Where are the jobs

[charrison]

linkage

Good articles on jobs. Talks about oursourcing, but i appears the real "problem" is gains in productivity.
Productivity gains have continued to be strong.

And it's a real job killer this time: A one-percentage-point increase in annual productivity growth costs about 1.3 million jobs.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

I'm guilty. I used to be a part of a four person IT team. Since then the three others have left and I'm now easily handling the workload myself and have also taken over tasks they used to outsource.

*shrug*

I remember thinking when I started working that if everybody was trying their hardest that there wouldn't be a need for so many people working. Looks like I was right. But I think automation plays as much if not more of a role in the job slump than employee productivity.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
I'm guilty. I used to be a part of a four person IT team. Since then the three others have left and I'm now easily handling the workload myself and have also taken over tasks they used to outsource.

*shrug*

I remember thinking when I started working that if everybody was trying their hardest that there wouldn't be a need for so many people working. Looks like I was right. But I think automation plays as much if not more of a role in the job slump than employee productivity.

You are right, every software project i have worked on has had the ultimate goal of reducing manpower requirements and increasing data quality/customer service. That is every end user was able to do more in less time with the software I worked on.

 

[Tripleshot]

India.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Tripleshot
India.

Only about 300,000 jobs have been moved outside the country.... It is only a small part in the jobs equation.

 

[NonSequiter]

Talks about oursourcing, but it appears the real "problem" is gains in productivity.

On a macro level, sure. On a micro level, the problem is and will continue to be that the individuals having trouble finding/keeping jobs need to sharpen up their value proposition as an employee, in terms of what they bring to the table for a potential employer. Differentiation isn't a term only applicable to product merchandising, it applies to people as well. If you have unique or uncommon skill sets, or provide another tangible benefit to your employer that your peers don't, you'll tend to stay employed longer and receive better compensation in the present as well as better opportunities in the future.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
I'm guilty. ...
But I think automation plays as much if not more of a role in the job slump than employee productivity.

Guilty here too. I go to work every day to put unskilled laborers out of work

CkG

 

[chowderhead]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
I'm guilty. ...
But I think automation plays as much if not more of a role in the job slump than employee productivity.

Guilty here too. I go to work every day to put unskilled laborers out of work

CkG

it's the highly paid, skilled jobs that are most at risked to be outsourced

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: chowderhead

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
I'm guilty. ...
But I think automation plays as much if not more of a role in the job slump than employee productivity.

Guilty here too. I go to work every day to put unskilled laborers out of work

CkG

it's the highly paid, skilled jobs that are most at risked to be outsourced

I work for an Industrial Automation and Engineering company. We make manual labor jobs go away by automating processes and manufacturing lines. I go to work to help my company help other companies make unskilled labor go away.

CkG

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

I work for an Industrial Automation and Engineering company. We make manual labor jobs go away by automating processes and manufacturing lines. I go to work to help my company help other companies make unskilled labor go away.

CkG

It's **OFFICIAL** and **CONFIRMED**!!

CkG is teh debbil! :evil:

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

I work for an Industrial Automation and Engineering company. We make manual labor jobs go away by automating processes and manufacturing lines. I go to work to help my company help other companies make unskilled labor go away.

CkG

It's **OFFICIAL** and **CONFIRMED**!!

CkG is teh debbil! :evil:

Yep. I'm so evil that when we replace unskilled people in places - skilled ones suddenly pop up to run and maintain things. Sure the not in the same quantity but they are skilled jobs none the less.

CkG

 

[leeboy]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: chowderhead

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
I'm guilty. ...
But I think automation plays as much if not more of a role in the job slump than employee productivity.

Guilty here too. I go to work every day to put unskilled laborers out of work

CkG

it's the highly paid, skilled jobs that are most at risked to be outsourced

I work for an Industrial Automation and Engineering company. We make manual labor jobs go away by automating processes and manufacturing lines. I go to work to help my company help other companies make unskilled labor go away.

CkG

Wow, what an attitude. I wonder if the guys in the shop know what you think about them. I would love for you to go onto the floor with that attitude CAD. It would be so fun to watch them mop up the floor with your educated better than thou a$$.

Funny how you forget that you need someone to assemble those lines after you have designed them and made your buck. You need those unskilled fools to truck the parts to those plants that build those lines. Too bad you think so little of the people that really keep you employed. Such short sightedness, but we have come to expect that from you CAD.

