When drafted.....will you choose Iraq or North Korea?

[poMONKey]

Originally posted by: EndGame

Originally posted by: TheEvil1
I can spell. Typing is my issue. That and i just dont give a sh!t what you think about my spelling. you obviously understoon what i was saying.

and IIRC in this country i have freedom of choice and i choose NOT to be in the army. End of story

Yeah, who gave you the oppertunity to enjoy all these freedoms and how was it acheived? Aside from that, I can understand you being to afraid or spoiled to be able to tolerate military life and as I said, and has been said frquently, the possibility of a draft is so remote that disscusing it is mute at this point. The military, all branches have all the manpower the need right now from men and women whom do feel like giving something back to the country which has given them and their families so much and, there will be, as there always is, the influx of thousands of men and women should a campaign begin. So no, you're not needed, it's just sad to hear from people like myself whom served, and especially for all those whom gave their lives in Vietnam, Korea, WWII, WWI, and so on. I was at my local VFW Post before X-Mas and talked with several older vetrans whom were discussing exactly this and one hit the nail right on the button, he said "none of todays kids have ever had to live through hard times or threats, everything they have is taken for granted. Most of them have no idea how hard things were and how it's like to do without and have most of the men in your family gone defending the very country we live in not knowing if they will ever return." I agree, it's been so long ago nowsince times have been REALLY hard or there has been a major conflict that most kids have no idea why those men and women gave their lives or how hard the people of this country worked and suffered to assure we would continue to have all that we have.

You do what you want, just try to remember what it took to give you all that you have!

:| you think because this world is a f*ckin mess, that killing is the answer????? war is the only solution, huh? what did we GET from Vietnam, Korea, WWII, WWI??? FREEDOM? your an idiot if you think anything close to that. IMO, 9/11 wouldnt have happened if this "great" country of ours had stayed the F*CK out of other countries business. we mess w/everybody, we are right there in the middle of all the BS, and people were "surprised" by 9/11????!!!! like it wouldnt happen here???!!! PAY ATTENTION IDIOTS!!! ever hear the expresion "those who live by the sword, die by the sword"???? HUH?

the kids today ( or any day ) should NEVER KNOW WAR... its a F*CKING LIE!!! ITS A F*CKING MACHINE you moron! AND YOU ARE THE FODDER...

 

[gotsmack]

Are you saying we shouldn't have been part of WW2?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: pomonkey

Originally posted by: EndGame

Originally posted by: TheEvil1
I can spell. Typing is my issue. That and i just dont give a sh!t what you think about my spelling. you obviously understoon what i was saying.

and IIRC in this country i have freedom of choice and i choose NOT to be in the army. End of story

Yeah, who gave you the oppertunity to enjoy all these freedoms and how was it acheived? Aside from that, I can understand you being to afraid or spoiled to be able to tolerate military life and as I said, and has been said frquently, the possibility of a draft is so remote that disscusing it is mute at this point. The military, all branches have all the manpower the need right now from men and women whom do feel like giving something back to the country which has given them and their families so much and, there will be, as there always is, the influx of thousands of men and women should a campaign begin. So no, you're not needed, it's just sad to hear from people like myself whom served, and especially for all those whom gave their lives in Vietnam, Korea, WWII, WWI, and so on. I was at my local VFW Post before X-Mas and talked with several older vetrans whom were discussing exactly this and one hit the nail right on the button, he said "none of todays kids have ever had to live through hard times or threats, everything they have is taken for granted. Most of them have no idea how hard things were and how it's like to do without and have most of the men in your family gone defending the very country we live in not knowing if they will ever return." I agree, it's been so long ago nowsince times have been REALLY hard or there has been a major conflict that most kids have no idea why those men and women gave their lives or how hard the people of this country worked and suffered to assure we would continue to have all that we have.

You do what you want, just try to remember what it took to give you all that you have!

:| you think because this world is a f*ckin mess, that killing is the answer????? war is the only solution, huh? what did we GET from Vietnam, Korea, WWII, WWI??? FREEDOM? your an idiot if you think anything close to that. IMO, 9/11 wouldnt have happened if this "great" country of ours had stayed the F*CK out of other countries business. we mess w/everybody, we are right there in the middle of all the BS, and people were "surprised" by 9/11????!!!! like it wouldnt happen here???!!! PAY ATTENTION IDIOTS!!! ever hear the expresion "those who live by the sword, die by the sword"???? HUH?

the kids today ( or any day ) should NEVER KNOW WAR... its a F*CKING LIE!!! ITS A F*CKING MACHINE you moron! AND YOU ARE THE FODDER...

