Where Did the Money Go for Clunkers?

[piasabird]

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/cash-for-clunkers-cost-24k-per-car

Being an enquiring mind, I want to know what the Government spent all the Clunker money on?

To conduct the analysis, the Edmunds.com team of PhDs and statisticians examined the sales trend for luxury vehicles and others not included in Cash for Clunkers, and applied the historic relationship of those vehicles to total SAAR to make informed estimates. These estimates were independently verified through careful examination of sales patterns reflected by transaction data. Once the numbers were determined, Edmunds.com’s analysts divided three billion dollars by 125,000 vehicles to arrive at the average $24,000 per vehicle…

So where did all the rest of the money go? $24,000 - $5,000 per care leaves a waste of $19,000 per car. The answer is your government stole that money.

 

[KK]

I couldn't imagine the government pissing away hard earned tax payers money. And I most definately don't see the democrats being the ones to draft such legistation that would allow such waste. How dare you talk bad about this democratic lead government.

 

[DuffmanOhYeah]

So where did all the rest of the money go? $24,000 - $5,000 per care leaves a waste of $19,000 per car. The answer is your government stole that money.

The government didnt steal it. They just handed it out to folks who would have bought a fuel efficient car without the incentive. $24k is the amount paid by the gubmint to induce those otherwise not inclined to trade in their car for a new, "eco-friendly" car to do so.

 

[StageLeft]

The Obama admin of course up in arms over this but the analysis is more believable than theirs. They have tried to quantify what the majority of analysts said anyway, that cash for clunkers was mostly just pulling demand forward a few months. And with the stiff drop off after it's quite impossible to refute.

 

[Robor]

The Obama admin of course up in arms over this but the analysis is more believable than theirs. They have tried to quantify what the majority of analysts said anyway, that cash for clunkers was mostly just pulling demand forward a few months. And with the stiff drop off after it's quite impossible to refute.

Couldn't that be said for all incentives/sales?

 

[boomerang]

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/cash-for-clunkers-cost-24k-per-car

Being an enquiring mind, I want to know what the Government spent all the Clunker money on?

To conduct the analysis, the Edmunds.com team of PhDs and statisticians examined the sales trend for luxury vehicles and others not included in Cash for Clunkers, and applied the historic relationship of those vehicles to total SAAR to make informed estimates. These estimates were independently verified through careful examination of sales patterns reflected by transaction data. Once the numbers were determined, Edmunds.com’s analysts divided three billion dollars by 125,000 vehicles to arrive at the average $24,000 per vehicle…

So where did all the rest of the money go? $24,000 - $5,000 per care leaves a waste of $19,000 per car. The answer is your government stole that money.

Oh, it was probably just "administrative costs" and things like that. The government operates very efficiently. When the government gets involved, the savings are bountiful. Unlike those mean corporations who are so wasteful.

58 pages of government waste

 

[Ausm]

Oh, it was probably just "administrative costs" and things like that. The government operates very efficiently. When the government gets involved, the savings are bountiful. Unlike those mean corporations who are so wasteful.

58 pages of government waste

Corporations don't waste money they shovel it to their CEO's.

 

[StageLeft]

Couldn't that be said for all incentives/sales?

Yes, and it would be true in most cases. A great % of the recent positive GDP growth was related to cars and a great deal of the car growth was related to the clunkers program.

 

[boomerang]

Corporations don't waste money they shovel it to their CEO's.

Don't forget the stockholders too.

But it's their money to do with as they please. Once the government receives revenue, their fiduciary responsibility goes right out the window. It's been proven time and time again.

Are you OK with $19K per car evaporating into thin air with no accountability whatsoever? Are you?

 

[dawp]

Don't forget the stockholders too.

But it's their money to do with as they please. Once the government receives revenue, their fiduciary responsibility goes right out the window. It's been proven time and time again.

Are you OK with $19K per car evaporating into thin air with no accountability whatsoever? Are you?

Actually it isn't, if it's a publicly traded company, it's the stockholders and if things are going to change, it's up to them.

 

[waggy]

the sarcasm is strong..