Yawn, same old you. Hell, I could have just hit rewind and play on any of your old, tired posts.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: leeboy

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: chowderhead

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
I'm guilty. ...
But I think automation plays as much if not more of a role in the job slump than employee productivity.

Guilty here too. I go to work every day to put unskilled laborers out of work

CkG

it's the highly paid, skilled jobs that are most at risked to be outsourced

I work for an Industrial Automation and Engineering company. We make manual labor jobs go away by automating processes and manufacturing lines. I go to work to help my company help other companies make unskilled labor go away.

CkG

Wow, what an attitude. I wonder if the guys in the shop know what you think about them. I would love for you to go onto the floor with that attitude CAD. It would be so fun to watch them mop up the floor with your educated better than thou a$$.

Funny how you forget that you need someone to assemble those lines after you have designed them and made your buck. You need those unskilled fools to truck the parts to those plants that build those lines. Too bad you think so little of the people that really keep you employed. Such short sightedness, but we have come to expect that from you CAD.

Yawn, same old you. Hell, I could have just hit rewind and play on any of your old, tired posts.

Automation is happening. One day i am sure the lines that produce the robots will be automated as well. It will still require many types of people to get the job done and CAD does realize that.

 

[leeboy]

God I hope so. No, I doubt he is that foolish that he thinks he can put everyone he doesn't deem productive in this society out of work, but it surly won't be for lack of his grandiosity or trying. Sheesh. Nope, there will always be the need for humans in this equation on both sides of the blueprint. But why some one who sits in front of a CAD station would brag that what he is doing is putting people out of work is beyond me. If they go, so will he, too someday. If there is no longer a need for new tooling, re-tooling, retro fitting, etc, there surely won't be a need for tube jockies any more either.

 

[amok]

Originally posted by: leeboy
God I hope so. No, I doubt he is that foolish that he thinks he can put everyone he doesn't deem productive in this society out of work, but it surly won't be for lack of his grandiosity or trying. Sheesh. Nope, there will always be the need for humans in this equation on both sides of the blueprint. But why some one who sits in front of a CAD station would brag that what he is doing is putting people out of work is beyond me. If they go, so will he, too someday. If there is no longer a need for new tooling, re-tooling, retro fitting, etc, there surely won't be a need for tube jockies any more either.

Not exactly true. Even fully automated systems can be made more efficient, which will always prove tempting to those invested in the various industries. IMO, research scientists and tube jockies will always have something to do.

 

[leeboy]

Originally posted by: amok

Originally posted by: leeboy
God I hope so. No, I doubt he is that foolish that he thinks he can put everyone he doesn't deem productive in this society out of work, but it surly won't be for lack of his grandiosity or trying. Sheesh. Nope, there will always be the need for humans in this equation on both sides of the blueprint. But why some one who sits in front of a CAD station would brag that what he is doing is putting people out of work is beyond me. If they go, so will he, too someday. If there is no longer a need for new tooling, re-tooling, retro fitting, etc, there surely won't be a need for tube jockies any more either.

Not exactly true. Even fully automated systems can be made more efficient, which will always prove tempting to those invested in the various industries. IMO, research scientists and tube jockies will always have something to do.

Of for sure, there WILL always be a need. At least for the forseeable future anyhow. I was pointing out that if there is a need for the CADs, there will still be a need for the workers bee's in his hive. LOL.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: leeboy
God I hope so. No, I doubt he is that foolish that he thinks he can put everyone he doesn't deem productive in this society out of work, but it surly won't be for lack of his grandiosity or trying. Sheesh. Nope, there will always be the need for humans in this equation on both sides of the blueprint. But why some one who sits in front of a CAD station would brag that what he is doing is putting people out of work is beyond me. If they go, so will he, too someday. If there is no longer a need for new tooling, re-tooling, retro fitting, etc, there surely won't be a need for tube jockies any more either.

There will always be a need for humans, but the need for people in manufacturing is shrinking. Much more can be done with less, and a consistant higher quality can be acheived in the process. T

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: leeboy

Originally posted by: amok

Originally posted by: leeboy
God I hope so. No, I doubt he is that foolish that he thinks he can put everyone he doesn't deem productive in this society out of work, but it surly won't be for lack of his grandiosity or trying. Sheesh. Nope, there will always be the need for humans in this equation on both sides of the blueprint. But why some one who sits in front of a CAD station would brag that what he is doing is putting people out of work is beyond me. If they go, so will he, too someday. If there is no longer a need for new tooling, re-tooling, retro fitting, etc, there surely won't be a need for tube jockies any more either.

