When U.S. companies dodge taxes, is it unpatriotic?

[nehalem256]

Anyways, if these companies want to move, fine. But since a lot of them are pharmaceutical companies getting a lot of money from Medicare, it's time we stop sending our money overseas and allow Medicare to negotiate a better deal, instead of letting these foreigners charge US taxpayer an arm and a leg.

Racist :whiste:

 

[Veliko]

Even more? What is being taken from them now?

This is what you said:

Why is it when we talk about the rich or corporations it's always about your fair share? What is a fair share for those at the bottom that don't really even pay an income tax or get more back than they pay in?

You've already acknowledged that they're at the bottom so precisely what is it you want them to give?

You're very wrong with your claim that the poor get back more than they put in.

 

[Veliko]

The vast majority of the people would never participate here in the US. They are smarter than that. They realize it would only make things worse. The revolution we see people drooling at the mouth over already happened. It's not my fault that all it amounted to was a bunch of whiney self entitled brats smelling up central parks.

Which revolution are you talking about?

 

[Veliko]

Why would he be outnumbered? He will most likely sitting in his living room watching the news of idiotic revolutionaries getting their asses handed to them by the police.

No he wouldn't, because his living room would be on fire and he would be out looking for food.

 

[Exterous]

LOL, yeah, Walgreens is engaging in civil disobedience by relocating to Ireland.

At least bother to be accurate in your posts. Walgreens is not relocating to Ireland. If they did complete the acquisition of Alliance Boots any likely move would be to Switzerland. This is not even close to doing the same thing as the Double Irish or similar tax evasion schemes. Why? Well, one because Ireland's tax is somewhere around 12.5% compared to the Swiss rate around 20%. Clearly this is not about paying the least amount of taxes. Second a huge chunk of Walgreen's business is overseas - over 1/3. And under US tax rules a US company has to pay US tax on income not earned in the US. Now this only happens when they bring the money to the US so it also encourages companies to spend that money overseas instead of in the US. The tax code is encouraging companies to keep $1.95 trillion parked in overseas banks instead of bringing it back to the US. Thats a lot of lost expansion\tax revenue\salary

Don't want companies moving overseas? Reform the tax code to match everyone else's and don't tax foreign income. Well, unless we are trying to mimic that economic powerhouse of Eritrea (the only other country in the world to do this).

 

[Londo_Jowo]

No he wouldn't, because his living room would be on fire and he would be out looking for food.

I didn't realize that Matt was rich, how rich is he? Or is he a middle class? If it's the later he will be doing what I posted earlier.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

It is unpatriotic to attempt to shackle the freedoms of people. How dare anyone suggest that we limit the freedoms of the purest form of job creators




....

This is all part of a gross myth. One person or institution's "freedom" can affect the "freedom" and well-being of millions adversely.

I also must despise that Wall Street moron who insinuated that we should all emulate the 2-percenters. Must people come up in life with a limited, but realistic set of expectations. They prepare themselves to be employable in any number of useful avenues. If they didn't make themselves available to employers, there wouldn't be any wealth creation.

Here's my take on one source of this myth.

Ayn Rand.

Ayn Rand was coddled as the daughter of a pharmacist, in a family of atheists who were ethnically Jewish. She entered college just before the Bolshevik Revolution, and studied mostly -- almost exclusively -- languages and classical philosophy. I have no indication that she took any credits in economics, other social sciences or the hard sciences. There's not much indication of mathematics in that education. She became enamored of the philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, also a favorite of Adolf Hitler.

Then she entered "Russian Film School" -- a graduate program. With some other students, she demonstrated against the expropriation of private property; she would later become bitter because they'd taken her father's pharmacy. Initially, the Communists weren't going to let her graduate from film school, but they actually relented, and she did graduate.

Then, she came to the States, headed for Hollywood, and quickly became a protégé of Cecil B. deMille. She was fully employed all during the Depression, able to dine daily at restaurants and live "above it all." She began producing her prolix writings, for instance, "We, The Living," pouring out her vitriol against the regime that made her life so hard by allowing her to graduate from film school. [Graduating, while millions of folks in USSR were relocated, starving, trying to rise out of the aftermath of the Revolution.]

I can only speculate about some . . teenager . . . rummaging around the shelves of her daddy's pharmacy, but in her new life as an American, she became a speed freak.

If you examine the wordy novel "Atlas Shrugged," it seems likely the role of a main character was really a Rand fantasy -- to be a railroad heiress and a "wealth creator." Otherwise, the values she promoted -- pure selfishness, atheism, free love -- were fairly contrary to positions held by most Americans.

