Where are the IDE SSDs?

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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For whatever reason, it seems that not too many SSDs are being built with a notebook IDE form-factors. There are probably a good number of notebooks still being used that have IDE drives in them, that could benefit from an SSD upgrade.

Edit: here is Newegg's selection.

Do any of those support TRIM? What controller do they use, is it a good one or a bad one? I hear so much about controllers for SSDs on here it makes my head spin. As I understand it, Intel = Best, Indilinx Barefoot = Next best, Samsung = Decent, all others = crap.

For example, this is the first product in that list, and for specs, it lists:
Sequential Access - Read 35MB/sec (max)
Sequential Access - Write 15MB/sec (max)

Isn't that horrid performance? It seems not really much better or different than a dual-channel USB flash drive. Where are the 100MB/sec performance numbers? I'm sure that the notebook IDE interfaces go that fast, don't they?
 

jdjbuffalo

Senior member
Oct 26, 2000
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I doubt you would get a good boost in performance to notebooks that still use IDE drives. They would have to be at least 3 years old. So, I would generally say it's not worth it. The hard drive will be worth more than the computer...

There are ones that get up to 80MB/sec from NewEgg. These are probably as good as you're going to get. 100MB/sec is more theoretical and usually isn't possible unless you have two drives feeding the IDE cable. The other possible option, although it might not work in most notebooks, is to get a SATA to IDE converter.

TRIM is supported only in the new Intel G2 drives at the moment. The other non-Intel ones have said that they are working on firmware that supports it but there are no guarantees.
 

Ben90

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
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Originally posted by: jdjbuffalo
TRIM is supported only in the new Intel G2 drives at the moment. The other non-Intel ones have said that they are working on firmware that supports it but there are no guarantees.

I believe the Vertex's now have some like internal defragging kinda ordeal that pretty much makes trim obsolete.

But yea he is pretty much right, it would be overkill for the rest of the computer
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
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I doubt you would get a good boost in performance to notebooks that still use IDE drives. They would have to be at least 3 years old. So, I would generally say it's not worth it. The hard drive will be worth more than the computer...

The hard disk is almost always the slowest part of a notebook so those would be the absolute best places for an SSD.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
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One of the reasons you are not seeing many IDE SSD is because the memory used and the control chips operate using serial protocols. IDE is parallel. So it requires more hardware to convert from the memory chips to the IDE interface, increasing cost, making it even less competitive in price to IDE hard drives.



 

Gillbot

Lifer
Jan 11, 2001
28,830
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Most people wouldn't pay the money for an SSD, it would be cheaper to get a new notebook most likely.
 

Eeqmcsq

Senior member
Jan 6, 2009
407
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There are probably a good number of notebooks still being used that have IDE drives in them, that could benefit from an SSD upgrade.

I agree. I've kept an eye on IDE SSDs, and the selection hasn't changed much over the past few months. I think all of these use the crappy JMicron controller we all love to hate, so unless you're using them in some server type machine, or unless you're a light user, they're not really worth getting.

I'm waiting to see if the new JMicron controller will bring about more IDE SSDs. It'd be nice to breathe new life into my old laptop.

So it requires more hardware to convert from the memory chips to the IDE interface, increasing cost, making it even less competitive in price to IDE hard drives.

Yep, according to a Transcend datasheet, the flash chips are connected to an SATA controller, which is connected to an IDE bridge.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
For whatever reason, it seems that not too many SSDs are being built with a notebook IDE form-factors. There are probably a good number of notebooks still being used that have IDE drives in them, that could benefit from an SSD upgrade.

Edit: here is Newegg's selection.

Do any of those support TRIM? What controller do they use, is it a good one or a bad one? I hear so much about controllers for SSDs on here it makes my head spin. As I understand it, Intel = Best, Indilinx Barefoot = Next best, Samsung = Decent, all others = crap.

For example, this is the first product in that list, and for specs, it lists:
Sequential Access - Read 35MB/sec (max)
Sequential Access - Write 15MB/sec (max)

Isn't that horrid performance? It seems not really much better or different than a dual-channel USB flash drive. Where are the 100MB/sec performance numbers? I'm sure that the notebook IDE interfaces go that fast, don't they?

