When "made in America" isn't an option

[werepossum]

Had a meeting with some salesmen today. Their firm is representing a Chinese company which makes HID lamps (meaning high pressure sodium and metal halide light bulbs) as well as a couple other industry-related companies. I told them straight out I do not like to specify Chinese-made products. But they made a good point - HID lamps are no longer manufactured in the United States, even though we still use millions of them. Buying these products made in America is not an option.

So here's the dilemma. I can specify a lamp designed by Chinese engineers working for a Chinese company and manufactured in a Chinese factory. Or I can specify a lamp designed by American engineers working for an American company and manufactured in a Chinese factory. (Or in the case of Osram/Sylvania, probably a lamp designed by American engineers working for a German company and manufactured in a Chinese factory.) If I specify an American brand, it's definitely not made in America, although it might be made in India or Vietnam or wherever else they can find dirt cheap but reasonably educated workers. But it's probably made in China.

For personal use I tend toward supporting the foreign company, all else being equal; at least it isn't screwing over its own people. I do try to find alternatives to Chinese manufacturing though, as many items are also made in Malaysia, Indonesia, Taiwan, South Korea, etc. But if we don't support the American corporations, we also lose the design jobs and eventually the company goes tits up or is simply taken over by a foreign competitor. Honestly, I think that is inevitable; the people designing the product typically don't last more than a decade or two once divorced from the manufacturing, as the manufacturer's engineers become the ones who understand the technology and take over first the design, then the innovation, then the market.

So which one is a better moral choice?

 

[woolfe9999]

How is it a moral choice, which lamp you choose? It's an economic one. Choose the best lamp for the price.

If what you're saying is that you want to look at the broader question, it's still an economic question, just a macroeconomic one. In theory, the American brand will keep at least some of the money in the US economy, and presumably this company does have employees in the U.S. right?

- wolf

 

[bfdd]

They can't be made here due to high cost of environmental regulations, not because it's to expensive to hire Americans to make them. Silly shit imo.

 

[Infohawk]

They can't be made here due to high cost of environmental regulations, not because it's to expensive to hire Americans to make them.

Do you have any evidence for that?

 

[spidey07]

Do you have any evidence for that?

I have no doubt he's correct. There are some pretty reactive metals and gasses in those.

As to OP - keep the profits in America with American company.

 

[Lithium381]

I'd buy whatever suits your need for the best price. If the chinese have a quality product out there for a better price than a comparable american product, I'm going to buy chinese. of course if it's cheap crap made in china compared to a quality product made here in america. i'm going to choose the american product...... micro economics

 

[GroundedSailor]

I would say go with the option that keeps the most money rolling in the US economy, whether it is in the employment, R&D, design, corporate structure, profits etc. Every dollar spent locally has a cumulative effect on the local economy.

..

 

[ccryder]

http://www.sylvania.com/AboutUs/Careers/Locations/ManchesterNewHampshire/


Made in USA. I drive by their Hillsboro, NH location on occasion.

 

[bfdd]

Do you have any evidence for that?

these things are generally filled with things like mercury. we have pretty strict regulations on the stuff whereas china is quite lax in comparison.

 

[Infohawk]

these things are generally filled with things like mercury. we have pretty strict regulations on the stuff whereas china is quite lax in comparison.

That's not evidence and doesn't even address the price of wages in both countries.

 

[GroundedSailor]

http://www.sylvania.com/AboutUs/Careers/Locations/ManchesterNewHampshire/


Made in USA. I drive by their Hillsboro, NH location on occasion.

Nice. I hope the OP goes with this.

..

 

[CanOWorms]

You can't expect the US to make every possible product.

 

[JTsyo]

OP do you own the business you're working for? If not do the owners hold the same ideals as you do for 'Made in the USA'? If not then you should base your decision on economic factors and what's good for your company. That would be the proper moral decision.

 

[MovingTarget]

OP do you own the business you're working for? If not do the owners hold the same ideals as you do for 'Made in the USA'? If not then you should base your decision on economic factors and what's good for your company. That would be the proper moral decision.

I hate to nitpick, but if your decision is purely based on economics then morality has nothing to do with it. Purely economic decisions are amoral.

I can only hope that his superiors (if he has any) hold those ideals.

 

[rudder]

Do you have any evidence for that?

http://www.pca.state.mn.us/index.ph...-in-minnesota/compact-fluorescent-lights.html

If there is this much concern over their disposal.. one has to wonder about the manufacturing by-products. I don't ever recall the fuss about throwing an incandescent light bulb in the trash.

 

[JTsyo]

I hate to nitpick, but if your decision is purely based on economics then morality has nothing to do with it. Purely economic decisions are amoral.

I can only hope that his superiors (if he has any) hold those ideals.

The moral decision is to pick the economical one instead of imposing his views on company policy. How if he could convince higher ups that 'Made in USA' is the right thing to do, then great. Or if he's the owner and wants to make this his policy.

 

[AMFMQAM]

Pity me, for I am a 9/11 truther who is off his meds.

 

[werepossum]

http://www.sylvania.com/AboutUs/Careers/Locations/ManchesterNewHampshire/


Made in USA. I drive by their Hillsboro, NH location on occasion.

Thanks! Looks like I was misinformed. That solves my problem of what to specify.

OP do you own the business you're working for? If not do the owners hold the same ideals as you do for 'Made in the USA'? If not then you should base your decision on economic factors and what's good for your company. That would be the proper moral decision.

I'm one of the owners, we all have largely the same beliefs on this issue, and I have near complete control over what I specify. However we are consulting engineers; our jobs are almost always open bid, often government/public money projects which have special rules, and what I will accept is controlled at least partially by those rules and then by the wishes of our clients. If the client prefers American-made products, then I write that into my specifications and accept only those. If the client prefers whatever is cheapest, then I specify American-made products, but accept any true equal. If the client prefers whatever is best for the application, then where possible I specify American-made products, but sometimes foreign-based companies have superior offerings that cannot in good conscience be ignored. As is proper, the people paying for it get to decide what is acceptable, as long as no laws are broken. And I evaluate proposed equals very strictly but fairly. You'd be surprised how many times I'm asked to accept something not even remotely an equal, like a thermoplastic incandescent emergency light in place of a die-cast LED model or, most recently, a strip light with a screw-on reflector in place of a 2"X4" linear architectural fixture with a light control louver. People never fail to amaze . . .