Not exactly true. Even fully automated systems can be made more efficient, which will always prove tempting to those invested in the various industries. IMO, research scientists and tube jockies will always have something to do.

Of for sure, there WILL always be a need. At least for the forseeable future anyhow. I was pointing out that if there is a need for the CADs, there will still be a need for the workers bee's in his hive. LOL.

But the remaining folks left in the hive will need to be of higher skill than those replace with machines.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: leeboy

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: chowderhead

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
I'm guilty. ...
But I think automation plays as much if not more of a role in the job slump than employee productivity.

Guilty here too. I go to work every day to put unskilled laborers out of work

CkG

it's the highly paid, skilled jobs that are most at risked to be outsourced

I work for an Industrial Automation and Engineering company. We make manual labor jobs go away by automating processes and manufacturing lines. I go to work to help my company help other companies make unskilled labor go away.

CkG

Wow, what an attitude. I wonder if the guys in the shop know what you think about them. I would love for you to go onto the floor with that attitude CAD. It would be so fun to watch them mop up the floor with your educated better than thou a$$.

Funny how you forget that you need someone to assemble those lines after you have designed them and made your buck. You need those unskilled fools to truck the parts to those plants that build those lines. Too bad you think so little of the people that really keep you employed. Such short sightedness, but we have come to expect that from you CAD.

Yawn, same old you. Hell, I could have just hit rewind and play on any of your old, tired posts.

Wow - talk about talking out of your ass!

Truck drivers aren't "unskilled". When was the last time you drove a semi?
I have been "on the floor" - fool. I've done these jobs. You know what those people told me? They told me to get the F@#K out of the factory before I got "stuck" like they did. They knew they had few "skills" but are "stuck" because they got comfortable with their paycheck and stopped learning.
Funny that you think that plant maintenence people are "unskilled" - because I KNOW they aren't. Sure some are dumb as a brick but the ones I deal with have to know what goes on.
I'm talking about unskilled labor - what part of that don't you understand.

Care to try your holier than thou BS again?

CkG

 

[amok]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: leeboy

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: chowderhead

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
I'm guilty. ...
But I think automation plays as much if not more of a role in the job slump than employee productivity.

Guilty here too. I go to work every day to put unskilled laborers out of work

CkG

it's the highly paid, skilled jobs that are most at risked to be outsourced

I work for an Industrial Automation and Engineering company. We make manual labor jobs go away by automating processes and manufacturing lines. I go to work to help my company help other companies make unskilled labor go away.

CkG

Wow, what an attitude. I wonder if the guys in the shop know what you think about them. I would love for you to go onto the floor with that attitude CAD. It would be so fun to watch them mop up the floor with your educated better than thou a$$.

Funny how you forget that you need someone to assemble those lines after you have designed them and made your buck. You need those unskilled fools to truck the parts to those plants that build those lines. Too bad you think so little of the people that really keep you employed. Such short sightedness, but we have come to expect that from you CAD.

Yawn, same old you. Hell, I could have just hit rewind and play on any of your old, tired posts.

Automation is happening. One day i am sure the lines that produce the robots will be automated as well. It will still require many types of people to get the job done and CAD does realize that.

Lol, I was actually just re-reading the four books from Asimov's Robots and Murder series (Caves of Steel - Robots and Empire) while I was vacationing, and I can't help but think of fully automated societies and comparing them to Aurora in the series ;-).

 

[leeboy]

So what unskilled labor are you putting out of work then CAD? You made the statement, not me? Who do you honestly think you are going to put out of work by designing tooling? Get off your high horse, and shouldn't you be sleeping about now, you know, holding those tight tolerences and all must make CAD sleepy. Pft. You make a bold statement like your important work is putting people out on the street (sounded more like bragging to me which is real cool of you if that really were the case but w/e, that is what we all come to expect of you) however, just who is that if you weren't talking about the machine builders, electricians, pipe fitters, etc? Were you talking about the welders and the painters? Yes, you can put them out of work but are they really unskilled, too? Hmm, I know a few fabricators that would beg to differ with you on that issue. The floor sweepers perhaps? Come on, you said you go to work every day to put unskilled laborers out of work, fill us in on who has you to thank for cashing in that last unemployment check?