All the IDE notebooks are old... old enough to be worth LESS than the SSD...
Few people will buy a 230$ SSD for their 150$ used notebook... (admittedly, I want to buy a 230$ SSD for my 150$ notebook...)
Few being not enough to justify the cost of development... at least that is what the people in charge think.
 

Denithor

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2004
6,298
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Um, guys? PATA and SATA are both IDE.

I'm guessing, based on the list you provided in the OP, that you mean PATA IDE SSD drives, right?

If so the answer to "Why does performance on these models suck?" is that as mentioned above they are all JMicron drives (or even older suckier controllers for that matter). I wouldn't expect anyone to bring out the latest drives featuring a PATA interface for the reason taltamir stated - a $230 SSD does not make sense in a 4-5 year old $150 laptop. All laptops made in the last 3 or so years use the SATA interface so for any laptop that is really "worth" upgrading with an SSD you can get the latest & greatest.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Originally posted by: Denithor

If so the answer to "Why does performance on these models suck?" is that as mentioned above they are all JMicron drives (or even older suckier controllers for that matter).

They can never be equal in performance.
The memory chips themselves are serial in nature. The only way to get that to a parallel interface is to buffer the serial data, convert to parallel , buffer the parallel , and send it to the host. All that takes time.

SATA has the advantage of memory chip > Controller > host , the data never needs converting.




 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
Originally posted by: Denithor
Um, guys? PATA and SATA are both IDE.

That is what I always say, but people call PATA IDE for some reason, even on newegg it says IDE for PATA. It is like the robot vs android vs cyborg thing, people keep on getting it wrong and sometimes you have to too to be understood.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
Originally posted by: Modelworks
Originally posted by: Denithor

If so the answer to "Why does performance on these models suck?" is that as mentioned above they are all JMicron drives (or even older suckier controllers for that matter).

They can never be equal in performance.
The memory chips themselves are serial in nature. The only way to get that to a parallel interface is to buffer the serial data, convert to parallel , buffer the parallel , and send it to the host. All that takes time.

SATA has the advantage of memory chip > Controller > host , the data never needs converting.

i... completely disagree with what you said. The interface is just an interface and requires equal conversion. SATA is just a faster interface, that is all.
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
Originally posted by: Gillbot
Most people wouldn't pay the money for an SSD, it would be cheaper to get a new notebook most likely.

Especially for (relatively new) notebooks SSDs make MOST sense. Not only in terms of power savings, but also in terms of speed gain. Notebook HDs spin low and are generally slow.

(Looking at wife's notebook which is approx 1.5 years old. A SSD would probably tremedously speed up her notebook).

As for the price argument, which i always read:

I 100% disagree. A *good* 64GB SSD right now is ?135 - now this is more than a HD, yes, but its not THAT much more than the avg. ?100 you spend on the latest whatever harddrive.

Furthermore....taking into acc that a DECENT notebook still is 800++ (not talking about $499 garbage noteboosk) the ?135 for a considerable speed-boost are not THAT extreme.

 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Originally posted by: taltamir
Originally posted by: Modelworks
Originally posted by: Denithor

If so the answer to "Why does performance on these models suck?" is that as mentioned above they are all JMicron drives (or even older suckier controllers for that matter).

They can never be equal in performance.
The memory chips themselves are serial in nature. The only way to get that to a parallel interface is to buffer the serial data, convert to parallel , buffer the parallel , and send it to the host. All that takes time.

SATA has the advantage of memory chip > Controller > host , the data never needs converting.

i... completely disagree with what you said. The interface is just an interface and requires equal conversion. SATA is just a faster interface, that is all.

Depends on the memory chip used. Much easier to do serial to serial conversion than it is to do parallel to serial to parallel.
 

PandaBear

Golden Member
Aug 23, 2000
1,375
1
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Technically, most of the development between SATA and PATA just aren't there. It is really the manufacturing volume that dictate which one is produced. There are volumes for CF and SATA, but not PATA for flash products, so no new products for PATA 2.5" laptop.

You can always buy a CF and an adapter, but they probably aren't optimized for speed or volume.