Where is the "progressive" outrage?

[Patranus]

Where is the "progressive" outrage?

When a health insurance company raises its rates, it is vilified by the "progressives" yet when the government does something similar there is no outrage.

Households that get their power from the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power could see their electric bills go up between 8.8% and 28.4%, depending on where they live and how much energy they use, under a plan unveiled Monday by Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa.

Appearing with labor and environmental leaders, Villaraigosa said the proposed increases would ensure that the DWP meets his goal of securing 20% of its energy from renewable sources such as wind and solar by Dec. 31.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/15/local/la-me-dwp-rates16-2010mar16

How many of you got a 28% pay increase recently?

 

[MJinZ]

I don't care about LA. California is about as progressive as they are gay-marriage friendly. Which is to say, not yet.

 

[HumblePie]

Where is the "progressive" outrage?

When a health insurance company raises its rates, it is vilified by the "progressives" yet when the government does something similar there is no outrage.


http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/15/local/la-me-dwp-rates16-2010mar16

How many of you got a 28% pay increase recently?

So a 28% electric bill increases needs a 28% income increase to cover it? This is not a 1 to 1 relationship here so that silly scare tactic is dumb.

Considering my monthly bill is $100 on average for electricity, then that's another $28 a month. It would suck for sure, but $28 bucks isn't even 1% of my monthly income.

However, a 28% increase on my health insurance costs is a bit different. Considering it's about $1050 a month for me... yah, another almost $300 is a bit more harder to swallow.

 

[her209]

Does the OP understand why the public is outraged over the double digit increase in premiums?

 

[DaveSimmons]

People can turn off lights in other rooms, raise the AC temperature, not leave computers on 24/7, etc. to cut their costs from wasting power.

They can't tape a burst appendix back together.

> depending on where they live and how much energy they use, ...

Sounds like the ones with a 28% raise will be the ones wasting the most or with McMansions.

But I'd like more information on how much extra typical lower- and middle-class customers will be paying -- is it the 8%? If so, I can't work up much outrage given California's power problems, it will just reduce the rolling blackouts a little as people conserve more.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Since when is LA light and power "the government" ?

 

[Atheus]

What on earth are you talking about? Outrage against govornment is one of the main passtimes of humanity - have you ever heard of something called a daily 'news paper'? I'm sure if you check those you'll find a few examples...

 

[PeshakJang]

People can turn off lights in other rooms, raise the AC temperature, not leave computers on 24/7, etc. to cut their costs from wasting power.

They can't tape a burst appendix back together.

> depending on where they live and how much energy they use, ...

Sounds like the ones with a 28% raise will be the ones wasting the most or with McMansions.

But I'd like more information on how much extra typical lower- and middle-class customers will be paying -- is it the 8%? If so, I can't work up much outrage given California's power problems, it will just reduce the rolling blackouts a little as people conserve more.

People can quit smoking, take up an exercise program, stop eating fast food, stop drinking soda, etc. They certainly do have an impact on their health.

I recall that there is always outrage when people talk about raising HC premiums for smokers, or for people who are overweight, etc. This is exactly the same, no question.

If a small amount of people use more than their share of electricity, why should they pay more? If a small amount of people use more than their share of health care, why wouldn't the situation be the same?

 

[PokerGuy]

OP, don't you know by now? For a "progressive" anything a private corporation does is evil, anything the wonderful benevolent government does is great and for our own good. Once you buy into that premise, it's easy being "progressive".

 

[Harvey]

OP, don't you know by now? For a "progressive" anything a private corporation does is evil, anything the wonderful benevolent government does is great and for our own good. Once you buy into that premise, it's easy being "progressive".

It's easy to buy into that premise once you see people suffer and die because a private corporation like Anthem/Blue Cross raises their premiums 40% while raking in billions in profits and giving their execs mega bucks in bonuses and golden parachutes.

It's even easier to buy into that premise once you see private corporations like the Wall Street robber barons undercut the life savings of honest, hard working Americans with derivatives, credit default swaps and other wild speculative ventures, only to be bailed out by those same working Americans while similarly raking in billions in profits and giving their execs mega-bucks in bonuses and golden parachutes.

And it's even easier to buy into that premise once you American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan suffer and die because private corporations like Haliburton and KBR defraud the American people with continuous shoddy work and fraud on their no bid contracts.

Yep! Once you buy into that premise, it's very easy to be a "progressive"... unless you're one of those benefitting frin all of that corporate greed and corruption or you're otherwise without ethics, morals or any form of conscience.

 

[theeedude]

Where is the "progressive" outrage?

When a health insurance company raises its rates, it is vilified by the "progressives" yet when the government does something similar there is no outrage.


http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/15/local/la-me-dwp-rates16-2010mar16

How many of you got a 28% pay increase recently?

So you concede that health insurance needs to be regulated like a public utility?

 

[daishi5]

Since when is LA light and power "the government" ?

Aren't they government regulated, where the government has to approve price increases, and it sounds like they are increasing prices to meet government mandated "green energy" initiatives.

