Where Obama and McCain are Failing

[Starbuck1975]

Our current economic situation certainly plays to the Democrats, but the fact remains that Washington is already late to the table in addressing the lack of oversight and widespread greed that created this crisis in the first place.

Both Obama and McCain are still acting Senators. I don't care what plans they will implement once they become President...February is even later still for engaging this crisis.

The current economic situation is an ample opportunity for either Obama or McCain to perform their duties as Senators, return to Washington, and LEAD Congress through its current partisan divide on addressing the situation.

Instead, both candidates remain on the campaign trail, releasing talking points on how they will solve the problem as President...but as Senators, they are both in a better position to solve the problem today...yet they are afraid to engage the issue fully for fear of getting boxed into a situation that will cost them the election.

Obama released his 8 point plan...McCain has his own remedy...but their solutions are flip sides to the same coin...reactive solutions to soothe the populace in a election year, but not much else.

Also...and this is what really gets me going...neither candidate has the courage to tell the American people that if we want to place blame for the current economic situation, we should first look in the mirror...banks did engage in faulty lending practices, and Wall Street packaged those loans into high risk securities...but WE, the American people, are the ones who purchased those loans and fed the Wall Street machine...no one put a gun to our heads to take loans we could not pay to purchase homes we could not afford.

 

[EagleKeeper]

And you expect a politician to tell the truth?

They state what their audience wants to hear.

 

[hellod9]

Poor guy buying a house: wow...I want that house, but I don't think I can afford t.

Mortgage broker: We live in an ownership society. You deserve that house.

Poor guy: But I don't have the money.

Broker: Let me work with you on this.

Poor guy: But I don't have the money.

Broker: I could give you a loan with a 3.5% interest rate.

Poor guy: But I'm just a poor guy. Maybe after I've made some more money.

Broker: No, you deserve a house now. We'll just slide you into this adjustable rate mortgage...

Poor guy: But...

Broker: ...Then we'll fiddle with the numbers....

Poor guy: But...

Broker: ...and you can have this fancy new type of mortgage...

Poor guy: fancy?

Broker: ....this fancy new type of mortgage, it means you can be a part of the ownership society...

Poor guy: Ummm....

Broker: Don't worry...the payments will be really low...for five years!

Poor guy: Well....

Broker: Everyones doing it...

Poor guy: hmmm....

Broker: Just sign here and you can have your house TODAY.

Poor guy: Ok.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Also...and this is what really gets me going...neither candidate has the courage to tell the American people that if we want to place blame for the current economic situation, we should first look in the mirror...banks did engage in faulty lending practices, and Wall Street packaged those loans into high risk securities...but WE, the American people, are the ones who purchased those loans and fed the Wall Street machine...no one put a gun to our heads to take loans we could not pay to purchase homes we could not afford.

You're mostly right, but not all of us did the stupid thing and spent more than we could. We bought a home in 2001 while the bubble was still growing, and while we definitely wanted a larger place than we ended up buying, we also clung to sound economic principles and opted for a smaller place that we knew we could afford. So here with sit, with our 30-year fixed mortgage costing us no more than 25% of our monthly net, watching the market implode around us. It's nice not to be caught up in this mess, but thanks to Congress, I get to help pay for the clean-up anyway! :|

 

[GTKeeper]

Yes, it is true that no one put a gun to anyone's head.

HOWEVER, not everyone is fiscaly responsible. If it were left to the American people, this country would be broke a long time ago as everyone would just spend everything they had.



I have said this a few times, and I know it doesn't play toward the conservative view points, but it does make sense.

If you look at borrowing behavior over the decades or last 100 years.... people have always borrowed toward the maximum of their ability. The massive dramatic shift that has occured over the last 10 years or so is the LENDING practices. It is the lending that has become more lax therefore triggering a feverish borrowing boom.

I keep going back to my point of.... how the hell did these companies calculate the risks of these awful borrowers? I mean if you, starbuck never return anything that is lent to you, why the hell would I give you 20 dollars?

The financial companies though they had a full-proof system, meaning they could still lend to shitty borrowers and just have AiG or whoever insure the securities and everything would work out great!


See my point?

 

[Genx87]

We the people gleefully went headlong into this knowing or unknowingly. However if a candidate tried to blame us they may as well just pack up and head home. Their polls will drop faster than a 3 dollar hooker hooked on crack that hasnt had food in 4 days.

