When the memory gets hotter? OC

[ppdemo]

hi all, as the title says, what factors make the memory raise temperature?
more speed, less timmings or more voltage?
ask this because put my 2400mhz ddr3 gskill sniper memory at 2800mhz at the same voltage (1.65v), and too i config timmings in bios an this seem to works fine , but im worried about temps.

1)can i measure the temperature of the ram memory taking into account the temperature of the motherboard?

2)the temps of the individual hardware(cpu, ram, hdd), do they influence in the motherboard temps?

3) how i test the ram memory temps?

 

[VirtualLarry]

The only way I know of to check RAM temps, is if the DIMM supports that feature. I think some of Crucial's "Gaming" memory kits let you do that, with a special program they provide.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I've noticed that my DDR4 G.SKILLs report temperatures to HWINFO64.

Mmm . . . gives me an idea. . . Well, you'd want to run Prime Blend or Prime LFFTs. I started IntelBurnTest to see what happens with a "High" setting which uses maybe half the RAM. Temperatures don't exceed 31C for the hottest RAM module. Warmest. That's a better word.

 

[Soulkeeper]

i've used one of those remote temp sensors with the laser pointer.
Modern memory tends not to get too hot unless you start raising the voltages

 

[denis280]

2400mhz ddr3 gskill sniper memory at 2800mhz at the same voltage (1.65v)

No problem.as long you don't rise the voltage higher.

 

[Valantar]

No problem.as long you don't rise the voltage higher.

Even then, the power consumption of RAM is so close to negligible that even the most basic heatspreader will dissipate it without a hitch. My DDR2-1066 runs at 2V, and don't even come close to warm to the touch.

 

[ppdemo]

ok thanks guys, but what about the IMC, because when i went up 2800mhz i note that vccsa went up to

 

[BonzaiDuck]

ok thanks guys, but what about the IMC, because when i went up 2800mhz i note that vccsa went up to

OK . . . You're using DDR3 XMP 2400Mhz G.SKILLs. What processor are you using?

I think it depends on the motherboard, and there is a VCCIO and a VCCSA voltage. I usually assume that the VCCIO reflects IMC voltage, and I may tweak it for different RAM scenarios. If I leave it on "Auto" for my DDR4-3200 G.SKILLs, the monitor tells me it is pushing 1.15V, or 0.05V below the consensual safe limit. I usually leave VCCSA on "Auto."

Tweaks to the RAM that require adjustments to the VCCIO/IMC voltage will increase the temperature of the processor slightly. If it were even noticeable, it is barely so.

If you're using an AMD processor as opposed to Intel, then anything I say here might be as good as gibberish and someone else should answer your lingering questions.

 

[lopri]

According to Micron,

DDR2-800 - 396 mW, 2Gb
DDR3L-1866 - 339 mW, 4Gb
DDR4-1866 - 247 mW, 4Gb

They are but an example.

http://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/5Micron.pdf?&cc=US&lc=eng (PDF, see pg.7)

 

[ppdemo]

my cpu i7 4790k
motherboard asus z97a
vccsa is in auto(0.824v), but when i raise the memory at 2800mhz the voltage is about 1.22
On the other hand, I would also like to know for sure what vccio option is in my mother, because i do not see an option that says VCCIO
I leave the link of motherboard manual to tell me what is VCCIO for you
http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1150/Z97-A_USB31/E10107_Z97-A_USB_31_for_web_only.pdf

 

[Rifter]

just us a IR thermometer. they are like $10-20 and can be used on anything.

 

[lopri]

my cpu i7 4790k
motherboard asus z97a
vccsa is in auto(0.824v), but when i raise the memory at 2800mhz the voltage is about 1.22
On the other hand, I would also like to know for sure what vccio option is in my mother, because i do not see an option that says VCCIO
I leave the link of motherboard manual to tell me what is VCCIO for you
http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1150/Z97-A_USB31/E10107_Z97-A_USB_31_for_web_only.pdf

 

[lopri]

So VCCIO has to do with the CPU's PCIe voltage. You need not meddle with it. VCC is the core voltage, and VDDQ is the IMC voltage.

