Where are the jobs

[dahunan]

Does removing Overtime Pay help create jobs or reduce possible jobs?

Many businesses would hire temps instead of paying overtime.. now they can just force the worker to work overtime with no additional pay.. Thank you King George.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: leeboy
So what unskilled labor are you putting out of work then CAD? You made the statement, not me? Who do you honestly think you are going to put out of work by designing tooling? Get off your high horse, and shouldn't you be sleeping about now, you know, holding those tight tolerences and all must make CAD sleepy. Pft. You make a bold statement like your important work is putting people out on the street (sounded more like bragging to me which is real cool of you if that really were the case but w/e, that is what we all come to expect of you) however, just who is that if you weren't talking about the machine builders, electricians, pipe fitters, etc? Were you talking about the welders and the painters? Yes, you can put them out of work but are they really unskilled, too? Hmm, I know a few fabricators that would beg to differ with you on that issue. The floor sweepers perhaps? Come on, you said you go to work every day to put unskilled laborers out of work, fill us in on who has you to thank for cashing in that last unemployment check?

Designing tooling? WTF? Are you reading anything I post?

Anyway lets see. I helped put people who husked corn out of a job at a certain Seed Corn plant. Put in automatic husking machines. I designed the wiring and controls. I even did the programming of the PLC(except for startup) and helped with the HMI portion. You know how many people it would take to husk a corn harvest? We put in 4 new huskers last year and will do the other side of the system next year.
I designed an automatic pick/pack warehouse system. You know - where boxes are automatically picked off of 3 levels of warehouse racks and filters and such automatically to fill the order. Is stacking boxes on a pallet "skilled" labor?
I could provide more instances if you wish.

No it's only 10:30PM here. Maybe you need some sleep

Now run along - it's obvious you haven't a clue on this. Don't embarrass yourself further.

CkG

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: leeboy
So what unskilled labor are you putting out of work then CAD? You made the statement, not me? Who do you honestly think you are going to put out of work by designing tooling? Get off your high horse, and shouldn't you be sleeping about now, you know, holding those tight tolerences and all must make CAD sleepy. Pft. You make a bold statement like your important work is putting people out on the street (sounded more like bragging to me which is real cool of you if that really were the case but w/e, that is what we all come to expect of you) however, just who is that if you weren't talking about the machine builders, electricians, pipe fitters, etc? Were you talking about the welders and the painters? Yes, you can put them out of work but are they really unskilled, too? Hmm, I know a few fabricators that would beg to differ with you on that issue. The floor sweepers perhaps? Come on, you said you go to work every day to put unskilled laborers out of work, fill us in on who has you to thank for cashing in that last unemployment check?

Designing tooling? WTF? Are you reading anything I post?

Anyway lets see. I helped put people who husked corn out of a job at a certain Seed Corn plant. Put in automatic husking machines. I designed the wiring and controls. I even did the programming of the PLC(except for startup) and helped with the HMI portion. You know how many people it would take to husk a corn harvest? We put in 4 new huskers last year and will do the other side of the system next year.
I designed an automatic pick/pack warehouse system. You know - where boxes are automatically picked off of 3 levels of warehouse racks and filters and such automatically to fill the order. Is stacking boxes on a pallet "skilled" labor?
I could provide more instances if you wish.

No it's only 10:30PM here. Maybe you need some sleep

Now run along - it's obvious you haven't a clue on this. Don't embarrass yourself further.

CkG

You know that's all well and good except for one big glaring problem. Instead of keeping or "sowing" the extra money saved by your work they take the money and set up shop overseas in addition to Tax incentives they were paid to pay you to put all those people out of work. Forgot about those pesky little facts huh?

 

[Ferocious]

Damn I didn't think there was still unkilled labor work in factories anymore.

I thought China had all those jobs by now.

