Where Does The Constitution Grant Authority To The Government To Regulate Education?

[Patranus]

The Supreme Court has turned away a challenge by school districts and teacher unions to the federal No Child Left Behind law.

The court said without comment Monday that it will not step into a lawsuit that questioned whether public schools have to comply with requirements of the law if the federal government doesn't pay for them.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/06/07/national/w073110D43.DTL&tsp=1

So the question of the day is - What relevant sections of the federal constitution grants the authority to the federal government to regulate education?

Now when you have something like drinking while driving the federal government uses its ability to spend money to control states by telling them they will withhold funding. In this case, no funding is being provided to have the state mandate the changes.
(Something I am also very much against)

 

[Linflas]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/06/07/national/w073110D43.DTL&tsp=1

So the question of the day is - What relevant sections of the federal constitution grants the authority to the federal government to regulate education?

Now when you have something like drinking while driving the federal government uses its ability to spend money to control states by telling them they will withhold funding. In this case, no funding is being provided to have the state mandate the changes.
(Something I am also very much against)

Actually they only have the authority because the states willingly cede it to them by taking the cash. Same as the old 55MPH speed limit. Note that the "penalty" even in this case is loss of Federal funds. I would love to see a more detailed article regarding this case, the one at the link really provides very little information.

 

[Vette73]

YEA!!! another Patranus "where in the Constitution..." troll threads.

 

[spidey07]

YEA!!! another Patranus "where in the Constitution..." troll threads.

Answer the question. It doesn't.

Linflas pretty much nailed why it has developed this way. If more free states start telling the fed to fuck off the better our union will be.

My wife works in education and her opinion is like most of her colleagues. NCLB was a great idea, poorly implemented with bad unintended consequences. Race to the top is far, far worse and take the problems with NCLB and makes them larger.

 

[Patranus]

Actually they only have the authority because the states willingly cede it to them by taking the cash. Same as the old 55MPH speed limit. Note that the "penalty" even in this case is loss of Federal funds. I would love to see a more detailed article regarding this case, the one at the link really provides very little information.

Incorrect.

In this specific case there is no funding being given so there is no indirect mandate.

 

[palehorse]

YEA!!! another Patranus "where in the Constitution..." troll threads.

Yeahhhh! Damn him and his pesky little debates about that pesky piece of paper! Who the hell does he think he is?!

Our Federal Government knows better than Patranus and all of us, so what's there to even discuss, right?

Amiright?!

 

[spidey07]

Incorrect.

In this specific case there is no funding being given so there is no indirect mandate.

It's always about the money, directly or not.

 

[TheBDB]

I believe the Commerce clause in Article 1 Section 8 has been successfully argued before the Supreme Court as justification for government regulation of education.

 

[Linflas]

Incorrect.

In this specific case there is no funding being given so there is no indirect mandate.

In the end though the only penalty for this district is the loss of Federal funds. If they really want the Feds out of their business then they should be happy to give up those funds and run the schools as they see fit. We had a governor here that refused to take Federal funds for education for exactly this reason and the Dems and Washington Post used to mercilessly harp on how he "didn't care about the children". Now the schools system administrators and teachers are constantly screaming about being held to the NCLB standards but they continue to take the cash.

 

[Throckmorton]

I don't know but I assume it's the part Thomas Jefferson wrote to try to prevent places like Alabama from being third world hellholes that include "voodoo" in school curriculums.

 

[Linflas]

I don't know but I assume it's the part Thomas Jefferson wrote to try to prevent places like Alabama from being third world hellholes that include "voodoo" in school curriculums.

Where did you receive your fine education? I bet a typical Alabama high school student knows that Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence and was not even in the United States when the Constitutional Convention took place.

 

[Throckmorton]

Where did you receive your fine education? I bet a typical Alabama high school student knows that Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence and was not even in the United States when the Constitutional Convention took place.

Texas

 

[CycloWizard]

I don't know but I assume it's the part Thomas Jefferson wrote to try to prevent places like Alabama from being third world hellholes that include "voodoo" in school curriculums.