We "stayed the fsck out of other countries business" to the bitter end before WWI and WWII. Had we stomped on Hitler the minute he broke the treaty of Versailles, litterally tens of millions of people would not have died. But no... we were too busy "staying the fsck out of othre countries business."

What you have failed to learn from history is that staying the fsck out only allowed despots with dreams of world domination the time and ability to amass huge armies and kill millions... not to mention become a direct threat to our freedoms.

Stop listening to peacnik propaganda and take an objective look at the causes, and ramifications of WWI, WWII and the cold war. If you don't think those conflicts were for freedom, you're either blind, or suffering from self inflicted stupidity.

It's fine to hate war and violence. It's not fine to bury your head in the sand and wait until the only solution will cost millions of lives, or your freedom.

 

[Gaard]

That's all good. However, I think a lot of people here are wrong when they lump together those who are anti-war and those who question the given reasons for going to war with Iraq. Contrary to what a lot of members believe, they aren't the same thing. If people here (I should say when people here) have taken to calling those who question the reasons and motives given derogatory names and assume what they think and believe, it doesn't do much to show how intelligent they are or do much to convince others of the validity of going to war.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Ylen13

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Where do I sign up to become a REMF?

what is remf?

The term "REMF" was often used by those who were out there "in the bush" in referring to those who remained in rearward positions in places of relative safety. It was not a term of respect or endearment. To put it bluntly, it was verbal shorthand for "rear echelon mutha f_ _ _ers."

Danger, this link has MIDI

 

[EndGame]

Originally posted by: pomonkey

Originally posted by: EndGame

Originally posted by: TheEvil1
I can spell. Typing is my issue. That and i just dont give a sh!t what you think about my spelling. you obviously understoon what i was saying.

and IIRC in this country i have freedom of choice and i choose NOT to be in the army. End of story

Yeah, who gave you the oppertunity to enjoy all these freedoms and how was it acheived? Aside from that, I can understand you being to afraid or spoiled to be able to tolerate military life and as I said, and has been said frquently, the possibility of a draft is so remote that disscusing it is mute at this point. The military, all branches have all the manpower the need right now from men and women whom do feel like giving something back to the country which has given them and their families so much and, there will be, as there always is, the influx of thousands of men and women should a campaign begin. So no, you're not needed, it's just sad to hear from people like myself whom served, and especially for all those whom gave their lives in Vietnam, Korea, WWII, WWI, and so on. I was at my local VFW Post before X-Mas and talked with several older vetrans whom were discussing exactly this and one hit the nail right on the button, he said "none of todays kids have ever had to live through hard times or threats, everything they have is taken for granted. Most of them have no idea how hard things were and how it's like to do without and have most of the men in your family gone defending the very country we live in not knowing if they will ever return." I agree, it's been so long ago nowsince times have been REALLY hard or there has been a major conflict that most kids have no idea why those men and women gave their lives or how hard the people of this country worked and suffered to assure we would continue to have all that we have.

You do what you want, just try to remember what it took to give you all that you have!

:| you think because this world is a f*ckin mess, that killing is the answer????? war is the only solution, huh? what did we GET from Vietnam, Korea, WWII, WWI??? FREEDOM? your an idiot if you think anything close to that. IMO, 9/11 wouldnt have happened if this "great" country of ours had stayed the F*CK out of other countries business. we mess w/everybody, we are right there in the middle of all the BS, and people were "surprised" by 9/11????!!!! like it wouldnt happen here???!!! PAY ATTENTION IDIOTS!!! ever hear the expresion "those who live by the sword, die by the sword"???? HUH?

the kids today ( or any day ) should NEVER KNOW WAR... its a F*CKING LIE!!! ITS A F*CKING MACHINE you moron! AND YOU ARE THE FODDER...