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Also...and this is what really gets me going...neither candidate has the courage to tell the American people that if we want to place blame for the current economic situation, we should first look in the mirror...banks did engage in faulty lending practices, and Wall Street packaged those loans into high risk securities...but WE, the American people, are the ones who purchased those loans and fed the Wall Street machine...no one put a gun to our heads to take loans we could not pay to purchase homes we could not afford.

You're mostly right, but not all of us did the stupid thing and spent more than we could. We bought a home in 2001 while the bubble was still growing, and while we definitely wanted a larger place than we ended up buying, we also clung to sound economic principles and opted for a smaller place that we knew we could afford. So here with sit, with our 30-year fixed mortgage costing us no more than 25% of our monthly net, watching the market implode around us. It's nice not to be caught up in this mess, but thanks to Congress, I get to help pay for the clean-up anyway! :|

Something ironic for us home owners under a fixed rate.....

If inflation goes through the roof (which it will) and you have a good job that hopefully can adjust for inflation (like a non-union/contract) job.... your house effectively becomes much cheaper!

 

[Dari]

Wrong. The banks are not at fault. The American people are not at fault. It is the government that is at fault. The government removed the "Chinese wall" in the banking system that separated investment bankers from analysts. The government let bankers write most of the modern banking laws, making it partial to a certain group at the expense of stability (which was the purpose of the banking laws from the 1930s). The government failed and most Americans, who were prudent with their money, are going to have to foot the bill simply because these banks and insurance companies are "too big to fail".

Simply put, Wall Street played the hand it was dealt and many people bought homes they simply could not afford. I hate to be crass but these two entities are nothing more than children whom have been given permission to do as they pleased by their parents (the government). You can blame the child if something goes wrong but sombody is eventually going to ask: "Where were the parents?". Most American are hardworking and it is a stupid assertion to blame us all for the ultimate failings of the government. Remember, many saw this crisis coming from a long distance. However, those in government just made weak warnings and did little when the market was hot. They are the ones to blame, not hardworking Americans.

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: hellod9
Poor guy buying a house: wow...I want that house, but I don't think I can afford t.

Mortgage broker: We live in an ownership society. You deserve that house.

Poor guy: But I don't have the money.

Broker: Let me work with you on this.

Poor guy: But I don't have the money.

Broker: I could give you a loan with a 3.5% interest rate.

Poor guy: But I'm just a poor guy. Maybe after I've made some more money.

Broker: No, you deserve a house now. We'll just slide you into this adjustable rate mortgage...

Poor guy: But...

Broker: ...Then we'll fiddle with the numbers....

Poor guy: But...

Broker: ...and you can have this fancy new type of mortgage...

Poor guy: fancy?

Broker: ....this fancy new type of mortgage, it means you can be a part of the ownership society...

Poor guy: Ummm....

Broker: Don't worry...the payments will be really low...for five years!

Poor guy: Well....

Broker: Everyones doing it...

Poor guy: hmmm....

Broker: Just sign here and you can have your house TODAY.

Poor guy: Ok.

And let me guess.. it's purely the brokers fault right?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
And let me guess.. it's purely the brokers fault right?

Obviously not, but are you going to try and argue that the brokers did not play a very large role here? They are supposed to be the professionals. Their job is to be paid to be knowledgeable and provide those without the knowledge what they need to know in order to make an informed and responsible decision. They failed. They didn't put a gun to the buyer's head but they certainly handed over a loaded weapon to that buyer and convinced them that pulling the trigger without aiming was anything but reckless.

The people are partially responsible too which greatly depends on the case. The government and their fucking retarded move in the 80s to deregulate was also a MAJOR cornerstone with this mess. The Keating Five which includes John McCain didn't exactly contribute towards "fixing" the Savings and Loans crisis either.

It is all one huge cluster fuck.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Dari
Wrong. The banks are not at fault. The American people are not at fault. It is the government that is at fault. The government removed the "Chinese wall" in the banking system that separated investment bankers from analysts. The government let bankers write most of the modern banking laws, making it partial to a certain group at the expense of stability (which was the purpose of the banking laws from the 1930s). The government failed and most Americans, who were prudent with their money, are going to have to foot the bill simply because these banks and insurance companies are "too big to fail".

