When will CPU architecture changes be introduced that address Spectre

[JustMe21]

I was wondering if there have been announcements from CPU makers on when they will introduce architecture changes that address the Spectre flaw? While many will be fine with just patches, I would like to know that there are specific CPU architecture changes that resolve the issue so it reduces or eliminates the chance of some future variant.

 

[dullard]

This question has been asked and answered on this forum nearly every week.

For Intel:
https://newsroom.intel.com/editorials/advancing-security-silicon-level/

While Variant 1 will continue to be addressed via software mitigations, we are making changes to our hardware design to further address the other two. We have redesigned parts of the processor to introduce new levels of protection through partitioning that will protect against both Variants 2 and 3...These changes will begin with our next-generation Intel® Xeon® Scalable processors (code-named Cascade Lake) as well as 8th Generation Intel® Core™ processors expected to ship in the second half of 2018.

For AMD:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/amd-vs-spectre-our-new-zen-2-chips-will-be-protected-says-ceo/

"Longer term, we have included changes in our future processor cores, starting with our Zen 2 design, to further address potential Spectre-like exploits," she said. Zen 2 is the next generation of AMD X86 processors, based on 7nm technology and due to arrive in 2019.

 

[IEC]

You also have the eight (8) new "Spectre-NG" flaws for Intel. There is no news yet either way on whether AMD is impacted by these new flaws.

Per the original Heise c't article, Intel was planning to release microcode updates this month:
https://www.heise.de/ct/artikel/Exc...U-flaws-revealed-several-serious-4040648.html

However, as of yesterday this has been pushed back to July, with more fixes coming in August. These fixes encompass 4 of the 8 new flaws.
https://www.heise.de/security/meldu...e-Veroeffentlichung-aufgeschoben-4043790.html

 

[LTC8K6]

I was wondering if there have been announcements from CPU makers on when they will introduce architecture changes that address the Spectre flaw? While many will be fine with just patches, I would like to know that there are specific CPU architecture changes that resolve the issue so it reduces or eliminates the chance of some future variant.

For home users, I really wouldn't worry about it much. It shouldn't be a problem.

Anyway, you can't worry about future variants until they are discovered.

There's always a possibility of new CPU vulnerabilities being found.

Even totally new ones for which no one has a fix.

 

[Mopetar]

My understanding was that while you could patch (or design around) these specific vulnerabilities, any processor using out-of-order execution could be vulnerable to a spectre-like style of attack.

 

[Topweasel]

My understanding was that while you could patch (or design around) these specific vulnerabilities, any processor using out-of-order execution could be vulnerable to a spectre-like style of attack.

This is the key. AMD and Intel can plug holes all they want and I mean that's like 90% of our OS experience. But this is one of the cat is out of the bag type issues and not one I expect to see "fixed" in that sense. They would have to completely change how work is processed on the CPU to block these types of exploits. The good news is that Spectre is immensely difficult to actually use as an exploit and the only version of it that is truly a hole that absolutely needed to be plugged was Meltdown. Without the meltdown variant the rest take waaaay to much architectural knowledge and you pretty much have to know what is in the vulnerable data to know how to grab it to be of any use. So I would expect till some lightbulb goes off in either sides head and then another 5-7 years after that, before you see anything that doesn't have to be patched every once and a while for new Spectre based exploits. It's why people at the beginning said Meltdown is a huge security flaw, but Spectre would be felt for decades.

 

[moinmoin]

I personally think of Spectre as exploiting two fatal design flaws: Privilege escalation (user level code should never have access to kernel level data), and insufficient isolation between same privilege level processes. The former is Spectre v2 and v3/Meltdown and something that Intel didn't (but AMD mostly did) account for. The latter is something people didn't see as an issue until rather recently, with OSes being continuously hardened.

We will see how AMD will try to "address potential Spectre-like exploits" (so not only Spectre v1 but potentially also the 8 Spectre-NG issues Intel is facing and not publicly revealed yet) in Zen 2. My expectation is that it may build upon AMD's already implemented SME (Secure Memory Encryption) and SEV (Secure Encrypted Virtualization) support, extending it to a per process data encryption.

As for Intel I honestly have no idea what to expect from them. Intel's SGX (Software Guard Extensions) secure enclaves (that should be inaccessible to everything) being perfectly accessible through Spectre attacks tells me Intel is caught empty handed with regard to any forward thinking preparation for potential (and now real) attack vectors.

 

[ninaholic37]

My understanding was that while you could patch (or design around) these specific vulnerabilities, any processor using out-of-order execution could be vulnerable to a spectre-like style of attack.

Now I wish I wouldn't have sold my Atom N2600 Acer Aspire One netbook. Nothing newer worth buying except for maybe a better CPU, but not any more.

 

[LTC8K6]

Now I wish I wouldn't have sold my Atom N2600 Acer Aspire One netbook. Nothing newer worth buying except for maybe a better CPU, but not any more.