 

[Uhtrinity]

Quoted from the Edmunds article, not taken out of context like 'the blog':

Nearly 690,000 vehicles were sold during the Cash for Clunkers program, officially known as CARS, but Edmunds.com analysts calculated that only 125,000 of the sales were incremental. The rest of the sales would have happened anyway, regardless of the existence of the program.


Splitting hairs anyone? They are claiming that those people would have bought cars anyhow, so they don't count in a stimulus sense. What does it matter, the program got them to spend the money now instead of later. Those people most likely spent a little more than they would have under regular circumstances. Regardless $19,000 was not wasted per car.

 

[FerrelGeek]

So, does anyone know exactly how many cars were purchased directly as a result of CARS money? CARS_$ / TotalCarsPurchasedDueTo$ = $PerCar . I'm still betting that it's more than $3k - $5k per car.

 

[StageLeft]

Quoted from the Edmunds article, not taken out of context like 'the blog':

Nearly 690,000 vehicles were sold during the Cash for Clunkers program, officially known as CARS, but Edmunds.com analysts calculated that only 125,000 of the sales were incremental. The rest of the sales would have happened anyway, regardless of the existence of the program.


Splitting hairs anyone? They are claiming that those people would have bought cars anyhow, so they don't count in a stimulus sense. What does it matter, the program got them to spend the money now instead of later. Those people most likely spent a little more than they would have under regular circumstances. Regardless $19,000 was not wasted per car.

Speaking of splitting hairs...

Divide the stimulus amount by the 125000 and that's what the cost was.

Why is a car sold now better than later and even if it is is it worth the extra money, probably not. Nobody truly believes this was successful unless it spurred activity that would not otherwise have occurred. And pulling that activity ahead a few months does not qualify.

 

[boomerang]

Actually it isn't, if it's a publicly traded company, it's the stockholders and if things are going to change, it's up to them.

Very good. Question asked and answered. Anything to say about the waste in the clunkers program?

 

[Tom]

Speaking of splitting hairs...

Divide the stimulus amount by the 125000 and that's what the cost was.

Why is a car sold now better than later and even if it is is it worth the extra money, probably not. Nobody truly believes this was successful unless it spurred activity that would not otherwise have occurred. And pulling that activity ahead a few months does not qualify.

690000 were sold with the program, not 125000. and it certainly does matter when things happen.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yawn. Just another example of how figures don't lie, but liars do figure. 690,000 vehicle sales received cash for clunkers money. How many would have sold otherwise is a matter subject to interpretation, which will vary depending on what the interpreter is trying to "prove".

All the desperate handwaving from the Right is truly amusing, anyway. $3B is about the pricetag for a few weeks in Iraq and Afghanistan... a small portion of the bailout money sent to America's "Free Market!" bankers to keep their carcasses from adorning Wall St lampposts and the economy out of the dumpster...

 

[Zstream]

Yawn. Just another example of how figures don't lie, but liars do figure. 690,000 vehicle sales received cash for clunkers money. How many would have sold otherwise is a matter subject to interpretation, which will vary depending on what the interpreter is trying to "prove".

All the desperate handwaving from the Right is truly amusing, anyway. $3B is about the pricetag for a few weeks in Iraq and Afghanistan... a small portion of the bailout money sent to America's "Free Market!" bankers to keep their carcasses from adorning Wall St lampposts and the economy out of the dumpster...

How is it speculation or interpretation? Not all the cars sold are really new purchases, just people getting free money from the Government.

 

[PokerGuy]

690000 were sold with the program, not 125000. and it certainly does matter when things happen.

690,000 were sold, but if you read the actual analysis, 565,000 would have been sold regardless of the cash for clunkers program. In other words, the cash for clunkers resulted in a net addition of 125,000 vehicles sold. We paid $3,000,000,000 to sell an additional 125,000 vehicles, we paid $24,000 for each additional vehicle sold. Typical government program, a complete waste. When they do so well with something so simple as a car-buying credit, it's obvious we're going to save sooooo much money when they run healthcare!