Simply put, Wall Street played the hand it was dealt and many people bought homes they simply could not afford. I hate to be crass but these two entities are nothing more than children whom have been given permission to do as they pleased by their parents (the government). You can blame the child if something goes wrong but sombody is eventually going to ask: "Where were the parents?". Most American are hardworking and it is a stupid assertion to blame us all for the ultimate failings of the government. Remember, many saw this crisis coming from a long distance. However, those in government just made weak warnings and did little when the market was hot. They are the ones to blame, not hardworking Americans.

People aren't children, and gov't is not the parent. If those roles are correct, why should the people be allowed to elect the gov't? Do you trust a child to chose a parent? Will the child chose the responsible parent who may be tough on them in the short-term, but ultimately prepare them better for life, or the parent who promises ice cream sundaes for dinner and no homework, ever?

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
And let me guess.. it's purely the brokers fault right?

Obviously not, but are you going to try and argue that the brokers did not play a very large role here? They are supposed to be the professionals. Their job is to be paid to be knowledgeable and provide those without the knowledge what they need to know in order to make an informed and responsible decision. They failed. They didn't put a gun to the buyer's head but they certainly handed over a loaded weapon to that buyer and convinced them that pulling the trigger without aiming was anything but reckless.

The people are partially responsible too which greatly depends on the case. The government and their fucking retarded move in the 80s to deregulate was also a MAJOR cornerstone with this mess. The Keating Five which includes John McCain didn't exactly contribute towards "fixing" the Savings and Loans crisis either.

It is all one huge cluster fuck.

Brokers are and were merely salespeople. Any buyer trusting a salesperson is just asking to get screwed. I blame buyers, and buyers alone.

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: Dari
I hate to be crass but these two entities are nothing more than children whom have been given permission to do as they pleased by their parents (the government). You can blame the child if something goes wrong but sombody is eventually going to ask: "Where were the parents?". Most American are hardworking and it is a stupid assertion to blame us all for the ultimate failings of the government. Remember, many saw this crisis coming from a long distance. However, those in government just made weak warnings and did little when the market was hot. They are the ones to blame, not hardworking Americans.

Does everyone being a bunch of children really work in a Democracy? Seems to me Communism and Fascism is more for children. Democracy is for people who are in control of their system.. after all who gets to pick their parents?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
And let me guess.. it's purely the brokers fault right?

Obviously not, but are you going to try and argue that the brokers did not play a very large role here? They are supposed to be the professionals. Their job is to be paid to be knowledgeable and provide those without the knowledge what they need to know in order to make an informed and responsible decision. They failed. They didn't put a gun to the buyer's head but they certainly handed over a loaded weapon to that buyer and convinced them that pulling the trigger without aiming was anything but reckless.

The people are partially responsible too which greatly depends on the case. The government and their fucking retarded move in the 80s to deregulate was also a MAJOR cornerstone with this mess. The Keating Five which includes John McCain didn't exactly contribute towards "fixing" the Savings and Loans crisis either.

It is all one huge cluster fuck.

Brokers are and were merely salespeople. Any buyer trusting a salesperson is just asking to get screwed. I blame buyers, and buyers alone.

There is a huge difference between going door to door selling steak knives or trying to get that customer to buy that new laptop at best buy vs selling real estate which people depend on to live and raise their families in. These are people's homes. They are not products that anyone can just throw away if they break. There is a certain level of responsibility which must be upheld on both sides of the fence. To strictly place all responsibility on just one side is completely ludicrous. This is especially true considering that if you do place all responsibility on the buyer's side of the fence and too many of them fuck up then it will not be just them who gets the short end of the stick. People like me also get that short end regardless of whether or not the government decides to spend a tax dollars in the process.


Also, read up on the following. Educate yourself on why all of this really happened. The answer stems from deregulation.

Savings and Loans Crisis
Keating Five

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: Dari
Wrong. The banks are not at fault. The American people are not at fault. It is the government that is at fault. The government removed the "Chinese wall" in the banking system that separated investment bankers from analysts. The government let bankers write most of the modern banking laws, making it partial to a certain group at the expense of stability (which was the purpose of the banking laws from the 1930s). The government failed and most Americans, who were prudent with their money, are going to have to foot the bill simply because these banks and insurance companies are "too big to fail".