Hey, as I said before, I, nor anyone else can help the fact that you just can not grasp reallity! ROFLMAO.............never know war..................humans have fought since the beginning of time and ANYONE whom thinks this is going to change is a complete and utter moron. I'm in no way saying war is a good thing, but, it is a reallity and one that will continue to be so. The only questions are whether any particular country chooses to avert it until the last minute when it may be to late, or faces agressors head on before they begin.

What did we get from prior wars? How about the soverignty of our nation and our lifestyle! Go ahead, tell ANY vetran from WWII that his service and those whom died was a worthless, meaningless endeavor. You might find yourself getting your @ss kicked by a 70+ year old man!

As for "worlds police".......well, how about the UN and most other countries stop ASKING for our help and assistance then? As was stated above, the US entered most other conflicts only after the begging of other countries for our assistance.

Having said that, I don't know that going into Iraq is right, or even if it will occur. I believe if the evidence is found, it should happen. I was there in SA and Kuwait in '91 and while I did not personally confront any Iraqis, I do know several whom did and I can say this from what I know, I do not think the Iraqis will "fight to the death" as some have stated if we do go in. Most of them are the because the HAVE to be and if given a choice would and will not fight for Saddam. A month or two ago there was a news article that came across the wires which stated that Saddam had moved all but 7500 RNG troops away from Baghdad because he felt he could not trust them. The story was backed up by recently exiled Iraqi military personell. That being the case, if we do go in again, I doubt the scenario so many seem to think in here. I look for Saddam to flee in the first days of conflict and things to wane very quickly. Somewhere in this thread a comment was made that Saddam is Iraq's legally elected leader and that the people want him as such as does the military, well, considering the fact that there was only one name on the ballots and the citizens were FORCED to cast their votes for that one candidate, I don't quite see it that way! As for the military, their votes were automaticly counted as cast for Saddam without any balloting or anything.

Remember there are always two ways to look at everything. Perhaps I am hard line because I have a military background as does my father, and his before him. You can choose to see things as you wish, but I understand what the US is trying to do and happen to think it is a good way to go. You think differently which is fine, but, as I touched on above, humans understand respect and force when dialogue fails. This stance did not start neccessarily with President Bush, he just expanded upon it. Clinton had the paperwork drawn for a conflict with NK in '94, and Iraq a second time in '98, in those instances, dialog averted the further action, it may still in these also, they are simply taking a tougher stance and drawing a proverbial line in the sand which if crossed will lead to further action.

 

[Mill]

I figured this would turn into Ad-Hominem attacks like much of AT threads do these days. Yes I said the military never seemed what I wanted to do. I searched for the statement and could not find it until Gaard pointed it out. It certainly does not make me a hypocrite because I never suggested to anyone at anytime in this thread that they should joiner the military. All I ever stated was that if I were to be drafted I would go and those that didn't were pansies. Then people like BarneyFife who refuse to debate my points come in here to attack me and say that I am hypocritical by taking my words out of context and posting them here as a challenge.

Here is my answer to your challenge. I am quite happy right now with what I am doing in my life. I am a Criminal Justice major with a Chemistry minor and I hope to get hired into Federal, State, or Local Law Enforcement once I graduate. The military is NOT what I want to do with my life. I have not, however, ever stated that it WAS something that I wanted to do. I merely said I would fight if drafted and those than ran away to another country do not deserve to be let back in and they should be prosecuted for draft dodging. All of this however is a moot point because there will be no draft regardless of whether we go to war with Iraq and/or North Korea.

Simply put I expected to get attacked instead of someone trying to debate why it was OK to draft dodge. No one even replied to a bulk of my posts except for Gaard.


gotsmack- The only reason I "insulted" you is because you thought it to be funny that you would be able to avoid the draft because you work for the DoD. That isn't funny to me at all. I would never want 18 year old Johhny from Butte, Montana to fill my place because I was a pathetic person. Sorry but if you think it is funny that you miss the draft then you have a lot of growing up to do.

BarneyFife-Read my replies above. See if you can debate my arguments instead of me.

Gaard- The name calling has come from both sides and that includes me.

 

[gotsmack]

I do get some kick out of not having to serve as infantry, its a perquisite that comes with the job. Just because someone is not infantry does not mean that they are not helping.

In the grand scheme of things, I play a support role.

