When Obama flees Afghanistan in 2011, what will we have gained?

[Dari]

10 years, just like the Soviet Union. Seems like no one can pacify these Afghans. But all that blood and treasure would be worth nothing if nothing positive comes out of it. Can't we just pacify the tribal areas of Pakistan instead until the locals, tired of Al Qaeda causing American bombs raining on them, turn on the terrorists? It works well for Israel w.r.t. to her neighbors.

 

[Patranus]

Well, the world tried that, and left Afghanistan to be governed by the Muslims in the region resulting in the Taliban and 9/11.

 

[Craig234]

10 years, just like the Soviet Union. Seems like no one can pacify these Afghans. But all that blood and treasure would be worth nothing if nothing positive comes out of it. Can't we just pacify the tribal areas of Pakistan instead until the locals, tired of Al Qaeda causing American bombs raining on them, turn on the terrorists? It works well for Israel w.r.t. to her neighbors.

What's up with this word pacify? It sounds like the old Native American policy. Do you want to be pacified by a foreign power? We really have adopted this 'we rule the world, no one can be against us or else' thing.

 

[cubby1223]

What's up with this word pacify? It sounds like the old Native American policy. Do you want to be pacified by a foreign power? We really have adopted this 'we rule the world, no one can be against us or else' thing.

Take your meds and get some rest. You'll feel better in the morning.

Others around the world can be against us, they just cannot be allowed to plan and execute attacks against us.

Get out from behind your textbooks and go experience the real world some time.

 

[Jaskalas]

We should forget nation building.

Let them sort themselves out and if they ever touch us again we know where to find them.

 

[Red Dawn]

The cause was lost when Bush dropped the ball and invaded Iraq instead of finishing the Job in Afghanistan when we actually had a chance.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Gee.

No agenda with this thread, huh?

As RD noted, where was the outrage when The Shrub 'cut and ran' from Afghanistan in late 2002 and early 2003 to invade Iraq? Could that have had something to do with the Return of the Taliban? You betcha.

IIRC reducing the 'overseas contingency operations' to 30k troops in Iraq and Afghanistan by 2013 will save around $1 trillion over the next ten years. Any of you wing-nut Keyboard Kommandos have other ideas?

It is past time for the Afghan people (and the folks in Pakistan) to take some responsibility. Hundreds of billions of dollars have been dumped into this corrupt Hell Hole. It is obvious where the problems exist.

When the snow melts this Spring and Coalition casualties begin to rise as we 'clear and hold' these provinces are you going to blame Obama for that, too?





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[alphatarget1]

When the snow melts this Spring and Coalition casualties begin to rise as we 'clear and hold' these provinces are you going to blame Obama for that, too?

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Yes. He should have realized that Afghanistan is a lost cause and we should just get the hell out. I thought liberals were anti-war.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

The cause was lost when Bush dropped the ball and invaded Iraq instead of finishing the Job in Afghanistan when we actually had a chance.

This summary is all that needs to be said. Bush screwed us royally in Afghanistan. He had Al Qaeda's leadership cornered and could have wrapped this war up years ago but instead, chose to invade Iraq.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Gee.

No agenda with this thread, huh?

As RD noted, where was the outrage when The Shrub 'cut and ran' from Afghanistan in late 2002 and early 2003 to invade Iraq? Could that have had something to do with the Return of the Taliban? You betcha.

I always attributed it more to Bush's arrogance and stupidity than to the Taliban. He had to go finish the job Daddy dropped the ball on in 91, at least in his way of thinking.

IIRC reducing the 'overseas contingency operations' to 30k troops in Iraq and Afghanistan by 2013 will save around $1 trillion over the next ten years. Any of you wing-nut Keyboard Kommandos have other ideas?

2013 is too long. We should pull out of Iraq much sooner and the same with Afghanistan. They have had ample time to "train" to secure their own damn countries. If threats arise in the future in that region, a well placed series of cruise missiles or air strikes can be used to deal with it.