You're ignorant, but you'll assume that it's the government's job to prevent someone else from becoming ignorant. Imagine that.

 

[Patranus]

You're ignorant, but you'll assume that it's the government's job to prevent someone else from becoming ignorant. Imagine that.

The question is not governments role rather which level of government has the responsibility to fulfill that role.

 

[Turin39789]

So is this thread part of your process of warming us up to Rand Paul's opposition to the the Dept of Ed?

 

[palehorse]

I don't know but I assume it's the part Thomas Jefferson wrote to try to prevent places like Alabama from being third world hellholes that include "voodoo" in school curriculums.

Jefferson!?

 

[Red Dawn]

If more free states start telling the fed to fuck off the better our union will be.

Well at least the states that don't depend of the Feds Money which would exclude a good portion the the Rust belt and the South.

 

[Patranus]

So is this thread part of your process of warming us up to Rand Paul's opposition to the the Dept of Ed?

What doest he department of education accomplish aside from returning pennies on the dollar in the form of a political favor to fund education?

I want 100% (or close to it) of my dollar to go to education and the only way to ensure this is to tax at a local level and have it go directly to the district/school.

 

[CycloWizard]

Well at least the states that don't depend of the Feds Money which would exclude a good portion the the Rust belt and the South.

Hehe. I love the outrage of those who vote for higher taxes and government involvement, then hold it over the heads of those who take part in the now-mandatory programs. If these states refuse federal education money, they will still have to pay in to the federal programs, so they're screwed no matter what.

 

[Turin39789]

What doest he department of education accomplish aside from returning pennies on the dollar in the form of a political favor to fund education?

I want 100% (or close to it) of my dollar to go to education and the only way to ensure this is to tax at a local level and have it go directly to the district/school.

Thank you for the clear answer.

 

[woolfe9999]

Incorrect.

In this specific case there is no funding being given so there is no indirect mandate.

No, you're wrong and Linfas is correct. The teacher's unions are complaining about having to implement NCLB requirements when the federal government is not specifically paying for the requirements to be implemented. However, the federal government is still providing funding to these schools, and is conditioning that funding on compliance with NCLB and any other applicable federal regulations. Accordingly, compliance is technically optional. They have the choice to not comply and then not receive federal funds. It's just like with Medicaid. There are certain federal requirements for how a Medicaid program must be run, and federal contributions are contingent on compliance with those requirements. However, a state may opt out of Medicaid and have no state program at all, or create their own state program that does not comply, and receive no federal funds. The federal government isn't forcing the regulations on anyone; they are holding out a wad of cash as incentive, and saying, take the cash and the regulations, or eschew both the cash and the regulations. Your choice. That's why it isn't a Constitutional issue.

- wolf

 

[Linflas]

Well at least the states that don't depend of the Feds Money which would exclude a good portion the the Rust belt and the South.

Really? A quick check on DoE's site shows that California, New York, Massachusetts, and Connecticut all have their hands in the NCLB cookie jar.

 

[Red Dawn]

Hehe. I love the outrage of those who vote for higher taxes and government involvement, then hold it over the heads of those who take part in the now-mandatory programs. If these states refuse federal education money, they will still have to pay in to the federal programs, so they're screwed no matter what.

What outrage? I'm just stating a lot of these states get back more from the Feds than they pay out to them.

 

[HumblePie]

Ahh, something I can side with Patranus on. Very rare indeed. But just look to the man that instituted this stupid law and take it up with him.

 

[Linflas]

Ahh, something I can side with Patranus on. Very rare indeed. But just look to the man that instituted this stupid law and take it up with him.

Who would that be? I assume you want to blame Bush but the Carter administration came up with the DoE and NCLB is just the logical end result of having a Federal Department devoted to education. The part of NCLB that seems to give teachers and administrators heartburn is that there is a performance requirement attached to taking the money, the Feds are not just going to take their word for it that they are actually achieving set goals with the funds they want to see proof and, like it or not, proof in education generally involves testing. By no means am I defending NCLB, I would love to see it and DoE go poof today if possible. But if it is going to exist and shovel out tax money to localities then the least we can expect is some showing that the money is not just being wasted.