan is to read up on programming and start poking around and if I enjoy it I will pursue a degree.

1.Analytical thinking is the key, you are a problem solver first and foremost.Do you like theory or prefer practical approach? 2.Degree may certainly help but not required.It's your understanding that matters.

1.) I prefer the practical approach but I also enjoy theory.

2.) Ok great so how would I get experience like internships? Won't people with a CS degree beat me out?

 

[smackababy]

http://www.amazon.com/Head-First-Pro.../dp/0596802374
Should I start with this one? They have books on other languages too.
Alright cool, my plan is to read up on programming and start poking around and if I enjoy it I will pursue a degree.

That book should be good to get you into the gist of it, but if you did a little searching, I am sure there is a free resource online. Not that $23 is a ton of money.

1.) I prefer the practical approach but I also enjoy theory.

2.) Ok great so how would I get experience like internships? Won't people with a CS degree beat me out?

Someone having a degree is roughly the equivalent of a couple (around 3 I'd imagine) of work experience. I would, if you have the time / resources, take every experience building I can get in school. Internships, projects, whatever. If nothing else, it can be a good learning experience and resume bullet.

The real truth is, while you might get passed up on some jobs, the technical interview is where a lot of people get filtered out. And, from what the guys told me after mine, the amount of people that don't know the basics is astounding. Basic stuff like OO principles or the difference between interface and abstract classes. What does the modifier final mean? I get that means nothing to you, but as anyone applying to a job using OO, those are pretty basic.

 

[badb0y]

That book should be good to get you into the gist of it, but if you did a little searching, I am sure there is a free resource online. Not that $23 is a ton of money.




Someone having a degree is roughly the equivalent of a couple (around 3 I'd imagine) of work experience. I would, if you have the time / resources, take every experience building I can get in school. Internships, projects, whatever. If nothing else, it can be a good learning experience and resume bullet.

The real truth is, while you might get passed up on some jobs, the technical interview is where a lot of people get filtered out. And, from what the guys told me after mine, the amount of people that don't know the basics is astounding. Basic stuff like OO principles or the difference between interface and abstract classes. What does the modifier final mean? I get that means nothing to you, but as anyone applying to a job using OO, those are pretty basic.

Thanks a lot for the help, it really helps when I can talk to someone about this stuff.

 

[Carson Dyle]

If you enjoy interacting with people, don't go into programming. Don't even consider it. Sure, there will be some human interaction in any job, but programming has to be among jobs with the lowest amount, short of being a monk living in a cave on a mountain. You will spend 90-99% of your time staring at a computer screen. The remainder will be in meetings, seminars, classes or reading technical books and manuals.

My Dad spent 45 years operating a machine in a factory. I'll have spent at least that much time with my nose in front of a monitor by the time I retire. There's not whole lot of difference, except maybe for the pay.

 

[Leros]

If you enjoy interacting with people, don't go into programming. Don't even consider it. Sure, there will be some human interaction in any job, but programming has to be among jobs with the lowest amount, short of being a monk living in a cave on a mountain. You will spend 90-99% of your time staring at a computer screen. The remainder will be in meetings, seminars, classes or reading technical books and manuals.

My Dad spent 45 years operating a machine in a factory. I'll have spent at least that much time with my nose in front of a monitor by the time I retire. There's not whole lot of difference, except maybe for the pay.

Depends on the environment. I've worked at a great company where I sat in an office by myself all day.

The place I work at now has an open floor plan. It's an incredibly social environment and I love it. I can interact with the people on my team or I can put on headphones and focus intently on my work.

 

[Turbonium]

I'm not big on people. Friends and occasional socializing aside, that is.

 

[Fayd]

You majored in biology? Do you have any interesting mathematical/statistical/analytical skills?

My company has been hiring people for our data science team. It's a programming job, but programming is not the main skill. We're hiring people with backgrounds in math, physics, astronomy, etc. They know how to program, but nowhere near the level of our software developers.

let me know if you're still hiring in a year. i'm a masters student in statistics.

 

[badb0y]

If you enjoy interacting with people, don't go into programming. Don't even consider it. Sure, there will be some human interaction in any job, but programming has to be among jobs with the lowest amount, short of being a monk living in a cave on a mountain. You will spend 90-99% of your time staring at a computer screen. The remainder will be in meetings, seminars, classes or reading technical books and manuals.

My Dad spent 45 years operating a machine in a factory. I'll have spent at least that much time with my nose in front of a monitor by the time I retire. There's not whole lot of difference, except maybe for the pay.

I am an introvert so that's no problem for me, I only like interacting with people if I absolutely have to. This is one of the main reasons I want to change my career right now because as a junior analyst I am talking to clients way more than I want to. I hate to act perky.