The way I see it, I'm already in and you are not. So that puts me ahead of you.

and someone has to put in the purchase orders for <fill in any piece of equiptment here>

 

[mindless1]

My grandfather served in the military most of his adult life. My father also served, as did I. I don't seek to persuade or "out-argue" anyone, it's a waste of time. I only wish to express an opinion about military service, draft-dodging, civic duty.

Do not join the military to "serve your country". Join the military to defend your way of life and preserve freedom as much as possible. If you feel that your country's military campaign isn't acting to defend your way of life or preserve freedom, it would be quite understandable to choose to be a draft-dodger, perhaps draft-dodging would then be the only moral choice a person could make.

Do not be quick to go to war. I'm not philosophically against war, certainly it can be necessary as a last resort. However, the US, Iraq, N Korea... we're all the same, living on different ground, different cultures and power struggles, but underneath it all, we're all just people. The evolution of our human rights ("our" meaning all people, not just US Citizens) DEPENDS on supporting only those endeavors that have a positive effect in the long-term. Do not blindly trust and follow your leaders... be a thinking person, educate yourself, and decide if your support is constructive or destructive to all that you hold dear. But above all, SPEAK UP. DO NOT use your "voice" only in a forum like this, where it does little to no good in effecting any change. If you love your country, let it be your civil duty to actively support *whatever* you feel needs be done.

 

[gotsmack]

back in the days of the civil war you could pay someone to take your place in the army.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy

Originally posted by: gigapet
i admit it, some day i wake up and I am not that proud to be an american.....sometimes i am embarassed.

Screw you! I earned my right to be an American and I have never been embarassed....except by pussies like you.

godbless you sir! Sorry you got suckered into believing the lie.

And I am even sorrier that you and others have been raised and educated to believe that your own lives are too precious to be lost in the defense of your country.

or am I over educated cuz I dont believe the bullshit propaganda. Give me a decent reason to fight then we'll talk, bush oil interest in iraq is not a reason thats for fvcking sure.

Now i am a mere swede but even i know that overeducated is one word... so... yes, you are to dumb to understand and dumb enough to believe the propaganda...

and yes brightlight, it's about the oil... duhhhhhh...

are you my 4th grade grammar teacher?? Fvck off Swede. Actually I like swedes i take that back but this wasnt a formal paper i was handing in, i did not proof read or spell check.....so suck it!

Actually, if you would have payed attention, you would see that it was not your spelling but your understanding i challenged...
Oh, and as you you call me a pussy, i believe you will join the army, like right this fvcking minute you pussy? or maybe you were there as a member when the US started bombing bosnia, i was, so fvck you you...

Doesn't it suck that i have been into heavier battles than you mighty american weakling?

 

[oslama]

I would go to N.Korea and ride the first nuke that they drop on you bastards

 

[Miramonti]

/edit...darn i didn't see the extra 2 pages!

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: Amused

'91 has proven that the majority of soldiers and citizens in Iraq will not give their lives for Saddam. I see no reason to believe that has changed.

Sure, it will take a bit longer because there is a bit more ground to cover, and more mopping up to do, but their resolve will not be any better now, than it was then. In fact, I predict it is weaker.

In '91 you mostly faced just reservists. In Medina Ridge there were Republican Guards present (and they lost because M1's are superior at longer ranges. Their T-72's really couldn't harm M1's at that range, while M1 could kill their tanks). According to the US forces who fought there, the Guards were positioned perfectly in hull-down positions, they were under complete control of their commanders, they kept on fighting even though their comrades were being killed all around them and they did not run away.

Why do you say that "their resolve will be weaker", when in your last war you didn't really even face their best units (except in one battle)? You faced sub-standard reservists. If you have a full-blown war with Iraq, you will have urban fighting and you will be fighting the Guards alot more than you did in '91.

 

[chuckieland]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Originally posted by: Amused

'91 has proven that the majority of soldiers and citizens in Iraq will not give their lives for Saddam. I see no reason to believe that has changed.

Sure, it will take a bit longer because there is a bit more ground to cover, and more mopping up to do, but their resolve will not be any better now, than it was then. In fact, I predict it is weaker.