It is past time for the Afghan people (and the folks in Pakistan) to take some responsibility. Hundreds of billions of dollars have been dumped into this corrupt Hell Hole. It is obvious where the problems exist.

:thumbsup:

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Yes. He should have realized that Afghanistan is a lost cause and we should just get the hell out. I thought liberals were anti-war.

I'm not a liberal, but I am anti-war especially in the case of Iraq. Afghanistan was probably a winnable situation had we stuck to our guns and won that war rather than going off on George and Dick's Excellent Iraq Adventure, but now I fear it is too late.

 

[Dari]

Gee.

No agenda with this thread, huh?

As RD noted, where was the outrage when The Shrub 'cut and ran' from Afghanistan in late 2002 and early 2003 to invade Iraq? Could that have had something to do with the Return of the Taliban? You betcha.

IIRC reducing the 'overseas contingency operations' to 30k troops in Iraq and Afghanistan by 2013 will save around $1 trillion over the next ten years. Any of you wing-nut Keyboard Kommandos have other ideas?

It is past time for the Afghan people (and the folks in Pakistan) to take some responsibility. Hundreds of billions of dollars have been dumped into this corrupt Hell Hole. It is obvious where the problems exist.

When the snow melts this Spring and Coalition casualties begin to rise as we 'clear and hold' these provinces are you going to blame Obama for that, too?





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Your graph implies that the problem is three-fold. We have to deal with the terrorists in Baluchistan, the terrorists in the Northwest Provinces, and the terrorists that get help from Iran. With Afghanistan being landlocked, how on earth can we defeat multiple enemies fighting for different visions?

 

[Jhhnn]

Sadly, Obama is in the same sort of position as a mechanic handed a basket case torn to pieces by an incompetent, or a physician presented with a patient whose previously treatable condition has become critical because of lack of proper care.

Obviously, he's trying to save the situation, projections of failure being premature. It's less than amusing for those who were all gung-ho when GWB set out on this adventure to now take what they formerly called a "defeatist!" attitude, even as they call for more aggression wrt Iran...

Hand a guy a bucket o' shit, tell him he smells funny, offer that he needs another to balance the load...

 

[alphatarget1]

I'm not a liberal, but I am anti-war especially in the case of Iraq. Afghanistan was probably a winnable situation had we stuck to our guns and won that war rather than going off on George and Dick's Excellent Iraq Adventure, but now I fear it is too late.

Democrats could've filibustered the Iraq war vote in the senate but they didn't.

What's done is done. To my knowledge Afghanistan hasn't really had a stable government until the Taliban came along. Continuing the war and nation building of Afghanistan is not what's best for us IMHO.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

What's done is done. Democrats could've filibustered the Iraq war vote in the senate but they didn't.

No argument from me and you're correct, what is done is done.

 

[alphatarget1]

Sadly, Obama is in the same sort of position as a mechanic handed a basket case torn to pieces by an incompetent, or a physician presented with a patient whose previously treatable condition has become critical because of lack of proper care.

Obviously, he's trying to save the situation, projections of failure being premature. It's less than amusing for those who were all gung-ho when GWB set out on this adventure to now take what they formerly called a "defeatist!" attitude, even as they call for more aggression wrt Iran...

Hand a guy a bucket o' shit, tell him he smells funny, offer that he needs another to balance the load...

If you bought a stock for $20, it drops to $1 and it's likely that they will fail. Would you dump more money into the stock hoping for a recovery? It's chasing bad money with good money.

On a more human side of things, I'm sure many of us has known somebody who has fought in Afghanistan/Iraq, maybe even some who died in the line of duty. One of the guys from my high school died from an IED. At what point do we say enough is enough? Is keeping our troops there really protecting us here?

Obviously Big Government (tm) has failed to keep a rich Nigerian banker's kid off of a plane and he almost bombed us. What the fuck? Meanwhile TSA is continuing their Nazi ways of doing things.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Obviously Big Government (tm) has failed to keep a rich Nigerian banker's kid off of a plane and he almost bombed us. What the fuck? Meanwhile TSA is continuing their Nazi ways of doing things.