 

[Jaydip]

http://www.amazon.com/Head-First-Pro.../dp/0596802374
Should I start with this one? They have books on other languages too.
Alright cool, my plan is to read up on programming and start poking around and if I enjoy it I will pursue a degree.




1.) I prefer the practical approach but I also enjoy theory.

2.) Ok great so how would I get experience like internships? Won't people with a CS degree beat me out?

1.Thats great.It will help you understand the finer points. 2.There are some great online courses.I would recommend Python as your starting language as they are quite hot now a days.It will help you land a job faster.I have seen people with CS degrees being atrocious in programming.Your aptitude here really counts nothing else.

 

[Turbonium]

This is a masterful thread hijack btw. But at least it helps me too...

...f**ker.

 

[beginner99]

I cannot stress the importance of learning about programming before actually paying for classes about it. It is not for everyone, and you might not enjoy it.

this.

Get a beginners book in an OO language, Python or Java, work through them with the focus on programming and solving programming problems and not on reading. Afterwards come up with a simple project you can then create yourself and do it.

Keep in mind google and stackoverflow are your friends! IMHO being able to search and ask proper questions is very important too!

At that point you should know if programming is for you.

I would also look into source control, eg. git or mercurial. This can be very helpful for beginners as you can easily experiment with different approaches and move between them.

 

[ringtail]

here's a quick look at Python that you might check out, since Python was bring discussed above:
primer

 

[badb0y]

This is a masterful thread hijack btw. But at least it helps me too...

...f**ker.

Haha, sorry about that. I would really suggest that Head First book recommended by smackababy if you want to start somewhere. Very easy and fun to read and the exercises help out a lot. This is the first time I am messing with any kind of code and I am having a good time doing it.

I just blew by 2 chapters and I am taking a break. I don't want to overload my brain lol

 

[Turbonium]

Is database application development a good field to get into by the way? Not just in terms of pay, but getting a job (up here in Canada).

I'm thinking of going that route.

And I'm only asking this in more specific terms because there is a good program around here that I might enroll in. I figure if I can do what you guys recommended in terms of Python etc. and be at least semi-competent on my own, then I should be able to find success in the field.

 

[smackababy]

Database application development like applications that interact with a database or actual database development?

On the database side of things, I know it is fairly good money being a DBA (database administrator) and the field is rather large. Bur from what I hear, that is because nobody really wants to do that kind of stuff, and those that do usually want to kill themselves. >_>

The reality with CS, is that any program is only going to show you what is there. It is entirely up to you what you do with that starting point. If you don't have the drive to go out and learn how to better apply the concepts you already know or learn more, you will not get far as a programmer.

 

[Turbonium]

Here is a bit of the description of what the program is about:

• development and deployment of software using OSes
• creating web apps that interact with database back-ends
• design DB apps using relational and OO design methods with UML
• create and maintain SQL Server DB Management System
• design/implement in JAVA
• design and manipulate DBs in SQL and PL/SQL in Oracle
• create VB front end connecting to SQL Server DB (in .NET enviro)
• create JAVA front end connected to Oracle DB
• manage and implement project
• appraise DB connectivity issues
• design/implement a Data Warehouse

Does that answer your question? I'm assuming this means mostly interacting with DBs, but I could be wrong.

 

[Jaydip]

Here is a bit of the description of what the program is about:

• development and deployment of software using OSes
• creating web apps that interact with database back-ends
• design DB apps using relational and OO design methods with UML
• create and maintain SQL Server DB Management System
• design/implement in JAVA
• design and manipulate DBs in SQL and PL/SQL in Oracle
• create VB front end connecting to SQL Server DB (in .NET enviro)
• create JAVA front end connected to Oracle DB
• manage and implement project
• appraise DB connectivity issues
• design/implement a Data Warehouse

Does that answer your question? I'm assuming this means mostly interacting with DBs, but I could be wrong.

This is not a DBA job at all, more like a application programmer.

 

[Turbonium]

This is not a DBA job at all, more like a application programmer.

Is that good or bad in terms of getting a job?

Sorry for the silly questions. Again, I'm just a bio major out of my element.

 

[Jaydip]

Is that good or bad in terms of getting a job?

Sorry for the silly questions. Again, I'm just a bio major out of my element.

Depends on your preference actually I myself being an application programmer is slightly biased towards it.But DBA has also tremendous prospect.I myself find PL-SQL/SQL to be less interesting than a pure programming language.If you prefer system administration kind of job it may be suitable to you.There are some interesting aspects like performance tuning which is very cool.