I work in a major factory environment and most unskilled jobs have long disappeared. A typical factory job where I work requires months of training and some even require college courses. There are a few jobs that require about a full year of actual training.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: leeboy

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: leeboy
God I hope so. No, I doubt he is that foolish that he thinks he can put everyone he doesn't deem productive in this society out of work, but it surly won't be for lack of his grandiosity or trying. Sheesh. Nope, there will always be the need for humans in this equation on both sides of the blueprint. But why some one who sits in front of a CAD station would brag that what he is doing is putting people out of work is beyond me. If they go, so will he, too someday. If there is no longer a need for new tooling, re-tooling, retro fitting, etc, there surely won't be a need for tube jockies any more either.

Yep - more verbal diarrhea.
I don't "deem" anything - it's the companies who contract us to automate lines and processes that deem things could be done more efficiently via automation. Maybe you shouldn't talk about things you know NOTHING about.
I'm not "bragging" asshat - I'm saying that it happens and that is exactly what my job does. Oh, and BTW - I don't just sit behind a CAD station all day and my kind of job is not going away. I design, draw, and build Electrical control systems and soon I will do more of the actual programming of these systems. There is always a need to improve lines and modify them. So yes - my "tube jockey" job is quite stable - not that I'm really a CAD guy anymore anyway. I've moved into control design and engineering and we've eliminated the plain CAD position

Keep trying with your BS though. You are looking more and more like an uninformed asshat.

CkG

Pft, you will only go so far without the math CAD, so they pulled you off the floor cuz you showed some potential? Sounds like the great american dream bud, you have arrived and are living it! Clap clap. I mean that. I started out much the same way but never bragged about putting people out of work. You are the asshat CAD, you brag that you are so important that your mere getting in the car and driving in to work puts unskilled labor out on the street. W/e, keep blowing wind, you make a good replublican, perhaps after you level out in your pseudo engineering career (don't kid yourself, you are a glorified tube jockey CAD), you can run for office. I, however, still won't vote for you. Keep running those prints CAD, I think the ammonia has gone to your head. Take some PLC/ladder logic so you can program the robots that are going to put us all out of work. I am sure Fanuc will always be hiring.

Actually you'd be wrong with that Nobody "pulled me off the floor" moron. I moved away from a go nowhere town and found something better because the guys I worked with didn't want to see me get "stuck" like they did(and I'm still greatful for their push). I work for an Automation firm - not a factory Like I said - I wasn't "bragging" - THAT part is in your elitist skull. If you think me stating FACT is "bragging" then so be it. You obviously have no clue about the automation business. IT IS OUR JOB TO DO THIS.
Yep - I was a glorified CAD monkey - until I learned how to actually design and understand the systems. I don't care if you wouldn't vote for me I'm not running for office

But anyway we don't do much with GE-Fanuc stuff - we mainly use A-B, a little bit of Siemens, and a little Omron when the customer wants.

"Take some PLC/ladder logic so you can program the robots that are going to put us all out of work." - eh? and you are yapping about ammonia getting to me?

Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

CkG

 

[leeboy]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: leeboy
So what unskilled labor are you putting out of work then CAD? You made the statement, not me? Who do you honestly think you are going to put out of work by designing tooling? Get off your high horse, and shouldn't you be sleeping about now, you know, holding those tight tolerences and all must make CAD sleepy. Pft. You make a bold statement like your important work is putting people out on the street (sounded more like bragging to me which is real cool of you if that really were the case but w/e, that is what we all come to expect of you) however, just who is that if you weren't talking about the machine builders, electricians, pipe fitters, etc? Were you talking about the welders and the painters? Yes, you can put them out of work but are they really unskilled, too? Hmm, I know a few fabricators that would beg to differ with you on that issue. The floor sweepers perhaps? Come on, you said you go to work every day to put unskilled laborers out of work, fill us in on who has you to thank for cashing in that last unemployment check?

Designing tooling? WTF? Are you reading anything I post?

Anyway lets see. I helped put people who husked corn out of a job at a certain Seed Corn plant. Put in automatic husking machines. I designed the wiring and controls. I even did the programming of the PLC(except for startup) and helped with the HMI portion. You know how many people it would take to husk a corn harvest? We put in 4 new huskers last year and will do the other side of the system next year.
I designed an automatic pick/pack warehouse system. You know - where boxes are automatically picked off of 3 levels of warehouse racks and filters and such automatically to fill the order. Is stacking boxes on a pallet "skilled" labor?
I could provide more instances if you wish.