Simply put, Wall Street played the hand it was dealt and many people bought homes they simply could not afford. I hate to be crass but these two entities are nothing more than children whom have been given permission to do as they pleased by their parents (the government). You can blame the child if something goes wrong but sombody is eventually going to ask: "Where were the parents?". Most American are hardworking and it is a stupid assertion to blame us all for the ultimate failings of the government. Remember, many saw this crisis coming from a long distance. However, those in government just made weak warnings and did little when the market was hot. They are the ones to blame, not hardworking Americans.

People aren't children, and gov't is not the parent. If those roles are correct, why should the people be allowed to elect the gov't? Do you trust a child to chose a parent? Will the child chose the responsible parent who may be tough on them in the short-term, but ultimately prepare them better for life, or the parent who promises ice cream sundaes for dinner and no homework, ever?

Government are largely responsible for creating the environment in which we operate. They make the rules and regulations. Democracy is one type of government. Of course, the government is a product of the people but that does not change the fact it leads the people even though we have a romantic view of government being the servant of the people.

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
And let me guess.. it's purely the brokers fault right?

Obviously not, but are you going to try and argue that the brokers did not play a very large role here? They are supposed to be the professionals. Their job is to be paid to be knowledgeable and provide those without the knowledge what they need to know in order to make an informed and responsible decision. They failed. They didn't put a gun to the buyer's head but they certainly handed over a loaded weapon to that buyer and convinced them that pulling the trigger without aiming was anything but reckless.

The people are partially responsible too which greatly depends on the case. The government and their fucking retarded move in the 80s to deregulate was also a MAJOR cornerstone with this mess. The Keating Five which includes John McCain didn't exactly contribute towards "fixing" the Savings and Loans crisis either.

It is all one huge cluster fuck.

Brokers are and were merely salespeople. Any buyer trusting a salesperson is just asking to get screwed. I blame buyers, and buyers alone.

Is your assumption that all brokers presented the information in a clear and honest way?

Here is what is mind boggling:

When Bear Stearns collapsed and the gov't and finance experts went in to assess the situation... they couldn't even FIND OUT what the hell Bear Stearns owned! Meaning they saw 20 BILLION on the BOOKS and Bear said 'um, we don't know what it is'. Can you imagine that?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: Dari
I hate to be crass but these two entities are nothing more than children whom have been given permission to do as they pleased by their parents (the government). You can blame the child if something goes wrong but sombody is eventually going to ask: "Where were the parents?". Most American are hardworking and it is a stupid assertion to blame us all for the ultimate failings of the government. Remember, many saw this crisis coming from a long distance. However, those in government just made weak warnings and did little when the market was hot. They are the ones to blame, not hardworking Americans.

Does everyone being a bunch of children really work in a Democracy? Seems to me Communism and Fascism is more for children. Democracy is for people who are in control of their system.. after all who gets to pick their parents?

What do you look for in a leader? Intelligence, good judgement, great communication skills and an ability to work with others. Those abilities usually come with experience, but not always. One difference between democracies and other forms of government is our trust in the rules of law rather than individuals. We may elect leadership but we expect them to lead by consensus (rather than decree). This goes back to the aforementioned qualities we seek in our leader. This type of leadership, with the rules of law, is slow but a slow system is a stable system. This all goes back to my original assertion that the government has failed in its objective, instead delegating its job to others instead of finding the necessary consensus that was paramount in providing the stability that we had in our banking system following the Great Depression.

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
And let me guess.. it's purely the brokers fault right?

Obviously not, but are you going to try and argue that the brokers did not play a very large role here? They are supposed to be the professionals. Their job is to be paid to be knowledgeable and provide those without the knowledge what they need to know in order to make an informed and responsible decision. They failed. They didn't put a gun to the buyer's head but they certainly handed over a loaded weapon to that buyer and convinced them that pulling the trigger without aiming was anything but reckless.

The people are partially responsible too which greatly depends on the case. The government and their fucking retarded move in the 80s to deregulate was also a MAJOR cornerstone with this mess. The Keating Five which includes John McCain didn't exactly contribute towards "fixing" the Savings and Loans crisis either.

It is all one huge cluster fuck.