Most of his post is garbage, such as the 28% pay increase, and his comparison to health insurance companies is not valid because the reason for this increase is not even close to the reason people are upset about health insurance premium increases. But, there is at least one nugget of truth in there, the governments attempts to push "renewable energy" is going to increase the cost of living of the citizens.

 

[theeedude]

You only need to go back to CA energy crisis to see how much better managed LADWP is than private utility companies. LADWP was prudent enough to plan ahead and was actually able to sell excess power to private utility companies which were caught with their pants down.

 

[theeedude]

Aren't they government regulated, where the government has to approve price increases, and it sounds like they are increasing prices to meet government mandated "green energy" initiatives.

Most of his post is garbage, such as the 28% pay increase, and his comparison to health insurance companies is not valid because the reason for this increase is not even close to the reason people are upset about health insurance premium increases. But, there is at least one nugget of truth in there, the governments attempts to push "renewable energy" is going to increase the cost of living of the citizens.

There is a benefit for people from using renewable energy. Less dependence on foreign sources, energy security, environment, etc. There is no benefit from giving extra 37% to insurance company and getting same or less coverage.

 

[HumblePie]

People can quit smoking, take up an exercise program, stop eating fast food, stop drinking soda, etc. They certainly do have an impact on their health.

I recall that there is always outrage when people talk about raising HC premiums for smokers, or for people who are overweight, etc. This is exactly the same, no question.

If a small amount of people use more than their share of electricity, why should they pay more? If a small amount of people use more than their share of health care, why wouldn't the situation be the same?

Yah, because that can certainly help people with cancer, Parkinsons disease, MS, mental health issues, and a plethora of other problems stemming from hereditary and/or circumstantial factors not controllable by anyone.

Get a clue. Medical needs =/= electrical usage. People can stop playing their xbox for a little bit if they want to save over that 8% increase. People HAVE to pay more when premiums go up whether they are healthy or not.

 

[Balt]

Where is the "progressive" outrage?

When a health insurance company raises its rates, it is vilified by the "progressives" yet when the government does something similar there is no outrage.


http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/15/local/la-me-dwp-rates16-2010mar16

How many of you got a 28% pay increase recently?

I'm sure plenty of local people will raise a stink who are actually affected by the changes, but since LA W&P isn't something most people in the country are going to care about, I'm not sure why you think it would spark some kind of national outrage.

Your post is nonsense.

 

[daishi5]

There is a benefit for people from using renewable energy. Less dependence on foreign sources, energy security, environment, etc. There is no benefit from giving extra 37% to insurance company and getting same or less coverage.

That would be true regarding no benefit, if the actual expenses of health care were remaining stagnant. With health care costs rising, the benefits of the increase in premiums is keeping the insurance because the company cannot continue to exist if its costs rise rapidly and it sees no increase in revenue to cover those costs.

I see two main complaints about health care in the US that seem strange to me, health insurance costs, and health care costs. Health insurance revenue goes to pay the health care costs. I don't see any reason to blame health insurance companies for raising their rates, if their money is going to pay for the higher health care costs. I see a lot of fingers pointed at health insurance companies blaming them for high health care costs, but I don't see any evidence to back that up. Health insurance profit margins are very low and have been getting lower. I wonder if we are attacking a windmill while we ignore a real giant.

 

[PeshakJang]

Yah, because that can certainly help people with cancer, Parkinsons disease, MS, mental health issues, and a plethora of other problems stemming from hereditary and/or circumstantial factors not controllable by anyone.

Get a clue. Medical needs =/= electrical usage. People can stop playing their xbox for a little bit if they want to save over that 8% increase. People HAVE to pay more when premiums go up whether they are healthy or not.

Most people have to use electricity more when temperatures drop below zero, most have to use more power when temperatures get extremely high for extended times... how is that any different?

If people in this country actually cared about how much medical treatment cost, we would have a massive movement toward health and fitness... instead we have people constantly trying to tell us that it is ok to be fat, or ok to eat whatever you want, and all backed up with the idea that healthcare should be there to save us from whatever we did to ourselves, no matter the cost to others. Human life is priceless to everyone in the society, except the person who's life it is. People want to waste health care like they waste electricity, instead of using it for unexpected, serious expenses. We can use less electricity to save money, and we can use less healthcare to save money. THAT is the similarity.

 

[HumblePie]

Most people have to use electricity more when temperatures drop below zero, most have to use more power when temperatures get extremely high for extended times... how is that any different?

Uhhh.... no they don't.

I hate to break it to you, but not to long ago, there was no such thing as usable electricity. People got along just fine. When it was too cold they burned something. When it was too hot they went swimming, wore less, sat in the shade, and dealt with the heat. Here's a little factoid for you. People still live like this even today, even here in America. One only has to use the Amish as an example.

However, never has humanity gone without healthcare in some way, shape, or form. Be it modern medicine, leeches, poultices, simple bandages, splints, or you name it. As long as humans have been living on this planet they've been getting injured, sick, dying, and needed treatment. People can go without electricity. It won't kill them. People can't go without health care. That WILL kill them.