No it's only 10:30PM here. Maybe you need some sleep

Now run along - it's obvious you haven't a clue on this. Don't embarrass yourself further.

CkG

Ahh, I see. But that will level out CAD, you can only put some many, as you call them, unskilled people out of work before they come after your job. And Hi-Lo drivers that deal with moving large, heavy machines or equipment I would consider in some form a skilled profession. Not stacking pallets. So congrats, you win, you put some shuckers and some drivers out on the street! If those are the unskilled workers you are talking about putting out of work then more power to you. If that is some badge of honor for you, wear it proudly! All I know is that in your profession, if you are not constantly learning, you are phasing youself out. It won't be long before all the corn is done shucked, all the pallets have been stacked, before they have you programming and training your AI replacement.

I thought perhaps you were a mechanical engineer who designed lines that weld and/or paint the cars. My bad. That is why I didn't think you would ever put those people out of work no matter how efficent and automated the lines become, they will just hirer few people to maintain them.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
You know that's all well and good except for one big glaring problem. Instead of keeping or "sowing" the extra money saved by your work they take the money and set up shop overseas in addition to Tax incentives they were paid to pay you to put all those people out of work. Forgot about those pesky little facts huh?

Nope - I think you are forgetting that without automation - many more jobs would be lost. Remember Engineer's thread over in the other forum? Machine that replaced 12? people but saved the rest of the plant from moving out of the country? Yeay - I guess you forget those little facts

CkG

 

[leeboy]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: leeboy

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: leeboy
God I hope so. No, I doubt he is that foolish that he thinks he can put everyone he doesn't deem productive in this society out of work, but it surly won't be for lack of his grandiosity or trying. Sheesh. Nope, there will always be the need for humans in this equation on both sides of the blueprint. But why some one who sits in front of a CAD station would brag that what he is doing is putting people out of work is beyond me. If they go, so will he, too someday. If there is no longer a need for new tooling, re-tooling, retro fitting, etc, there surely won't be a need for tube jockies any more either.

Yep - more verbal diarrhea.
I don't "deem" anything - it's the companies who contract us to automate lines and processes that deem things could be done more efficiently via automation. Maybe you shouldn't talk about things you know NOTHING about.
I'm not "bragging" asshat - I'm saying that it happens and that is exactly what my job does. Oh, and BTW - I don't just sit behind a CAD station all day and my kind of job is not going away. I design, draw, and build Electrical control systems and soon I will do more of the actual programming of these systems. There is always a need to improve lines and modify them. So yes - my "tube jockey" job is quite stable - not that I'm really a CAD guy anymore anyway. I've moved into control design and engineering and we've eliminated the plain CAD position

Keep trying with your BS though. You are looking more and more like an uninformed asshat.

CkG

Pft, you will only go so far without the math CAD, so they pulled you off the floor cuz you showed some potential? Sounds like the great american dream bud, you have arrived and are living it! Clap clap. I mean that. I started out much the same way but never bragged about putting people out of work. You are the asshat CAD, you brag that you are so important that your mere getting in the car and driving in to work puts unskilled labor out on the street. W/e, keep blowing wind, you make a good replublican, perhaps after you level out in your pseudo engineering career (don't kid yourself, you are a glorified tube jockey CAD), you can run for office. I, however, still won't vote for you. Keep running those prints CAD, I think the ammonia has gone to your head. Take some PLC/ladder logic so you can program the robots that are going to put us all out of work. I am sure Fanuc will always be hiring.

Actually you'd be wrong with that Nobody "pulled me off the floor" moron. I moved away from a go nowhere town and found something better because the guys I worked with didn't want to see me get "stuck" like they did(and I'm still greatful for their push). I work for an Automation firm - not a factory Like I said - I wasn't "bragging" - THAT part is in your elitist skull. If you think me stating FACT is "bragging" then so be it. You obviously have no clue about the automation business. IT IS OUR JOB TO DO THIS.
Yep - I was a glorified CAD monkey - until I learned how to actually design and understand the systems. I don't care if you wouldn't vote for me I'm not running for office

But anyway we don't do much with GE-Fanuc stuff - we mainly use A-B, a little bit of Siemens, and a little Omron when the customer wants.