Why does the average American who makes 35K a year with a wife who is a part-time hair dresser feel they are entitled to a 3200 sq ft McMansion? What goes through the brain to tell them they can afford something that 20 years ago only the rich could have?

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
And let me guess.. it's purely the brokers fault right?

Obviously not, but are you going to try and argue that the brokers did not play a very large role here? They are supposed to be the professionals. Their job is to be paid to be knowledgeable and provide those without the knowledge what they need to know in order to make an informed and responsible decision. They failed. They didn't put a gun to the buyer's head but they certainly handed over a loaded weapon to that buyer and convinced them that pulling the trigger without aiming was anything but reckless.

The people are partially responsible too which greatly depends on the case. The government and their fucking retarded move in the 80s to deregulate was also a MAJOR cornerstone with this mess. The Keating Five which includes John McCain didn't exactly contribute towards "fixing" the Savings and Loans crisis either.

It is all one huge cluster fuck.

Why does the average American who makes 35K a year with a wife who is a part-time hair dresser feel they are entitled to a 3200 sq ft McMansion? What goes through the brain to tell them they can afford something that 20 years ago only the rich could have?

What goes through their brain is the low monthly payment. Thats how 90% of Americans calcualte if they can 'afford' something. Then when the payment blows up from 1200/month to 2500 people are shocked.

I mean what do you expect from a society where less than 20% of people understand the concept of compound interest?

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
And let me guess.. it's purely the brokers fault right?

Obviously not, but are you going to try and argue that the brokers did not play a very large role here? They are supposed to be the professionals. Their job is to be paid to be knowledgeable and provide those without the knowledge what they need to know in order to make an informed and responsible decision. They failed. They didn't put a gun to the buyer's head but they certainly handed over a loaded weapon to that buyer and convinced them that pulling the trigger without aiming was anything but reckless.

The people are partially responsible too which greatly depends on the case. The government and their fucking retarded move in the 80s to deregulate was also a MAJOR cornerstone with this mess. The Keating Five which includes John McCain didn't exactly contribute towards "fixing" the Savings and Loans crisis either.

It is all one huge cluster fuck.

Why does the average American who makes 35K a year with a wife who is a part-time hair dresser feel they are entitled to a 3200 sq ft McMansion? What goes through the brain to tell them they can afford something that 20 years ago only the rich could have?

What goes through their brain is the low monthly payment. Thats how 90% of Americans calcualte if they can 'afford' something. Then when the payment blows up from 1200/month to 2500 people are shocked.

I mean what do you expect from a society where less than 20% of people understand the concept of compound interest?

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: GTKeeper

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
And let me guess.. it's purely the brokers fault right?

Obviously not, but are you going to try and argue that the brokers did not play a very large role here? They are supposed to be the professionals. Their job is to be paid to be knowledgeable and provide those without the knowledge what they need to know in order to make an informed and responsible decision. They failed. They didn't put a gun to the buyer's head but they certainly handed over a loaded weapon to that buyer and convinced them that pulling the trigger without aiming was anything but reckless.

The people are partially responsible too which greatly depends on the case. The government and their fucking retarded move in the 80s to deregulate was also a MAJOR cornerstone with this mess. The Keating Five which includes John McCain didn't exactly contribute towards "fixing" the Savings and Loans crisis either.

It is all one huge cluster fuck.

Brokers are and were merely salespeople. Any buyer trusting a salesperson is just asking to get screwed. I blame buyers, and buyers alone.

Is your assumption that all brokers presented the information in a clear and honest way?

Of course not. I assume all salespeople are liars until proven otherwise. This is why, anytime I'm looking to spend any significant amount of money (and I've bought a house, and refinanced a mortgage, so I've done these things personally), I always just ask to see the contract, and verify the terms myself. As far as I'm concerned, the salesperson can just shut up, because I believe not one word they say, so they might as well not say anything. I only believe the contract, and any related legal papers. If any purchase ever ends up in court, it's not going to matter what the broker said, it's going to matter what the contract says. And I read every word. If a closing takes longer because of me, tough luck. I advise everyone I know to do likewise.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: GTKeeper

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
And let me guess.. it's purely the brokers fault right?

