When is the BX form factor supposed to be released?

[dquan97]

I wonder if new motherboards/cases released in January 2005 will have the BX form factor instead of ATX. What about PCI Express?

 

[Lonyo]

PCI-Express is coming this year (2H04 I'd guess) - new cards (from ATi at least) are PCI-Express natively and the new Intel motherboards for LGA-775 will have PCI-Express support, so that'll be here soon.

Haven't heard much recently on BTX, but I'd guess more news as it comes. Anandtech did an article a while back, but I wouldn't look for it this side Christmas IMO.

 

[Special1Sauce]

PCI-Express looks interesting to say the least. Anywho I'd say third quarter maybe?

 

[jrphoenix]

I don't thik AMD will be switching to BTX or will they? This really sucks for those of us wanting to build / buy a new system.... wait wait wait. If we don't wait our motherboards won't support the right kind of RAM or the right slot for a video card... Heck, you can't even buy a case because they may all become obsolete in the coming months

 

[Davegod]

I got the impression AMD will be lagging behind Intel on BTX, DDR2 and (to a lesser extent) PCI-e. This is probably from reading the Inquirer though, but IMHO makes sense for AMD as all these things will take a while before they're actually a significant advantage over the incumbent tech yet will surely have big price tags attatched.

Letting Intel take up the costs/risks until this stuff becomes mainstream and is worth it on a price : performance when compared to current tech would make sense IMO. Wont be surprised if chipset manuf's start putting some PCI-e slots on mobo's for AMD chips though, maybe as a non-native solution.

/probably talking rubbish...

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: jrphoenix
I don't thik AMD will be switching to BTX or will they? This really sucks for those of us wanting to build / buy a new system.... wait wait wait. If we don't wait our motherboards won't support the right kind of RAM or the right slot for a video card... Heck, you can't even buy a case because they may all become obsolete in the coming months

Um, no. Your new video card will work fine.
Your new memory will work fine if they support it (the chips will support DDR2 very soon, mobos are another story), but no biggie--DDR2 isn't going to be worth it until mainstream parts are hitting or exceeding 800MHz*.
You can keep your old case and PSU.
You should only have to wait until later this year for PCI-E, at which point you're good for a few years.

* - Yes, that's 800 marketting MHz.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Davegod
I got the impression AMD will be lagging behind Intel on BTX, DDR2 and (to a lesser extent) PCI-e. This is probably from reading the Inquirer though, but IMHO makes sense for AMD as all these things will take a while before they're actually a significant advantage over the incumbent tech yet will surely have big price tags attatched.

Letting Intel take up the costs/risks until this stuff becomes mainstream and is worth it on a price : performance when compared to current tech would make sense IMO. Wont be surprised if chipset manuf's start putting some PCI-e slots on mobo's for AMD chips though, maybe as a non-native solution.

/probably talking rubbish...

AMD has made no firm plans as of yet to move to DDR2; with the on-die memory controller in the A64 chips, this will likely be a pretty big step, and I don't see them doing it until next year (probably the second generation of 90nm Socket939 chips, and probably a new line of Opterons as well at about the same time). That's total speculation, though. They *will* switch as some point, but nobody knows when.

As far as BTX and PCI-E, those are both up to the chipset/motherboard manufacturers. Since AMD makes neither, they have essentially no say in it, although their stance is that they don't really like BTX (probably just because Intel's supporting it). There is, however, theoretically nothing stopping someone from developing a BTX-sized AMD motherboard.

Intel makes both chipsets and motherboards, and are apparently moving over entirely to BTX ASAP. Their next-gen chipsets will support PCI-E, but I think VIA is supporting both. I'm not sure about NVIDIA's future plans, but the NForce3 prototype that AT reviewed had an AGP slot...

 

[jrphoenix]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: jrphoenix
I don't thik AMD will be switching to BTX or will they? This really sucks for those of us wanting to build / buy a new system.... wait wait wait. If we don't wait our motherboards won't support the right kind of RAM or the right slot for a video card... Heck, you can't even buy a case because they may all become obsolete in the coming months

Um, no. Your new video card will work fine.
Your new memory will work fine if they support it (the chips will support DDR2 very soon, mobos are another story), but no biggie--DDR2 isn't going to be worth it until mainstream parts are hitting or exceeding 800MHz*.
You can keep your old case and PSU.
You should only have to wait until later this year for PCI-E, at which point you're good for a few years.

* - Yes, that's 800 marketting MHz.