"Take some PLC/ladder logic so you can program the robots that are going to put us all out of work." - eh? and you are yapping about ammonia getting to me?

Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

CkG

Oh gee you showed me. I would like to see your knowledge of engineering having been removed from it for over 15 years now. Sorry, I am not up on that stuff anymore. PLC programming has nothing to do with Robots and their AI? I thought that is how we used to program them, I could be wrong. Sorry, I am not up on that anymore. I hung up my SME membership a long time ago to go to med school since I knew that wasn't the life for me. Like engineering wasn't stressful enough. Happy you enjoy it, and yes, the ammonia DID get to my head. No good ever comes from prolonged exposure to that $hit.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: leeboy
Ahh, I see. But that will level out CAD, you can only put some many, as you call them, unskilled people out of work before they come after your job. And Hi-Lo drivers that deal with moving large, heavy machines or equipment I would consider in some form a skilled profession. Not stacking pallets. So congrats, you win, you put some shuckers and some drivers out on the street! If those are the unskilled workers you are talking about putting out of work then more power to you. If that is some badge of honor for you, wear it proudly! All I know is that in your profession, if you are not constantly learning, you are phasing youself out. It won't be long before all the corn is done shucked, all the pallets have been stacked, before they have you programming and training your AI replacement.

I thought perhaps you were a mechanical engineer who designed lines that weld and/or paint the cars. My bad. That is why I didn't think you would ever put those people out of work no matter how efficent and automated the lines become, they will just hirer few people to maintain them.

Exactly - when you quit learning and growing you put yourself at risk of being passed by. If you noticed in one of my posts I said that the guy's who basically kicked me out of the metal fab shop I worked in(half skilled half not) told me never to quit learning and changing otherwise you get stuck. I welcome the challenge of the unskilled vying for my job Yes - you may think of it as a badge of honor but I see it as suceeding at my job. Sorry you seem to think automation as evil. I'd rather automate than have everything shipped overseas - you?

Unfortunately for your argument efficient AI isn't going to be around in my lifetime. But if it does happen then we are all screwed - not just me

CkG

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: leeboy
Oh gee you showed me. I would like to see your knowledge of engineering having been removed from it for over 15 years now. Sorry, I am not up on that stuff anymore. PLC programming has nothing to do with Robots and their AI? I thought that is how we used to program them, I could be wrong. Sorry, I am not up on that anymore. I hung up my SME membership a long time ago to go to med school since I knew that wasn't the life for me. Like engineering wasn't stressful enough. Happy you enjoy it, and yes, the ammonia DID get to my head. No good ever comes from prolonged exposure to that $hit.

Yes - PLCs would be part of Robotics. Sensors, limits, etc - it all gets programmed and things can only do what they are programmed to do(well unless there are problems)
Automation engineering isn't really that tough. It's basically "if then" statments in different logic forms. Yes I believe most still use ladder logic(most we work with) but some have gone to flow charting and some other different forms of logic but it's all the same - just different ways to see/show it. Oh but if anything is going to "get to my head" it'd be hexane as we do alot of work with soybean processors.

CkG

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
I don't just sit behind a CAD station all day and my kind of job is not going away. I design, draw, and build Electrical control systems and soon I will do more of the actual programming of these systems. There is always a need to improve lines and modify them. So yes - my "tube jockey" job is quite stable - not that I'm really a CAD guy anymore anyway. I've moved into control design and engineering and we've eliminated the plain CAD position

What?! They haven't replaced your sorry ass with a robot yet? What's taking so long?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
I don't just sit behind a CAD station all day and my kind of job is not going away. I design, draw, and build Electrical control systems and soon I will do more of the actual programming of these systems. There is always a need to improve lines and modify them. So yes - my "tube jockey" job is quite stable - not that I'm really a CAD guy anymore anyway. I've moved into control design and engineering and we've eliminated the plain CAD position

What?! They haven't replaced your sorry ass with a robot yet? What's taking so long?

I work cheap

CkG