 

[BugsBunny1078]

im pretty sure computer software that can design machines based on what they need to do is already available or will be in the very near future. Put in some data you want the machine to do x y and z i can be no bigger than w it cannot cost more than v and the computer works out the rest of the details. Pretty much everything will be automated.
So what will people do for work? They won't or they will do government stuff . Communism is the end result of this. Once everyone is out of work the government has to take care of everyone. Companies lose their right to make profit, usurped by the government so it can take care of the people better. This is where we are headed right now. How ironic isn't it? That capitlism succeeds so well it forces communism on us all.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: leeboy
God I hope so. No, I doubt he is that foolish that he thinks he can put everyone he doesn't deem productive in this society out of work, but it surly won't be for lack of his grandiosity or trying. Sheesh. Nope, there will always be the need for humans in this equation on both sides of the blueprint. But why some one who sits in front of a CAD station would brag that what he is doing is putting people out of work is beyond me. If they go, so will he, too someday. If there is no longer a need for new tooling, re-tooling, retro fitting, etc, there surely won't be a need for tube jockies any more either.

Yep - more verbal diarrhea.
I don't "deem" anything - it's the companies who contract us to automate lines and processes that deem things could be done more efficiently via automation. Maybe you shouldn't talk about things you know NOTHING about.
I'm not "bragging" asshat - I'm saying that it happens and that is exactly what my job does. Oh, and BTW - I don't just sit behind a CAD station all day and my kind of job is not going away. I design, draw, and build Electrical control systems and soon I will do more of the actual programming of these systems. There is always a need to improve lines and modify them. So yes - my "tube jockey" job is quite stable - not that I'm really a CAD guy anymore anyway. I've moved into control design and engineering and we've eliminated the plain CAD position

Keep trying with your BS though. You are looking more and more like an uninformed asshat.

CkG

 

[leeboy]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: leeboy
God I hope so. No, I doubt he is that foolish that he thinks he can put everyone he doesn't deem productive in this society out of work, but it surly won't be for lack of his grandiosity or trying. Sheesh. Nope, there will always be the need for humans in this equation on both sides of the blueprint. But why some one who sits in front of a CAD station would brag that what he is doing is putting people out of work is beyond me. If they go, so will he, too someday. If there is no longer a need for new tooling, re-tooling, retro fitting, etc, there surely won't be a need for tube jockies any more either.

Yep - more verbal diarrhea.
I don't "deem" anything - it's the companies who contract us to automate lines and processes that deem things could be done more efficiently via automation. Maybe you shouldn't talk about things you know NOTHING about.
I'm not "bragging" asshat - I'm saying that it happens and that is exactly what my job does. Oh, and BTW - I don't just sit behind a CAD station all day and my kind of job is not going away. I design, draw, and build Electrical control systems and soon I will do more of the actual programming of these systems. There is always a need to improve lines and modify them. So yes - my "tube jockey" job is quite stable - not that I'm really a CAD guy anymore anyway. I've moved into control design and engineering and we've eliminated the plain CAD position

Keep trying with your BS though. You are looking more and more like an uninformed asshat.

CkG

Pft, you will only go so far without the math CAD, so they pulled you off the floor cuz you showed some potential? Sounds like the great american dream bud, you have arrived and are living it! Clap clap. I mean that. I started out much the same way but never bragged about putting people out of work. You are the asshat CAD, you brag that you are so important that your mere getting in the car and driving in to work puts unskilled labor out on the street. W/e, keep blowing wind, you make a good replublican, perhaps after you level out in your pseudo engineering career (don't kid yourself, you are a glorified tube jockey CAD), you can run for office. I, however, still won't vote for you. Keep running those prints CAD, I think the ammonia has gone to your head. Take some PLC/ladder logic so you can program the robots that are going to put us all out of work. I am sure Fanuc will always be hiring.

 

[amok]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
im pretty sure computer software that can design machines based on what they need to do is already available or will be in the very near future. Put in some data you want the machine to do x y and z i can be no bigger than w it cannot cost more than v and the computer works out the rest of the details. Pretty much everything will be automated.
So what will people do for work? They won't or they will do government stuff . Communism is the end result of this. Once everyone is out of work the government has to take care of everyone. Companies lose their right to make profit, usurped by the government so it can take care of the people better. This is where we are headed right now. How ironic isn't it? That capitlism succeeds so well it forces communism on us all.

I think a form of socialism is more likely in that case, but that's beside the point. As for the rest, you can spend the rest of your days worrying about it if you want, but humans are going to be writing code and designing machines for some time to come. Hollywood has made us distrustful of clever machines or overly smart code .