• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

When Politicians tell big lies

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
345
126
One thing our culture has a hard time dealing with is when politicians are 'beyond the pale'.

The media has a hard time just saying 'this major candidate is a flat out liar'. The strongest they seem able to do are the 'critics say' and the 'evidence appears to suggest' lines.

So those politicians who are outreageously dishonest enough to tell big lies seem to get some damage control from doing so.

Case in point: The Alaska legislature's bi-partisan (large majority Republican) report on her abuse of power said as its first finding that she did, as the media reported, "found that Palin "abused her power" by violating the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act, which holds that any "effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action" is a violation of the public trust."

Palin's response was to claim the report 'cleared her' of 'any hint of ethical wrongdoing'.

She lied. Big lie. Clear lie.

But the media was just unable to call her on it, exactly. A reporter pointed out the report in its first finding did say she abused her power and violated the statute, but did not challenge her for her lie, and instead simply asked her if she felt she'd done anything wrong, as if she had not just lied. Palin said absolutely nothing.

That'd be like asking reporting the OJ Simpson verdict with a quote from him on whether he felt he had done anything wrong after he said the jury had cleared him.

I think bit lie politicians need to be confronted on their actions. The issue needs to shift from Troopergate to Liargate, to say to Palin, 'why are you lying about the report?'

It needs to be reported as a matter of fact, not controversy, that she is lying about what the report said.

What this incident suggest is that, regardless of her other issue, including the behavior in Troopergate, she is willing to tell big lies for political reasons, and that's a big issue.

And it should be a bi-partisan one.

This isn't one of those lies where there is another side to the story, where the issue has some controversy - it's a blatantly dishonest attempt to use PR against the report.

She is welcome to say she disagrees with the findings all day long, but not to lie about what the report says.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
who cares about Palin? she's just some chick who lost the race for VP and went back to being an unknown governor of a frozen wasteland.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
345
126
Originally posted by: loki8481
who cares about Palin? she's just some chick who lost the race for VP and went back to being an unknown governor of a frozen wasteland.
Yes, but she could just as easily have been George Bush in 2000, elected.

I think it's important to note the issue of this type of lying and condemn it.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
101,624
5,919
126
if the media were actually hard on politicians they would have no access and so no story or job.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,929
141
106
It still boggles my mind that the McCain picked her without knowing this would happen. Fcktards.
 

Grunt03

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2000
3,131
0
0
Originally posted by: loki8481
who cares about Palin? she's just some chick who lost the race for VP and went back to being an unknown governor of a frozen wasteland.
Or perhaps a Governor spread in Playboy?????

 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
Gotta love a thread title like "When Politicians tell big lies."

Face the facts, this is the function of politicians, when their mouth moves, we know they are lying. Or at least spinning the truth until its spun, spindled and mutilated.

Sadly its not like there is a Pinocchio test, when they lie, their noses fail to grows longer. And God himself is missing in action, no lightening bolts fall out of the sky to strike the liar dead.

Moonbean has it only partly correct when he says "Imbeciles can be convinced of nothing. It's what makes them imbeciles." Actually one single brainless imbecile is no danger, but when they gang up
in a collection of imbeciles, we have the best current description of the GOP. Democrats have equal potential to duplicate the feat, but that was decades ago.

So will we settle for tried and true republirat liars, or will we give the dimocrats another chance to become liars, times like this try a man's soul.

Only imbeciles are not puzzled.
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
0
"She has more integrity in her pinky than Barry ever had. "

LOL You've just proven that the word "integrity" is not actually a part of your vocabulary. You may be able to parrot the word, but have no clue what it means.
 

m1ldslide1

Platinum Member
Feb 20, 2006
2,321
0
0
Originally posted by: Butterbean
You want to see a whopper - check out how Obams is now trying to hide fact he was with Acorn. Hes busted in bare butt lie. Barry is quite the sleazer. No wonder his fans hate Palin. She has more integrity in her pinky than Barry ever had.


Busted... Obama Lied About His ACORN Training Sessions
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot....ht-smears-website.html

Obama and Acorn
Community organizers, phony voters, and your tax dollars.

http://www.marketwatch.com/new...9E87ED547%7D&dist=hppr


RNC: Obama & Acorn Fact Sheet
The Acorn/Obama Rhetoric

http://www.marketwatch.com/new...9E87ED547%7D&dist=hppr
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Imbeciles can be convinced of anything. It's what makes them imbeciles.
Fixed and applied. ;)
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
I know, I don't know why people can't call a duck a duck. She did plainly lie, there is no debate valid for it.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I know, I don't know why people can't call a duck a duck. She did plainly lie, there is no debate valid for it.
There's also the possibility that she just didn't understand the finds of the report. After seeing her interview with Couric I believe that could be a definite possibility.

 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Palin's response was to claim the report 'cleared her' of 'any hint of ethical wrongdoing'.
IMO, had she left out the underlined words above she might be OK in her remarks.

Previously, I read that the report used the word "likely" as a modifier in their findings. I find that wishy-washy.

I thought our standard was generally "beyond a reasonable doubt". "Likely" WTH kind of standard is that?

Then I've noticed that they levied NO punishment? How can you break the rules and get no punishment? That makes no sense to me.

Meh sounds like political BS to me, but since it doesn't matter anyway I can't get motivated to check into it.

Fern
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Originally posted by: Fern
Palin's response was to claim the report 'cleared her' of 'any hint of ethical wrongdoing'.
IMO, had she left out the underlined words above she might be OK in her remarks.

Previously, I read that the report used the word "likely" as a modifier in their findings. I find that wishy-washy.