 

[boomerang]

The progressives love costs going up. When it's associated with energy, that's even better. Remember, this is the crowd that supports cap and trade.

Our dear leader said, and I will paraphrase;
"Under my program of cap and trade, energy costs would necessarily skyrocket".

This, is some good shit right here. Raising costs is a good thing. It's even better in a recession.

 

[EndGame]

Uhhh.... no they don't.

I hate to break it to you, but not to long ago, there was no such thing as usable electricity. People got along just fine. When it was too cold they burned something. When it was too hot they went swimming, wore less, sat in the shade, and dealt with the heat. Here's a little factoid for you. People still live like this even today, even here in America. One only has to use the Amish as an example.

However, never has humanity gone without healthcare in some way, shape, or form. Be it modern medicine, leeches, poultices, simple bandages, splints, or you name it. As long as humans have been living on this planet they've been getting injured, sick, dying, and needed treatment. People can go without electricity. It won't kill them. People can't go without health care. That WILL kill them.

Um, he's a bit of info for you........until the mid/late 70's, the VAST majority in this country had either only catastrophic/major medical healthcare coverage or NONE! People didn't go to the doctor for every little ache and pain.

What needs to be done is fixing healthcare in this nation piece by piece......not an across the board all or nothing overhaul. First figure a way to get all citizens catastrophic/major medical insurance.

Second, work on cost. It's kind of odd that if you go to a "General Practioner" for flu or whatever and tell them you don't have insurance.......the bill is HALF of what it is if you DO have insurance. Put controls on the insurance companies the same way utlilities/auto insurance etc. is regulated.

Third end the frivolous lawsuits and cap settlements.

Another would be Pharmacy costs.........etc., etc., etc..

Form committies to work on each part and pass them seperately then see how each is working and "tweak" until each is working correctly.

Pass a "complete overhaul" and mark my words, things will be MUCH worse than you can imagine.

 

[PeshakJang]

Uhhh.... no they don't.

I hate to break it to you, but not to long ago, there was no such thing as usable electricity. People got along just fine. When it was too cold they burned something. When it was too hot they went swimming, wore less, sat in the shade, and dealt with the heat. Here's a little factoid for you. People still live like this even today, even here in America. One only has to use the Amish as an example.

A significant portion of the population? Elderly people die every year when it gets too hot. Electricity usage goes up drastically during hot and cold periods. How many people living in apartments have fireplaces or access to pools? All of them?

However, never has humanity gone without healthcare in some way, shape, or form. Be it modern medicine, leeches, poultices, simple bandages, splints, or you name it. As long as humans have been living on this planet they've been getting injured, sick, dying, and needed treatment. People can go without electricity. It won't kill them. People can't go without health care. That WILL kill them.

This has nothing to to with going without healthcare. You are trying to twist the argument. This has to do with a company charging more for a service that the consumer has the ability to control the demand.

If we were facing skyrocketing electric costs, such as is a minor case in the OP... you say people have the ability to use less. I say that in the case of skyrocketing health insurance costs, people have the ability to use less. The main difference being that the offset of costs for electricity would be immediate, while the offset of costs for healthcare would be over time, as overall costs came down. Problem being, people don't see past their immediate situation, and I am sure you could freely admit, to the long term benefits. If they go to the doctor for a cold, or if they suffer from an unhealthy lifestyle, their insurance pays for it, but rates go up because of the greedy insurance companies... not because of the thousands of people doing the same. Likewise... electricity rates go up not because I leave my lights on when I leave... but because of the thousands of people like me who do the same.

It's not my fault.

 

[nobodyknows]

So you concede that health insurance needs to be regulated like a public utility?

But...but... but that's different.

 

[shadow9d9]

People can quit smoking, take up an exercise program, stop eating fast food, stop drinking soda, etc. They certainly do have an impact on their health.

I recall that there is always outrage when people talk about raising HC premiums for smokers, or for people who are overweight, etc. This is exactly the same, no question.

If a small amount of people use more than their share of electricity, why should they pay more? If a small amount of people use more than their share of health care, why wouldn't the situation be the same?

Your health is not relevant to premium increases, insurance denials, etc. My 25 year old(at the time) 5'8, 130 pound wife was denied insurance by every carrier in the state of Florida because she was diagnosed with a syndrome that required her to take one pill for one month to get pregnant.

Your ignorance is astounding.

 

[Patranus]

This has nothing to to with going without healthcare. You are trying to twist the argument. This has to do with a company charging more for a service that the consumer has the ability to control the demand.

It is a city service not a private company.
There is no "choice and competition" in the energy market.

If I wanted to CHOOCE to buy energy from a company at lower prices but they didn't have an "green" mandate that should be my choice. Conversely, I should be able to pay a higher rate to support a "green" mandate.

This is the government forcing a rate increase to pay for its pet projects because it don't have to compete with the private sector.