I'm just looking for a little future proofness (if that's a word?).... I know in technology everything changes quick. I am just bummed because there are so many new changes... those of us ready for an upgrade or overhauld are in a tough spot.

I am an AMD supporter so this isn't as big of a deal for me right now... but... If I buy a mobo that supports DDR and not DDR2, I may be obsolete by year end, if the price of DDR2 comes down enough and the speed goes up enough?

If I buy a mobo without PCI-E then I would be up the creek.... shouldn't have to wait to long for this though

The part that gets me the most is that AMD will not support BTX until 2005 (my guess)... So if I do an overhaul with a new case (building a new system soon).... I won't even be able to even use the same case

This is a bit frustrating because I can't wait until 2005 for all this new tech to come forward! It'll be OK... just a bit frustrating!:disgust:

 

[KristopherKubicki]

We already have cases for BTX, but no boards :-X oh well.

Kristopher

 

[Macro2]

So thanks to Intel, all our ATX cases will be obsolete in a year.

 

[jrphoenix]

Originally posted by: Macro2
So thanks to Intel, all our ATX cases will be obsolete in a year.

Yeah.... ahead with "innovation" that just costs us a lot of money. The main reason they need BTX is to cool their hot processors down a bit!

 

[stickybytes]

Can today's motherboards/video cards work in BTX form factor cases? If they could, then that would be a little more delightful considering everything seems to be going to be obselete in a matter of months.

 

[SneakyStuff]

Originally posted by: Macro2
So thanks to Intel, all our ATX cases will be obsolete in a year.

lol you must see things differently than I do. How will it make ATX obsolete? there will be PCI-express ATX motherboards, and ATX mobos have the same connectors as BTX. So other than the PSU, and different layout, I don't see why everyone is so worried about BTX, it's not like it's going to completely phase out ATX anytime soon. ATX is gonna be here as long as motherboards are made to fit it And eventually, BTX will quietly take center stage, and will remain there until they relase something else.... like CTX!

 

[Macro2]

I'm still looking at my nice Enlight AT cases and wishing i could get a decent mobo to fit them.

In a couple of years, you'll be saying the same thing about your nice ATX cases.

SO why didn'y intel just go from AT to BTX if BTX is so great?

To me this has a lot to do with Intels new line of toasters.

 

[KillaKilla]

Originally posted by: SneakyStuff

Originally posted by: Macro2
So thanks to Intel, all our ATX cases will be obsolete in a year.

lol you must see things differently than I do. How will it make ATX obsolete? there will be PCI-express ATX motherboards, and ATX mobos have the same connectors as BTX. So other than the PSU, and different layout, I don't see why everyone is so worried about BTX, it's not like it's going to completely phase out ATX anytime soon. ATX is gonna be here as long as motherboards are made to fit it And eventually, BTX will quietly take center stage, and will remain there until they relase something else.... like CTX!

Or the mac version:
iTX: fit different... (...ly into a case)


BTX has a new MB power connector? What more are they forcing onto motherboards!?

Also, I predict that BTX cases will support ATX motherboards if at all posible.

 

[Davegod]

strange thing is I really, really get the impression that BTX case design spec is all about cooling the cpu and little concern for anything else, except vid card because well they have to. But now people seem to be thinking the P5 will be sort-of based on the mobile chips?

BTX looks strange to me, doesnt look like it works with the natural airflow, fans are in and out at the middle; plus all the intake will be heated by the cpu - making cpu heat problems Somebody Elses (i.e. for other components to have to cope with). What I really dont like about BTX spec though is... 80mm fans. Asshats.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Davegod
strange thing is I really, really get the impression that BTX case design spec is all about cooling the cpu and little concern for anything else, except vid card because well they have to. But now people seem to be thinking the P5 will be sort-of based on the mobile chips?

BTX looks strange to me, doesnt look like it works with the natural airflow, fans are in and out at the middle; plus all the intake will be heated by the cpu - making cpu heat problems Somebody Elses (i.e. for other components to have to cope with). What I really dont like about BTX spec though is... 80mm fans. Asshats.

Yeah F them for the larger low rpm quiet fans! :roll:

 

[jrphoenix]

Originally posted by: SneakyStuff

Originally posted by: Macro2
So thanks to Intel, all our ATX cases will be obsolete in a year.

lol you must see things differently than I do. How will it make ATX obsolete? there will be PCI-express ATX motherboards, and ATX mobos have the same connectors as BTX. So other than the PSU, and different layout, I don't see why everyone is so worried about BTX, it's not like it's going to completely phase out ATX anytime soon. ATX is gonna be here as long as motherboards are made to fit it And eventually, BTX will quietly take center stage, and will remain there until they relase something else.... like CTX!