At the end, she had done nothing with the royalties from her books: she was destitute. Diagnosed with lung cancer (having been a chain smoker all her life), she filed for Social Security and Medicare. Most certainly -- because she said so -- she was ashamed to take the benefits she worked for all her life.

At most, her works are prolix fiction: the output of a career narcissist who used 1,000 words where 100 would do the trick. None of her works has ever been taken seriously by academics of literature or literary history, and -- no -- that consensus wasn't born of some liberal plot against her thinking. They just tend to think her drivel was worthless.

If you intend to expose yourself to thousands of pages of fictional drivel, you should also expose yourself to other (real) American authors like Steinbeck, or F. Scott Fitzgerald, or Upton Sinclair.

Could I have been a "wealth creator" in this mythical sense? Sure. But the last thing I wanted to do with my life was to seek a career on Wall Street. I wanted to do something "meaningful."

In sum, philosophy will get you about as much as a dime for a cup of coffee, no less than religion. There is no "scientific method," no interplay of empirical data-gathering and deductive logic we trace back to Rene Descartes and Francis Bacon. It is often a construct of someone's idea of "how things should be," with no consideration of "how things are."

So much for the "wealth creators" who gamble with huge fortunes, perhaps no less ignorant than anyone else, who may have come up with a silver-spoon in one hand and a gold cell-phone in another. These aren't "problem solvers." They're predatory outsourcers.

And -- please -- don't try and lump Steve Jobs or Bill Gates into that crowd. True -- Gates came up with a $2 million trust-fund, bailed out of Harvard, and didn't need to keep body and soul together while melding both his technical prowess and business acumen to build a great company.

Both of those guys were college dropouts, who had the opportunity to attend Harvard or Stanford (in Jobs' case) and chose a different path. Jobs could putter and work in his parents' garage with Wozniak; he had a place to live. People with less to fall back on don't drop out of college if they can help it.

Jobs didn't even have the technical expertise: his forte was graphic design. And neither of those men would try and tell you that the companies they built were their own, exclusive creation. They depended on a team of people -- many of whom just landed on the right checkerboard square at the right time.

 

[Veliko]

I didn't realize that Matt was rich, how rich is he? Or is he a middle class? If it's the later he will be doing what I posted earlier.

If all the poorer people are rioting, who will be serving him his food in the shops? And if he has food that the rioters don't have they will be smashing his house up for it.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

If all the poorer people are rioting, who will be serving him his food in the shops? And if he has food that the rioters don't have they will be smashing his house up for it.

LMAO!!!! That day will never come, the only people that believe something like this would occur are delusional.

 

[Veliko]

LMAO!!!! That day will never come, the only people that believe something like this would occur are delusional.

Well you were talking authoritatively about what will be happening on 'the day' yourself only a few posts ago so I don't quite understand why you've changed tac so quickly.

The US was founded and shaped by revolutions, as are most modern nations, so your claim makes little sense when you consider what's happened during history.

 

[theeedude]

And Durban has the balls to call out Walgreens when he and others are squeezing them with reimbursements lower than it costs to do business, sometimes lower than actual acquisition, causes huge increases in costs of compliance with nonsense regulations, making a profit into a loss. Where is Durbin with that? Oh, no he doesn't want to talk about that. As Obama had the nerve to say it may be legal but it's wrong.

Walgreens can complain to their home Swiss (not Irish, thanks Exterous) government if they don't like it. Maybe the Swiss will reimburse them higher than Medicare, since that's where they pay taxes. Don't come to the US government asking for our taxpayer money if you don't want to pay taxes here yourself.

 

[Genx87]

Well well look which party is taking on the banner of nationalism.

 

[BoberFett]

Well well look which party is taking on the banner of nationalism.

Was there ever a question? American "liberals" have gone from fighting the man to licking his boots over the past 40 years.

 

[Spungo]

Quite a post.

Bottom line is the Pitchforks will be coming for them.

For those that dare to stay Stateside.

Yep. I follow a lot of financial stuff, and this is a common theme being discussed by rich people. Guys like Doug Casey and Simon Black have been saying for years that people with significant wealth should consider buying real estate outside of the country because real estate, in addition to gold and silver, is one thing that doesn't need to be reported to the US government. The US government is getting more crazed every year, creating things like FATCA, and fining a French bank because one of their European branches is doing business with a "terrorist" nation. The US government is saying that no country in the entire world should be allowed to do business with any country the US doesn't like. This is what a desperate government looks like. Forget the peasants coming to kill you and take your stuff. The government will probably try it first.

 

[glenn1]

If all the poorer people are rioting, who will be serving him his food in the shops? And if he has food that the rioters don't have they will be smashing his house up for it.