 

[Brainonska511]

690,000 were sold, but if you read the actual analysis, 565,000 would have been sold regardless of the cash for clunkers program. In other words, the cash for clunkers resulted in a net addition of 125,000 vehicles sold. We paid $3,000,000,000 to sell an additional 125,000 vehicles, we paid $24,000 for each additional vehicle sold. Typical government program, a complete waste. When they do so well with something so simple as a car-buying credit, it's obvious we're going to save sooooo much money when they run healthcare!

But how are they coming to that conclusion? It seems fairly hand-wavey to say that only 125,000 extra were sold and then claim we spent $3billion to do that.

What about people that were planning on buying a car but then choose a slightly more expensive one because of the rebate or any number of other factors? What about people that were planning on buying a car, but just not going to do it immediately? Etc....

 

[Jhhnn]

How is it speculation or interpretation? Not all the cars sold are really new purchases, just people getting free money from the Government.

Everybody's trying to fluff up the state of the economy, paint a rosy picture, particularly the Right, the perps of the current imbroglio.

When the economy went into a nosedive and a deflationary spiral threatened, Our former heroes of "Free Enterprise!" reversed course, began pumping huge amounts of liquidity in at the top, to the bankers. The new admin had little choice but to follow, and to add to it, cash for clunkers being a miniscule part of it all, more of a sop to the voters and the auto industry than anything else.

Three beeeelyon dollars ain't squat in a deflationary spiral scenario. Projections as to the number of cars that would theoretically have been sold under such a scenario are rank speculation, rendering the whole exercise one of propaganda.

 

[PokerGuy]

But how are they coming to that conclusion? It seems fairly hand-wavey to say that only 125,000 extra were sold and then claim we spent $3billion to do that.

What about people that were planning on buying a car but then choose a slightly more expensive one because of the rebate or any number of other factors? What about people that were planning on buying a car, but just not going to do it immediately? Etc....

Go read the article, there's a lot of analysis that went into the numbers to figure out what was really "incremental". Even if you think that analysis is flawed, and the right incremental number was 150,000, or even 200,000, it still comes down to a huge disaster, we as the taxpayers got fleeced as usual.

 

[Moonbeam]

Did any clunkers get replaced with better mileage cars?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

When the economy went into a nosedive and a deflationary spiral threatened, Our former heroes of "Free Enterprise!" reversed course, began pumping huge amounts of liquidity in at the top, to the bankers. The new admin had little choice but to follow, and to add to it, cash for clunkers being a miniscule part of it all, more of a sop to the voters and the auto industry than anything else.

You're so full of it...if Bush didn't infuse money into the financial system at the time...total collapse was imminent...spinning this as 'free enterprise' hypocrisy is total bullshit.

 

[heyheybooboo]

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/cash-for-clunkers-cost-24k-per-car

Being an enquiring mind, I want to know what the Government spent all the Clunker money on?

To conduct the analysis, the Edmunds.com team of PhDs and statisticians examined the sales trend for luxury vehicles and others not included in Cash for Clunkers, and applied the historic relationship of those vehicles to total SAAR to make informed estimates. These estimates were independently verified through careful examination of sales patterns reflected by transaction data. Once the numbers were determined, Edmunds.com’s analysts divided three billion dollars by 125,000 vehicles to arrive at the average $24,000 per vehicle…

So where did all the rest of the money go? $24,000 - $5,000 per care leaves a waste of $19,000 per car. The answer is your government stole that money.

You should be banned as a propaganda tool. Since the auto industry pumps 3 times the cash to the GOP as they do the Dims it's only fitting that "" ...the Edmunds.com team of PhDs and statisticians... "" would lie to suit their clients needs.

1) There were 690,000 cars that received an allowance under the program. A fancy team of 'PhDs and statisticians' manipulated the data to promote an agenda;

2) Light vehicle sales have declined significantly this decade from over 22 million sold to less than 10 million sold with a huge drop occuring from Jan-08 (16 million) to date; and

3) The level of vehicles sold this year (if we are lucky) will be the lowest since the late 1970s and early 1980s.