Check out anand's article on btx: link

Just in case you were told otherwise, the BTX form factor is largely incompatible with the ATX form factor - the only area where this doesn't fully apply is in power supply support, as you can use ATX power supplies with BTX motherboards (more on this later).

Fotunately he does say:

For those of you heavily invested in your ATX motherboard and AGP graphics card, there's no reason for panic. It will take quite a while before the death of ATX; and although we've done a lot to get rid of the "beige box" with the latest generation of ATX cases and the advent of small form factor systems, the final nail in the coffin of boring computers will be driven by BTX.

 

[Macro2]

On second look, it looks even more like a heat reducer for Intels Prescott toaster chips. I'd like to see some tests comparing heat generated by ATX vs BTX cases. Everything else being equal. No freaking cooling modules.


I wish mobo makers would refuse to make it. Then only outfits like Dell would have itsince they buy mobos mainly from Intel.

They would be accused of proprietary again.

 

[UlricT]

Originally posted by: KristopherKubicki
We already have cases for BTX, but no boards :-X oh well.

Kristopher

hey kris, what happened to your AT status? You seem to be in the same boat as me (senior Member)

 

[XBoxLPU]

Um you haven't noticed the forums are upgraded ???

 

[UlricT]

yeah... but did alll the AT staff lose their AT ____ man status?

 

[Dman877]

BTX just looks messy to me. They need to design cases/mobo's in such a way that air from outside the case is ducting straight to the cpu and gpu, and then ducted straight out of the case. A decent 120mm case fan and 80mm psu fan can adequatley cool everything else in the case. I know many of us already do this with a duct from the side straight to cpu heatsink. This just needs to be standardized, streamlined, and shouldn't require a thermal unit or whatever it was.

First thing I'd do if I was in charge is remove the back panel connectors from a mobo and install headers instead, then have some standardized i/o connection plates that can be installed in the front and in the back of cases or even put the responsibility on case manufacturers to include all the connectors (like they currently do for front panel stuff). Then by not having to align the mobo with the back of the case, a lot of flexibility is added allowing better positioning of the cpu/gpu for easier ductwork/cooling.

 

[Bassyhead]

Originally posted by: Macro2
On second look, it looks even more like a heat reducer for Intels Prescott toaster chips. I'd like to see some tests comparing heat generated by ATX vs BTX cases. Everything else being equal. No freaking cooling modules.


I wish mobo makers would refuse to make it. Then only outfits like Dell would have itsince they buy mobos mainly from Intel.

They would be accused of proprietary again.

i would like to see such tests, as well. would be interesting.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Dman877
BTX just looks messy to me. They need to design cases/mobo's in such a way that air from outside the case is ducting straight to the cpu and gpu, and then ducted straight out of the case.

That's basically what it does. Your idea is different...how?

A decent 120mm case fan and 80mm psu fan can adequatley cool everything else in the case. I know many of us already do this with a duct from the side straight to cpu heatsink. This just needs to be standardized, streamlined, and shouldn't require a thermal unit or whatever it was.

Why should it not require what you just said it should have? :roll:
The thermal module is just a defined space. It's much better than your duct from the side, since it is a closed duct. Air passes through and cools the CPU. Then it goes out of the back.

First thing I'd do if I was in charge is remove the back panel connectors from a mobo and install headers instead, then have some standardized i/o connection plates that can be installed in the front and in the back of cases

You haven't been using PCs that long, have you? While it was all in the back, that's basically how it was done with AT, and it sucked.

or even put the responsibility on case manufacturers to include all the connectors (like they currently do for front panel stuff).

They do? Funny, I've seen a lot of cases that don't.

Then by not having to align the mobo with the back of the case, a lot of flexibility is added allowing better positioning of the cpu/gpu for easier ductwork/cooling.

All you need to do for that is have another fan for the GPU + everything, which should be possible w/o changing the spec.
Remember: those sample models you've seen were almost all for SFF, or major OEMs, for whome cooling means it doesn't melt.
Also, the mobo must be aligned with the back of the case if you plan on having expansion cards in there.

...to top it all off, you can have your cake and eat it too (ATX case w/ open side for duct, and BTX case).
Text

I do think they should have separated the case into zones similar to the G5, but that would add cost to big OEMs, so not a popular idea among those who wield the $. Remember: , this, like most specs, is a physical spec, and outside of that, only represents absolute minimums.