We would only be so lucky that the prole rioted against the wealthier residents of Manhattan and San Francisco and started lynching them.

 

[theeedude]

Well well look which party is taking on the banner of nationalism.

The only party that actually cares about America beyond empty slogans and flag waiving.

 

[MrPickins]

Racist :whiste:

I didn't know "foreign" is a race...

 

[Fern]

Originally Posted by senseamp

Originally Posted by senseamp
LOL, yeah, Walgreens is engaging in civil disobedience by relocating to Ireland.

Are they breaking any law?

No, thus civil disobedience is irrelevant.

Fern

The OP didn't ask whether it was illegal, just whether it was unpatriotic.
Thus, not sure what your point is.

You asked if Walgreens was engaging in civil disobedience.

I answered your question.

Since they weren't breaking any law, there was no disobedience, civil or otherwise.

Fern

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Walgreens can complain to their home Swiss (not Irish, thanks Exterous) government if they don't like it. Maybe the Swiss will reimburse them higher than Medicare, since that's where they pay taxes. Don't come to the US government asking for our taxpayer money if you don't want to pay taxes here yourself.

As usual you miss the point. Let's turn this around a bit. I remember you complaining about wage fixing in Silicon Valley. Let's have DC solve that problem. Let's have half or more income to your industry come from there. You'll love it! Now for every dollar it costs for you to do your job your get paid 80 cents. My wish is you get billions worth of business from them.

 

[bshole]

Was there ever a question? American "liberals" have gone from fighting the man to licking his boots over the past 40 years.

Yea that is utter bullshit! I am always sticking it to the man on this forum. You know that better than anyone.

 

[JEDIYoda]

When the Clintons dodge taxes is it unpatriotic?

Dodge? How so?

No if they are dodging taxes legally, then no it is not unpatriotic!!

 

[glenn1]

Yea that is utter bullshit! I am always sticking it to the man on this forum. You know that better than anyone.

LOL. Let's hear your examples of "sticking it to the man." I'm sure this will be pure comedy gold.

 

[Oldgamer]

Apparently Mark Cuban is speaking out on this. Here is the link https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/mark-cuban-youre-company-moving-130751365.html

Mark Cuban isn't a fan of tax inversions, either.

Last night, President Obama spoke with CNBC's Steve Liesman, and their first topic of conversation was the issue of tax inversions, or mergers where U.S.-based companies acquire foreign companies and move their tax base overseas to enjoy lower rates.

Obama said this strategy, among other things, "undermines people's confidence in how companies are thinking about their responsibilities to the country as a whole."

Cuban took his rhetoric a step further: he said he's selling stock in companies that move for tax reasons.

On Twitter this morning, Cuban fired off a series of tweets about how companies that move their tax base overseas to avoid paying taxes force existing taxpayers to make it up elsewhere.

If I own stock in your company and you move offshore for tax reasons I'm selling your stock. There are enough investment choices here

— Mark Cuban (@mcuban) July 25, 2014
If you talk to me as a shareholder and ask me to accept a higher PE so you can save jobs I'm open to it. The risk doesn't leave the system

— Mark Cuban (@mcuban) July 25, 2014
. @pointsnfigures no it doesn't. Shareholder value should increase my net worth. Reduced tax receipts get paid by me and you elsewhere

— Mark Cuban (@mcuban) July 25, 2014
When companies move off shore to save on taxes, you and I make up the tax shortfall elsewhere sell those stocks and they won't move

— Mark Cuban (@mcuban) July 25, 2014
Look at your portfolio holistically.A corp move may push up the stock. it may push up your taxes Taxes r forever. #costdontleavethesystem

— Mark Cuban (@mcuban) July 25, 2014
Cuban is one of the most outspoken and influential business voices around, and his comments are certain to get notice.
The chances that these comments spur action in Congress, which is where any move to limit tax inversions would come from, are probably remote.

But the more people who are outspoken against tax inversions, the harder it might be for Congress and corporations to maintain the status quo.

 

[glenn1]

Yea that is utter bullshit! I am always sticking it to the man on this forum. You know that better than anyone.

"I signed an awareness petition calling for higher taxes on someone other than me" #stickingittotheman

"I decided to not vaccinate my children so they won't get austism" #stickingittotheman

"I'll join Occupy Wall Street and hang out for a few months disrupting the local residents' lives" #stickingittotheman

"I shop at Whole Foods rather than big corporations like WalMart" #stickingittotheman

 

[BoberFett]

Yea that is utter bullshit! I am always sticking it to the man on this forum. You know that better than anyone.

You and your stock market millions sure are sticking it to him, eh comrade?

Just don't let the revolution affect your 401k! Amirite?