 

[ppdemo]

thanks lopri but i dont see any VDDQ in the bios settings, those that could become, are the following although I do not know which

VCCSA and within this analog and digital IO
and too ive seen vttddr voltage option

 

[lopri]

Can you list the exact labels of options available? The bios labels are notoriously confusing and it may be necessary to take a several steps of trial and error. It just dawned on me that some people might call it with a different meaning. If there is nothing else that points to the memory controller voltage, it is possible that the board's BIOS refer to System Agent as one. vttddr is obviously memory voltage. (or is it under CPU section, too?)

Edit: I stand corrected. Check the following information on System Agent.

The System Agent houses the traditional North Bridge. You get a 16 PCIe 2.0 lanes that can be split into two x8s. There’s a redesigned dual-channel DDR3 memory controller that finally restores memory latency to around Lynnfield levels (Clarkdale moved the memory controller off the CPU die and onto the GPU).

The SA also has the DMI interface, display engine and the PCU (Power Control Unit). The SA clock speed is lower than the rest of the core and it is on its own power plane.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3922/intels-sandy-bridge-architecture-exposed/4

Apparently System Agent is a catch-all phrase for the CPU's uncore portion, i.e. parts other than CPU's execution cores and GPU cores. Therefore if the BIOS does not have a separate control for memory controller voltage, System Agent might as well be it.

 

[ppdemo]

Labels:
cpu core voltage
cpu cache voltage
cpu sistem agent voltage and within this:
*cpu analog i/o voltage (with offset label)
*cpu digital i/o voltage (with offset label)
svid support
cpu input voltage
dram voltage
pch core voltage
pch vlx voltage
vttddr voltage

 

[lopri]

My best educated guess is:

cpu core voltage = CPU core voltage
cpu cache voltage = memory controller voltage
cpu sistem agent voltage and within this:
*cpu analog i/o voltage (with offset label) = analog part, e.g. display output related voltage
*cpu digital i/o voltage (with offset label) = digital i/o, e.g. PCIe voltage

What you should keep in mind is that all of the above make up a single piece of silicon, meaning they are closely connected electronically. There should be no drastic voltage differences between those. So if you are overclocking by increasing CPU core voltage by alot, it makes sense to give a bit more voltage on other part of the same silicon.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

my cpu i7 4790k
motherboard asus z97a
vccsa is in auto(0.824v), but when i raise the memory at 2800mhz the voltage is about 1.22
On the other hand, I would also like to know for sure what vccio option is in my mother, because i do not see an option that says VCCIO
I leave the link of motherboard manual to tell me what is VCCIO for you
http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1150/Z97-A_USB31/E10107_Z97-A_USB_31_for_web_only.pdf

That was an interesting exercise -- for me. I skipped that CPU generation and motherboard chipset. Approach with caution, but I may have read somewhere that you would tweak the VCCSA. I had Sandy Bridge Z68 and Ivy Bridge Z77, and now -- Skylake Z170. All of those chipsets of the ASUS boards I had distinguished between VCCIO and VCCSA.

So -- yes -- I find it puzzling. If your further investigations prove something towards my sketchy recollections about material I scanned a year ago, then find the upper safe spec from Intel for VCCSA as a limit to further action.

Generally, though , I have found that following XMP RAM profiles should adjust those voltages (both, depending on motherboard) -- automatically. The only time I ever really needed to change anything manually: I was either trying to run at COMMAND_RATE = 1, or I was overclocking DDR31600 to 1866 with loosened timings and 2x 2x4GB kits of G.SKILL.

IF you just select the XMP profile for a 2xmodule RAM-kit, you should be able to leave the voltages on auto and simply attend to the CPU voltage in your overclocking profile.

Also as an afterthought: there has been an "A" model of ASUS boards and Intel chipsets since Z77 -- we have a Z77A. They are good boards, but they are still budget boards. I found plenty of things missing on our Z77A. It would overclock just a tad less than a better Z68 board. But we abjured making a project out of it to opt for stock settings, just because of a few missing options in the BIOS.