TSA irritates me the most. Oftentimes, they enact reactionary policies which clearly have no logical purpose other than to make it look like they're cracking down to make us all safer. No one is allowed to leave their seat in the last hour of the flight? SERIOUSLY? That is supposed to make us safe?

 

[Jhhnn]

Democrats could've filibustered the Iraq war vote in the senate but they didn't.

That's incredibly lame. The Bush Admin exploited 9/11 with fearmongering and lies to enable the invasion of Iraq- the public was infected with bloodlust, seeking revenge on anybody who had been "linked" to 9/11, Terrar! WMD's! and teh ebil Osama. The whole exercise was shameful in a shrewd and ruthless way.

The resolution was perfectly timed for the midterm elections, and standing in the way of that was political suicide. Dems got clobbered anyway, and probably would have been obliterated trying to stand against it.

That's a complete no-brainer, revisionist spin notwithstanding.

 

[Robor]

Democrats could've filibustered the Iraq war vote in the senate but they didn't.

Absolute BS. The entire country wanted blood after 9/11. I know people who seriously thought we should launch nukes. At that time anyone who was against invading Iraq was considered a weak terrorist pacifier.

What's done is done. To my knowledge Afghanistan hasn't really had a stable government until the Taliban came along. Continuing the war and nation building of Afghanistan is not what's best for us IMHO.

I agree completely.

 

[SooperDave]

Democrats could've filibustered the Iraq war vote in the senate but they didn't.

Remember how the American public reacted towards the Fench
when they didn't support the Iraq war? The fallout from that could
well have destroyed the Democratic party for many years. After all,
if you aren't for us you are against us was the motto at the time.

 

[alchemize]

That's incredibly lame. The Bush Admin exploited 9/11 with fearmongering and lies to enable the invasion of Iraq- the public was infected with bloodlust, seeking revenge on anybody who had been "linked" to 9/11, Terrar! WMD's! and teh ebil Osama. The whole exercise was shameful in a shrewd and ruthless way.

The resolution was perfectly timed for the midterm elections, and standing in the way of that was political suicide. Dems got clobbered anyway, and probably would have been obliterated trying to stand against it.

That's a complete no-brainer, revisionist spin notwithstanding.

LOL. Principles only matter when you can win elections with them. Cowards. Pussies.

 

[alphatarget1]

lol. Principles only matter when you can when elections with them. Cowards. Pussies.

qft.

 

[alphatarget1]

That's incredibly lame. The Bush Admin exploited 9/11 with fearmongering and lies to enable the invasion of Iraq- the public was infected with bloodlust,

Same thing Obama did with "hopemongering" to pass his "stimulus", but that's for another discussion. You're saying that our elected officials should make decisions based on electability instead of what's good for the country. It's partisan hacks like you that makes this country's political system so dysfunctional.

It was a Democrat who started the Vietnam war and at the time, most senators voted for the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. Will people ever learn? That elected officials, no matter which political affliation he/she has, needs to be held accountable for what they fucking say?

 

[Jhhnn]

LOL. Principles only matter when you can win elections with them. Cowards. Pussies.

Name-calling from the people of no principles at all, other than greed.

Quaint and apropos...

It would have been entirely convenient for Dems to sacrifice themselves in the 2002 midterms, I'm sure. They wouldn't have still been around to fight another day.

Perhaps the Russians should have sacrificed themselves down to the last man opposing the initial Nazi onslaught rather than regrouping, choosing the battlegrounds themselves.

 

[alchemize]

Name-calling from the people of no principles at all, other than greed.

Quaint and apropos...

It would have been entirely convenient for Dems to sacrifice themselves in the 2002 midterms, I'm sure. They wouldn't have still been around to fight another day.

Perhaps the Russians should have sacrificed themselves down to the last man opposing the initial Nazi onslaught rather than regrouping, choosing the battlegrounds themselves.

Cliffs:

"I know what you are but what am I?"

I was wrong on Iraq. So were the dems.

Yet you're still here defending them. Pussy. Coward. Apologist.