In '91 you mostly faced just reservists. In Medina Ridge there were Republican Guards present (and they lost because M1's are superior at longer ranges. Their T-72's really couldn't harm M1's at that range, while M1 could kill their tanks). According to the US forces who fought there, the Guards were positioned perfectly in hull-down positions, they were under complete control of their commanders, they kept on fighting even though their comrades were being killed all around them and they did not run away.

Why do you say that "their resolve will be weaker", when in your last war you didn't really even face their best units (except in one battle)? You faced sub-standard reservists. If you have a full-blown war with Iraq, you will have urban fighting and you will be fighting the Guards alot more than you did in '91.

come on, even with iraq's best guard, it's won't change anything
those best guard can't even beat iran, which is consider weaker then U.S.A force
now you are thinking iraq best guard can beat the U.S.A force
get a life, iraq's best guard may put out a good fight, or they may not.
It doesn't matter, unless iraq suck entire middle east and all muslem country into war with U.S.A. they don't stand a chance
By the way, one of the main reason U.S.A sent M1 tank into battle against iraq's T-72 is because U.S KNOW M1 can shoot range is longer then iraq's T-72
the best way to fight a war is beating up the opposite force at the place, where they can't touch you.
i

 

[oslama]

Americans dont know how to fight. Everytime they run into formidable resistance, they call in an airstrike and send in troops to clean-up afterwards.

US soldiers are a bunch of pussy. They are more relient on technology than on old-fashioned fighting incstints.

Vietnam was a real war.

 

[SlowSS]

Originally posted by: oslama
Americans dont know how to fight. Everytime they run into formidable resistance, they call in an airstrike and send in troops to clean-up afterwards.

US soldiers are a bunch of pussy. They are more relient on technology than on old-fashioned fighting incstints.

Vietnam was a real war.

And you are an idiot.

Even in vietnam, airstrike was constantly utilized. And why not, it is an effective tool to take out enemy.

Why the hell should we fight in an old-fashion way? Our technology enable us to fight smarter.

For you to enjoy american way of life in Kansas and say americans soldiers are pussies is hypocritical and assine.

If you don't like it, go back to your damn piss poor country that you came from retard.

Yeah, I take offense to your stupidity as an US Navy veteran.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: oslama
Americans dont know how to fight. Everytime they run into formidable resistance, they call in an airstrike and send in troops to clean-up afterwards.

US soldiers are a bunch of pussy. They are more relient on technology than on old-fashioned fighting incstints.

Vietnam was a real war.

What are your opinions on the terrorists like the palestinian ones that blow up bombs on buses or restaurants to try and kill civilians? What is your opinion on the people that hijacked airplanes to crash them into buildings?

Are they your heroes?
?

 

[chrisjor]

Originally posted by: oslama
Americans dont know how to fight. Everytime they run into formidable resistance, they call in an airstrike and send in troops to clean-up afterwards.

US soldiers are a bunch of pussy. They are more relient on technology than on old-fashioned fighting incstints.

Vietnam was a real war.

Alright boys...lets put down those guns and use some rocks!!! Amazingly stupid...that is why these people still live in caves.

It would seem to me that flying aircraft at office buildings is using technology to your advantage, why didn't they stand on the street throwing rocks at the Trade Center? How Noble.


Damn, etech...beat me to it!!

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: chuckielandnow you are thinking iraq best guard can beat the U.S.A force

Please provide a quote where I said that the Guards will be able to defeat US forces. I'm waiting.... What I in reality said was that the Guards are alot better troops than the regurals, as demonstrated by their actions in Medina Ridge. Please, learn to read OK?

get a life, iraq's best guard may put out a good fight, or they may not.

"Get a life" ? Why? Because I dare to say that "You know, the guards are better than regural Iraqi troops and you didn't really face them in '91". The Guards ARE better than regurals. And no, I did not say that they will beat US forces, I merely suggested that they will propably put up more of a fight than the Iraqi reservists did in '91. Please, don't put words in my mouth.

By the way, one of the main reason U.S.A sent M1 tank into battle against iraq's T-72 is because U.S KNOW M1 can shoot range is longer then iraq's T-72
the best way to fight a war is beating up the opposite force at the place, where they can't touch you.i

The main reason they sent M1's in to Gulf was because M1 is the Main Battle Tank of US Army! Had Iraq been equipped with obsolete T-34's, they would have still sent in M1's.