 

[VirtualLarry]

What you should keep in mind is that all of the above make up a single piece of silicon, meaning they are closely connected electronically. There should be no drastic voltage differences between those. So if you are overclocking by increasing CPU core voltage by alot, it makes sense to give a bit more voltage on other part of the same silicon.

On my Skylake G4400 and i5-6400 CPUs, when I was BLCK OCing them, the "uncore" gets overclocked too, since they both operate on a fixed multiplier, when BLCK OCing.

I found that OCed that were otherwise unstable, would stabilize, if I increase my VDIMM on my ASRock boards.

My working theory is that the VDIMM voltage, is also the "uncore" voltage, and boosting that, helps the uncore / L3 cache to overclock better.

With a standard multiplier OC, with a "Z"-series Skylake board, and a "K"-CPU, you can adjust the uncore / cache multiplier separately from the CPU Core multiplier.

 

[ppdemo]

cpu cache voltage = memory controller voltage

thanks lopri but so I've been reading the IMC is in VCCSA
cpu cache voltage is voltage for cache only.
I also thank all of you for your answers and help! regards guys

 

[ppdemo]

other question, how can i see/monitor cpu analog and digital I/O Voltages? my motherboard dont show me these, only offset. What I can see is Vccsa voltage.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

other question, how can i see/monitor cpu analog and digital I/O Voltages? my motherboard dont show me these, only offset. What I can see is Vccsa voltage.

It's an ASUS motherboard. Not familiar with the Z97A, but I've seen the trends in BIOS organization with ASUS Z68, Z77 (Z77A), and Z170 boards.

In the BIOS "Tweaker" menu where the user can adjust VCORE and Offset with other features, there should be a voltage monitor alongside (to the left of) the boxes that allow for drop-down lists or manual entry of voltage settings.

Some boards in the top tier provide plastic wells with contact points where voltages can be measure with a multimeter. It is my personal practice to simply use a good monitoring program like HWInfo64. HW Monitor is less comprehensive, and may not report VCORE while reporting VID. ASUS Suite has a monitor, and the voltages should be accurate there.

Examining monitored values in BIOS has limited usefulness, because it won't show voltages at turbo speeds. It should, however, give you a good idea of RAM-related voltage values.

 

[ppdemo]

a good monitoring program like HWInfo64

ok i have hwinfo64 but what would the voltage that corresponds to the I/O voltage?

 

[ppdemo]

i have another doubt, among several:
why the recommended cache voltage for 24/7 is 1.15v ask this cause my cache stock is 1.18v, that is to say, a stock starts from 1.185v without OC

 

[BonzaiDuck]

i have another doubt, among several:
why the recommended cache voltage for 24/7 is 1.15v ask this cause my cache stock is 1.18v, that is to say, a stock starts from 1.185v without OC

So, as someone suggested, that MAY BE the IMC voltage? Often, the "Auto" values apply an extra margin.

What had been "VCCIO" or "VTT" in earlier boards was indeed the IMC voltage, and it had been constrained by a value that cannot fall by more than 0.5V below a VDIMM of 1.5V -- ON THOSE BOARDS, CHIPSETS AND CPUs.

In this go-around with my Skylake, it should not exceed 1.20V, which is the Intel spec maximum which they recommend.

Wait a minute! I looked at his screenie. He has a "VTT" value. I think THAT is the IMC voltage we're seeking. I just haven't worked with that Haswell-refresh board and chip. That looks more like what it would give for a stock value, based on my experience between Sandy and Skylake.

Isn't there any clue or explanation however brief in the mobo manual? I think that might be it. Someone else?

If you leave that voltage at auto and choose not to overclock the RAM but only run it at spec speed and timings, it should be fine. Maybe for larger DDR3 modules, or all slots filled, test for stability. If it throws something like a 09C error, you could bump it up and with the value shown, you have really some room to do it. Sometimes the extra RAM might actually require a bit more VCORE. But for a reasonable overclock setting, going from one hardware configuration to the other, it's not a huge change. A few notches, with a couple more for good measure.

Also, for overclocking through a few i7/i5 gens, there is a sweet spot for the IMC voltage. Too much is bad, too little is bad -- a sweet spot. But I didn't have to do anything with it for DDR4 3200 14-14-14 1.35V except leave it at "auto."