I thought our standard was generally "beyond a reasonable doubt". "Likely" WTH kind of standard is that?

Then I've noticed that they levied NO punishment? How can you break the rules and get no punishment? That makes no sense to me.

Meh sounds like political BS to me, but since it doesn't matter anyway I can't get motivated to check into it.

Fern
Well the real culprit was her asshole husband, she's guilty of letting him.

 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
0
Fern

They had the power to investigate, but not to punish. So "no punishment" does not equal "political BS".
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
44,470
4,317
136
Ask and ye shall receive. :D

In a brief telephone conversation Saturday with Alaska reporters, Gov. Sarah Palin said she did nothing wrong in the Troopergate affair involving her ex-brother-in-law and feels vindicated by a legislative investigation, the results of which are detailed in a hefty report.

"Well, I'm very, very pleased to be cleared of any legal wrongdoing ... any hint of any kind of unethical activity there," the governor said from her car on the way to a campaign stop in Philadelphia.

[...]

Palin's characterization of the report is wrong, Sen. Kim Elton said later Saturday when told of the governor's comments. The Juneau Democrat chairs the Legislative Council, which authorized the investigation and released the report.

"Finding No. 1 says she violated the ethics law," Elton said. "Anybody who suggests that the report does not say she broke the law, they just need to read the report. They don't even need to read all 300 pages of it, just page seven or eight."

[...]

Saturday's tightly controlled telephone press conference with three Alaska reporters lasted for about 5 minutes and 30 seconds. Each reporter was limited to one question. Palin was traveling to a Philadelphia Flyers hockey game, where she dropped the puck. Taylor Griffin, a campaign spokesman, said she's trying to find more time to talk with Alaska reporters before the Nov. 4 election.
Edit: The audio of the phone press conference is here.

So, what do you say, al, did she tell a bald-faced lie or not?
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
0
0
That's not a full quote...what's with the "..."?

But unless there's some other context to it, pretty much looks like a lie to me. I haven't read the report either, don't intend to. Decided today I'm for sure voting 3rd party :)


edit: I see your second link has a transcript:

Palin: Hey, thank you so, Meg. Thank you so much. Thank you also to our local reporters up there in Alaska. Even hearing your names make me feel like I?m right there with you at home. It?s good to get to speak with you. Let me talk a little bit about the Tasergate issue if you guys would let me and, Meg, you want me to just jump right on in there?

Stapleton: Sure governor, go ahead.

Palin: OK cool.

Well, I?m very very pleased to be cleared of any legal wrongdoing ? any hint of any kind of unethical activity there. Very pleased to be cleared of any of that. Todd did what anyone would have done given this state trooper?s very, very troubling behavior and his dangerous threats against our family. Todd did what I think any Alaskan would do.

And he, Todd did what the state?s Department of Law Web site tells anyone to do if they have a concern about a state trooper. And that?s you go to the commissioner and you express your concern. And Todd did what our personal detail asked him to do. Bob Cockrell early on as I was elected and was asked are there any threats against you, and Todd brought the concern as I did to Commissioner Monegan about the state trooper?s threats. He did what any ? I think -- any rational person would do so again, nothing to apologize there with Todd?s actions and again very pleased to be cleared of any legal wrongdoing.

(Stapleton invites the first question).

ADN: Governor, finding No.1 on the report was that you abused your power by violating state law. Do you think you did anything wrong at all in this Troopergate case?

Palin: Not at all and I?ll tell you, it, I think that you?re always going to ruffle feathers as you do what you believe is in the best interest of the people whom you are serving. In this case I knew that I had to have the right people in the right position at the right time in this cabinet to best serve Alaskans, and Walt Monegan was not the right person at the right time to meet the goals that we had set out in our administration. So no, not having done anything wrong, and again very much appreciating being cleared of any legal wrongdoing or unethical activity at all.

 

wwswimming

Banned
Jan 21, 2006
3,702
1
0
depends on the definition of a big lie.

lying about a romantic affair vs. telling lies in order to sell a war.

i would say the former is between Clinton & his wife. until he
tried to get clever about it when he was being deposed.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
44,470
4,317
136
Originally posted by: Fern
Palin's response was to claim the report 'cleared her' of 'any hint of ethical wrongdoing'.
IMO, had she left out the underlined words above she might be OK in her remarks.

Previously, I read that the report used the word "likely" as a modifier in their findings. I find that wishy-washy.

I thought our standard was generally "beyond a reasonable doubt". "Likely" WTH kind of standard is that?
You read WRONG, Fern. There is no "likely" modifier whatsoever in the report's finding that she violated Alaska's ethics law.

Finding Number One

For the reasons explained in section IV of this report, I find that Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act. Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) provides

"The legislature reaffirms that each public officer holds office as a public trust, and any effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action is a violation of that trust."




 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
44,470
4,317
136
Originally posted by: alchemize
But unless there's some other context to it, pretty much looks like a lie to me. I haven't read the report either, don't intend to. Decided today I'm for sure voting 3rd party
Barr, Nader, Daffy Duck, who? :D
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,674
482
126
She isn't polished or smart enough to know how to spin effectively so she just flat-out lies instead.

It's kind of funny that she can't even keep her foot out of her mouth even with only one question and answer between a doorway and her bus.
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
Governor Palin doesn't seem to be paying a political price (yet) for the report's conclusions, or for her patent misinterpretation of those conclusions. At least so far, nothing seems to stick to her.

Especially coherent thoughts.





FWIW, Slate OnLine has a piece on the advice Governor Palin could give Alberto Gonzales on dodging a scandal.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY