When is it OK to point fingers

[dcaron]

Now is a bad time? OK, fair enough. So, when is a good time? Should we wait a month, 6 months, 1 year before we start asking hard questions and actually demanding answers?. In that time period the general public will have moved on to somthing else, and the politicians and descision makers will have 'forgotten' all the details about who was responsible for what.

I just fear that this will be just one more time where our dumbfounded leaders bungle everything up, but because of government bureaucracy and media spin, not a single person is held accountable.

Whatever your feelings are about our current leaders, I think its a fair question.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: dcaron
Now is a bad time? OK, fair enough. So, when is a good time? Should we wait a month, 6 months, 1 year before we start asking hard questions and actually demanding answers?. In that time period the general public will have moved on to somthing else, and the politicians and descision makers will have 'forgotten' all the details about who was responsible for what.

I just fear that this will be just one more time where our dumbfounded leaders bungle everything up, but because of government bureaucracy and media spin, not a single person is held accountable.

Whatever your feelings are about our current leaders, I think its a fair question.

It's never a good time to hold bush accountable, it seems.

 

[arsbanned]

The questions should be asked now and repeatedly util they are answered and a plan of action for actually dealing effectively with any sort of disaster is put into place. Then they can run drills until we have it right. What an embarassment. We look like idiots.

 

[DealMonkey]

I have lots of questions that have never been answered by this administration. It seems we have a new "teflon Willy" in office and he goes by "W" . . .

 

[Deudalus]

Originally posted by: dcaron
Now is a bad time? OK, fair enough. So, when is a good time? Should we wait a month, 6 months, 1 year before we start asking hard questions and actually demanding answers?. In that time period the general public will have moved on to somthing else, and the politicians and descision makers will have 'forgotten' all the details about who was responsible for what.

I just fear that this will be just one more time where our dumbfounded leaders bungle everything up, but because of government bureaucracy and media spin, not a single person is held accountable.

Whatever your feelings are about our current leaders, I think its a fair question.

I don't think we should be trying to pin blame until the rebuilding process begins, which won't be long really.

I'm from there and I have been complaining about people trying to pin blame already. I have no problem with people asking questions about why such a tragedy could happen.

What I have a problem with is people who have one tiny shred of evidence that they can twist, spin, and turn until it backs up their agenda to blame President Bush, Mayor Nagin, or Governor Blanco.

The fact is alot of questions need to be asked and answered at the proper time before we can start pointing fingers at people.

My biggest frustration though is that the hard left and hard right both can't wait for that proper time because then the public sentiment might die down and they won't be able to milk as much political turmoil out of this.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: arsbanned
The questions should be asked now and repeatedly util they are answered and a plan of action for actually dealing effectively with any sort of disaster is put into place. Then they can run drills until we have it right. What an embarassment. We look like idiots.

Exactly. I've said it before (in other threads) and I'll say it again: 4 years after 9/11/01 and we look like bumbling morons trying to deal with a natural disaster. Granted a big one, but definitely something foreseeable and one that can be planned for. DHS and this adminstration are not capable of dealing with a mass-casualty event, whether that's a terrorist attack or simply an attack by mother nature.

 

[glugglug]

The answer is quite simple. You need to give the administration time to destroy the evidence. Once the evidence is gone, then you can start.

 

[Busithoth]

when?
when a democrat is back in the white house.

I have a horrible feeling about a Katrina commission, a la 9-11 commission.
Bush would again refuse to swear an oath to not lie, and they'd 'discuss' things...

and it would end up being extremely polite to everyone, blaming FEMA but no policies that led FEMA to its current state, and people would be too bored to read it all, and scandal defanged.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Busithoth
when?
when a democrat is back in the white house.

I have a horrible feeling about a Katrina commission, a la 9-11 commission.
Bush would again refuse to swear an oath to not lie, and they'd 'discuss' things...

and it would end up being extremely polite to everyone, blaming FEMA but no policies that led FEMA to its current state, and people would be too bored to read it all, and scandal defanged.

Will the Katrinia commission be like the 9/11 commission. A Democratic attempt to ambush a fine President, with simultaneous closing of the briefcases when the mud starts to splash back from the fan blades onto Democrats and the truth only coming out years later?

 

[nageov3t]

if the Iraqi War has taught us anything, it's not until we've bestoyed honors and promotions on everyone responsible for screwing up.

only then... or maybe a few years later... can we begin the process of forgetting to hold people accountable.

 

[Conky]

No, I think we need to instantly declare failure. If a natural disaster happens and the federal government can't fix it in less than 24 hours we should simply start impeachment proceedings.

 

[BDawg]

The administration would prefer you wait until after 2008 to point fingers, but if you're in a hurry, wait until after 2006.

 

[PatboyX]

Originally posted by: dcaron
Now is a bad time? OK, fair enough. So, when is a good time? Should we wait a month, 6 months, 1 year before we start asking hard questions and actually demanding answers?. In that time period the general public will have moved on to somthing else, and the politicians and descision makers will have 'forgotten' all the details about who was responsible for what.

I just fear that this will be just one more time where our dumbfounded leaders bungle everything up, but because of government bureaucracy and media spin, not a single person is held accountable.

Whatever your feelings are about our current leaders, I think its a fair question.

you know, its not fair enough. if everyone had gotten off their ass right now and done something from day one, it might be fair enough. lets not kid ourselves and act like we cant talk about it because we should use our energy somewhere else. as though hannity is too busy personally feeding these people and bringing it up on that show (which is essentially what those shows are for and, in many ways, what this question is asking i think) is inappropriate.
the people that are saying that are most likely supporters of the administration. and while i recognize that blame isnt the most important thing right now, im too fed up anymore to care if the people who politically disargee with me are going to take some morally superior attitude about saving lives after the fact and when faced with honest to god concerns about the national interest.
this is about the exact same time the editorial writers of the country get all riled up and complain about stuff. first it was unamerican and unpatriotic; they were terrorist sympathizers. now...what? they are being petty? because in the grand scheme of things there are problems larger than blaming someone...yes, but when its your job to point fingers, dont take a vacation because there is a good f-ing reason to point fingers.

 

[JacobJ]

Accountability should be constant.

Never waver in demanding your government perform its duties.

 

[rcomo]

YEah, lets blame GW for this. Its federal LAW that the state and municipal governments handle all disaster relief for their state as well as coordination of all emergency response. A cat 5 hurricane bearing down on a city 25 feet below sea level? Lets not evacuate the entire city. Lets not call more than 2000 reservists beforehand, and lets not send them in directly afterward (A LA the orders of the governor of the state and the mayor of New Orleans), and then lets call Bush racist for following the law of the country.

Man that was really easy to asses blame, I love it.

 

[realsup]

When people stop accusing a Hurricane of bieng racist.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: dcaron
Now is a bad time? OK, fair enough. So, when is a good time? Should we wait a month, 6 months, 1 year before we start asking hard questions and actually demanding answers?. In that time period the general public will have moved on to somthing else, and the politicians and descision makers will have 'forgotten' all the details about who was responsible for what.

I just fear that this will be just one more time where our dumbfounded leaders bungle everything up, but because of government bureaucracy and media spin, not a single person is held accountable.

Whatever your feelings are about our current leaders, I think its a fair question.

Found this elsewhere:

"Don't criticize Chimpy BEFORE he screws up -- pushing massive tax cuts, ignoring counterterrorism warnings, banging war drums, vacationing during a storm -- because maybe it'll all work out fine, give it a chance, you don't have a crystal ball!"

"Don't criticize Chimpy DURING his screw ups, because now is not the time when we're in the middle of a crisis -- it doesn't help the people who are struggling, it undermines morale, it's divisive when we should all be pulling together!"

"Don't criticize Chimpy AFTER his screw ups, because we need to move on and get over it -- besides, it wasn't his fault, he didn't know, Democrats are just trying to politicize this, and we have other things to deal with right now."

The right constantly puts out the spin to defend this administration at every stage of the game while they go around pointing fingers of blame to everyone else. In their eyes, this administration is perfect, angelic, miraculously benevolent and righteous and wise.


: puke;

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: dcaron
Now is a bad time? OK, fair enough. So, when is a good time? Should we wait a month, 6 months, 1 year before we start asking hard questions and actually demanding answers?. In that time period the general public will have moved on to somthing else, and the politicians and descision makers will have 'forgotten' all the details about who was responsible for what.

I just fear that this will be just one more time where our dumbfounded leaders bungle everything up, but because of government bureaucracy and media spin, not a single person is held accountable.

Whatever your feelings are about our current leaders, I think its a fair question.

Found this elsewhere:

"Don't criticize Chimpy BEFORE he screws up -- pushing massive tax cuts, ignoring counterterrorism warnings, banging war drums, vacationing during a storm -- because maybe it'll all work out fine, give it a chance, you don't have a crystal ball!"

"Don't criticize Chimpy DURING his screw ups, because now is not the time when we're in the middle of a crisis -- it doesn't help the people who are struggling, it undermines morale, it's divisive when we should all be pulling together!"

"Don't criticize Chimpy AFTER his screw ups, because we need to move on and get over it -- besides, it wasn't his fault, he didn't know, Democrats are just trying to politicize this, and we have other things to deal with right now."

The right constantly puts out the spin to defend this administration at every stage of the game while they go around pointing fingers of blame to everyone else. In their eyes, this administration is perfect, angelic, miraculously benevolent and righteous and wise.


: puke;

It's almost like a natural defensive tactic, you know, a siege mentality. Hey they have enough to be defensive about without loons blaming them for being totally responsible for Katrina and the suffering that followed. Hell there are fscktards out there that are claiming that this administration purposely held back aid because the majority of the victims were black. Can you imagine what kind of moron would say that?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: dcaron
Now is a bad time? OK, fair enough. So, when is a good time? Should we wait a month, 6 months, 1 year before we start asking hard questions and actually demanding answers?. In that time period the general public will have moved on to somthing else, and the politicians and descision makers will have 'forgotten' all the details about who was responsible for what.

I just fear that this will be just one more time where our dumbfounded leaders bungle everything up, but because of government bureaucracy and media spin, not a single person is held accountable.

Whatever your feelings are about our current leaders, I think its a fair question.

Found this elsewhere:

"Don't criticize Chimpy BEFORE he screws up -- pushing massive tax cuts, ignoring counterterrorism warnings, banging war drums, vacationing during a storm -- because maybe it'll all work out fine, give it a chance, you don't have a crystal ball!"

"Don't criticize Chimpy DURING his screw ups, because now is not the time when we're in the middle of a crisis -- it doesn't help the people who are struggling, it undermines morale, it's divisive when we should all be pulling together!"

"Don't criticize Chimpy AFTER his screw ups, because we need to move on and get over it -- besides, it wasn't his fault, he didn't know, Democrats are just trying to politicize this, and we have other things to deal with right now."

The right constantly puts out the spin to defend this administration at every stage of the game while they go around pointing fingers of blame to everyone else. In their eyes, this administration is perfect, angelic, miraculously benevolent and righteous and wise.


: puke;

It's almost like a natural defensive tactic, you know, a siege mentality. Hey they have enough to be defensive about without loons blaming them for being totally responsible for Katrina and the suffering that followed. Hell there are fscktards out there that are claiming that this administration purposely held back aid because the majority of the victims were black. Can you imagine what kind of moron would say that?

Yes, there are loons on the left that engage in hyperbole. Some whack-jobs have even setup websites saying the Russians did this with some weather-modification weapon :roll:

But, their voices aren't being heard as loudly as the right-wing talking heads. Who is more known in this nation? Limbaugh/Hannity/Medved/etc. or Franken/Rhodes/etc.?

The former, by a long shot.


But, looking at what we know now, the blame for the lack of bringing in aid to those who were stranded (no matter how they got stranded) lies almost solely on the heads of the Feds.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: dcaron
Now is a bad time? OK, fair enough. So, when is a good time? Should we wait a month, 6 months, 1 year before we start asking hard questions and actually demanding answers?. In that time period the general public will have moved on to somthing else, and the politicians and descision makers will have 'forgotten' all the details about who was responsible for what.

I just fear that this will be just one more time where our dumbfounded leaders bungle everything up, but because of government bureaucracy and media spin, not a single person is held accountable.

Whatever your feelings are about our current leaders, I think its a fair question.

Found this elsewhere:

"Don't criticize Chimpy BEFORE he screws up -- pushing massive tax cuts, ignoring counterterrorism warnings, banging war drums, vacationing during a storm -- because maybe it'll all work out fine, give it a chance, you don't have a crystal ball!"

"Don't criticize Chimpy DURING his screw ups, because now is not the time when we're in the middle of a crisis -- it doesn't help the people who are struggling, it undermines morale, it's divisive when we should all be pulling together!"

"Don't criticize Chimpy AFTER his screw ups, because we need to move on and get over it -- besides, it wasn't his fault, he didn't know, Democrats are just trying to politicize this, and we have other things to deal with right now."

The right constantly puts out the spin to defend this administration at every stage of the game while they go around pointing fingers of blame to everyone else. In their eyes, this administration is perfect, angelic, miraculously benevolent and righteous and wise.


: puke;

It's almost like a natural defensive tactic, you know, a siege mentality. Hey they have enough to be defensive about without loons blaming them for being totally responsible for Katrina and the suffering that followed. Hell there are fscktards out there that are claiming that this administration purposely held back aid because the majority of the victims were black. Can you imagine what kind of moron would say that?

Yes, there are loons on the left that engage in hyperbole. Some whack-jobs have even setup websites saying the Russians did this with some weather-modification weapon :roll:

But, their voices aren't being heard as loudly as the right-wing talking heads. Who is more known in this nation? Limbaugh/Hannity/Medved/etc. or Franken/Rhodes/etc.?

The former, by a long shot.

Well in this case being more known as bags of hot gaseous nonsense isn't really a good thing. I guess if Franken was more well know people would realize that he's as much of an asshate as the Right Wing Parrots.

 

[conjur]

This is true but it's not the case with Franken. He's not that well-known. And, those millions who listen to the likes of Limbaugh DON'T think of him as a bag of hot gaseous nonsense. They praise and worship the drug addict. They let him do their thinking for them and it filters to other parts of our communities through these listeners attitudes and actions.

The bitterness between left and right is growing. In this latest cycle, the right started lobbing the first volleys with the demonization of the word "liberal". It's grown more and more and we've seen the results in the Terri Schiavo situation with the far-right, ultra-religious freaking out by the busloads outside the medical facility. The left is getting into action now, mostly out of protest re: Iraq and they are getting more and more vicious in their attacks.

BUT, NONE of that changes the facts of this situation and that is that the Gov. issued a state of emergency on Aug. 26 and requested military assistance on Aug. 28. Where was the help?

 

[conjur]

Plus, there's just the overall disconnection from reality at the Federal level:
http://www.canofun.com/blog/videos/poppyindividualsonroofs.wmv


And this isn't necessarily a Rep/Dem issue. If Clinton or Gore or Kerry were President and this happened, I'd be doing the same thing I'm doing now.

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: conjur

BUT, NONE of that changes Conjur's version of this situation and that is that the Gov. issued a state of emergency on Aug. 26 and requested military assistance on Aug. 28.

True.

 

[conjur]

Shouldn't you be in school learning your multiplication tables?

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: conjur
Shouldn't you be in school learning your multiplication tables?

Ahhh- so if you can't back things up with *facts*, you result to saying things like this. Such a shame.