Obviously not, but are you going to try and argue that the brokers did not play a very large role here? They are supposed to be the professionals. Their job is to be paid to be knowledgeable and provide those without the knowledge what they need to know in order to make an informed and responsible decision. They failed. They didn't put a gun to the buyer's head but they certainly handed over a loaded weapon to that buyer and convinced them that pulling the trigger without aiming was anything but reckless.

The people are partially responsible too which greatly depends on the case. The government and their fucking retarded move in the 80s to deregulate was also a MAJOR cornerstone with this mess. The Keating Five which includes John McCain didn't exactly contribute towards "fixing" the Savings and Loans crisis either.

It is all one huge cluster fuck.

Why does the average American who makes 35K a year with a wife who is a part-time hair dresser feel they are entitled to a 3200 sq ft McMansion? What goes through the brain to tell them they can afford something that 20 years ago only the rich could have?

What goes through their brain is the low monthly payment. Thats how 90% of Americans calcualte if they can 'afford' something. Then when the payment blows up from 1200/month to 2500 people are shocked.

I mean what do you expect from a society where less than 20% of people understand the concept of compound interest?

Then these people need to lose their homes. There's no teacher like experience.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Our current economic situation certainly plays to the Democrats, but the fact remains that Washington is already late to the table in addressing the lack of oversight and widespread greed that created this crisis in the first place.

Both Obama and McCain are still acting Senators. I don't care what plans they will implement once they become President...February is even later still for engaging this crisis.

The current economic situation is an ample opportunity for either Obama or McCain to perform their duties as Senators, return to Washington, and LEAD Congress through its current partisan divide on addressing the situation.
Instead, both candidates remain on the campaign trail, releasing talking points on how they will solve the problem as President...but as Senators, they are both in a better position to solve the problem today...yet they are afraid to engage the issue fully for fear of getting boxed into a situation that will cost them the election.

Obama released his 8 point plan...McCain has his own remedy...but their solutions are flip sides to the same coin...reactive solutions to soothe the populace in a election year, but not much else.
Also...and this is what really gets me going...neither candidate has the courage to tell the American people that if we want to place blame for the current economic situation, we should first look in the mirror...banks did engage in faulty lending practices, and Wall Street packaged those loans into high risk securities...but WE, the American people, are the ones who purchased those loans and fed the Wall Street machine...no one put a gun to our heads to take loans we could not pay to purchase homes we could not afford.

Don't they just cancell each other out, then?

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: GTKeeper

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
And let me guess.. it's purely the brokers fault right?

Obviously not, but are you going to try and argue that the brokers did not play a very large role here? They are supposed to be the professionals. Their job is to be paid to be knowledgeable and provide those without the knowledge what they need to know in order to make an informed and responsible decision. They failed. They didn't put a gun to the buyer's head but they certainly handed over a loaded weapon to that buyer and convinced them that pulling the trigger without aiming was anything but reckless.

The people are partially responsible too which greatly depends on the case. The government and their fucking retarded move in the 80s to deregulate was also a MAJOR cornerstone with this mess. The Keating Five which includes John McCain didn't exactly contribute towards "fixing" the Savings and Loans crisis either.

It is all one huge cluster fuck.

Brokers are and were merely salespeople. Any buyer trusting a salesperson is just asking to get screwed. I blame buyers, and buyers alone.

Is your assumption that all brokers presented the information in a clear and honest way?

Of course not. I assume all salespeople are liars until proven otherwise. This is why, anytime I'm looking to spend any significant amount of money (and I've bought a house, and refinanced a mortgage, so I've done these things personally), I always just ask to see the contract, and verify the terms myself. As far as I'm concerned, the salesperson can just shut up, because I believe not one word they say, so they might as well not say anything. I only believe the contract, and any related legal papers. If any purchase ever ends up in court, it's not going to matter what the broker said, it's going to matter what the contract says. And I read every word. If a closing takes longer because of me, tough luck. I advise everyone I know to do likewise.

Agreed. The information is out there and it's free in most cases. I am not at all a financial person, I suck badly at math, without cheating (yes I cheated) I would not have passed HS algebra. But I still learned what it means to have a compound interest loan, I know how amortization works. and as of today I own 64% equity of my MODEST house. Payoff will be in May of 2010 even in a crap economy.

If you can't handle doing these things on THE BIGGEST PURCHASE OF YOUR LIFE then renting is for you.