These exploits are not really much to worry about for home users. So far, they have also never been found in use. I wouldn't even consider them when buying a home use system.

 

[whm1974]

These exploits are not really much to worry about for home users. So far, they have also never been found in use. I wouldn't even consider them when buying a home use system.

This+. This is not even an issue for the vast majority of users due to the amount effort and skill a hacker will need to be able to take advantage of these exploits.

 

[FIVR]

Intel won't have any hardware fixes until late 2019 at the earliest and that's only for Spectre. Brain Kraznich already announced that they won't be starting HVM production until H2 2019 at the earliest. Even if they have a fix, they won't sell it to you. Also, they have not even publicly addressed spectre-NG


AMD have already announced that Ryzen 2 will include a spectre fix.


If I were you OP, I would avoid anything intel-related until 2020 and only buy Ryzen 2 if you need x86. If you have to buy something today definitely avoid intel as they have 2-8x the amount of security flaws that AMD chips have (and they are more exploitable). The patches to fix these drastically reduce performance across the board, to the point that intel now loses many benchmarks it used to win before the patches.

 

[LTC8K6]

The 10nm i3-8121u is now floating around with testing going on.
Also the m3-8114y.

Has anyone reported on either regarding the exploits?

 

[LTC8K6]

Intel won't have any hardware fixes until late 2019 at the earliest and that's only for Spectre. Brain Kraznich already announced that they won't be starting HVM production until H2 2019 at the earliest. Even if they have a fix, they won't sell it to you. Also, they have not even publicly addressed spectre-NG


AMD have already announced that Ryzen 2 will include a spectre fix.


If I were you OP, I would avoid anything intel-related until 2020 and only buy Ryzen 2 if you need x86. If you have to buy something today definitely avoid intel as they have 2-8x the amount of security flaws that AMD chips have (and they are more exploitable). The patches to fix these drastically reduce performance across the board, to the point that intel now loses many benchmarks it used to win before the patches.

My advice would be to make your own informed decisions and not listen to this sort of biased posting.

 

[FIVR]

My advice would be to make your own informed decisions and not listen to this sort of biased posting.

My advice to OP is also to avoid taking advice from biased posters like this one^


When a poster doesn't even have an argument and instead uses ad-hominems... and then also has a history of promoting one vendor in every single thread you can usually tell that person has an agenda.

 

[Glo.]

The 10nm i3-8121u is now floating around with testing going on.
Also the m3-8114y.

Has anyone reported on either regarding the exploits?

Yes, Intel themselves.

FIRST CPUs to be released with the fixes are Cascade Lake CPUs at the end of this year. Nothing previously will come out will have the fixes.

 

[LTC8K6]

Yes, Intel themselves.

FIRST CPUs to be released with the fixes are Cascade Lake CPUs at the end of this year. Nothing previously will come out will have the fixes.

I meant had anyone tested the chips just to see.

I have repeatedly posted what Intel has said about having fixed chips out in 2018.

I was posting it when people were laughing at it. 😀

 

[dullard]

When a poster ...has a history of promoting one vendor in every single thread you can usually tell that person has an agenda.

Lets see if the shoe fits. Here is a quick search for AMD and FIVR all in different threads. And this is just a very small selection.

I'm buying up these AMD Jan 2020 $8 calls @ ~3.30 each. There is no way I lose money on these. AMD would have to stay under $10 for 2 years lol

AMD stock just took off. NVDA stock tanking after hours. This will only continue tomorrow. Best day of trading this year for me.

However, we've already seen how Ryzen has better MT scaling than Intel and we've also already seen that Ryzen uses less power. I think it's possible intel squeezed everything it could out of the skylake architecture and couldn't get the chip to compete in MT anyway.

This company (intel) is a short's dream in 2018. The best part is you can take advantage with AMD calls and INTC puts and have massive leverage on your trades.

Wow I guess that puts a nail in the "gaming monster" coffin for the 7700k. AMD faster at 3.9Ghz than KL at 5Ghz... Intel is screwed.

Intel had extremely unethical business practices specifically towards AMD for a decade.

Even when intel was losing nearly every benchmark and was being panned for its 32 stage pipeline and terribly expensive RAMBUS ram they still charged 2x what AMD did for a comparable sku.

From what I understand a lot of the higher ups at intel are buying AMD stock right now, and making good returns.

 

[formulav8]

NM, didn't notice it was fully answered already.

 

[FIVR]

Lets see if the shoe fits. Here is a quick search for AMD and FIVR all in different threads. And this is just a very small selection.

Funny how giving accurate investment advice is construed as "bias". Weren't you the one saying AMD was perilously overbought at $10?



I invite anybody to read every single post I made, they are all correct. Take a look at how the stocks have performed. See who is right, and who is dullard.