When does "Thou shall not kill" apply?

[Kerouactivist]

It apparently applies to the womb of a woman...but, not so much in other cases....

Civilians in wars we fight some of which are friggen children......
Convicted murders...
Americans we send to fight in wars...some of which inevitably will die
Armies/combatants of wars that we fight against.....with no real logial self-defense claim...other than we shot at them and they shot back and we killed them in self defense.


How are christians so vehemently opposed to the the so-called killed in the womb but, yet some seem to ardently support of the other.....

This is presupposing that abortion is murder which in my opinion is not true..

Shouldn't christians be something a little closer to pacifists?
Is it just an outta sight outta mind thing?
Maybe I'm wrong but, I'd like to know why...

 

[RedCOMET]

Double standard or hypocrisy ? who knows.
Maybe this shows how much value we place on life depending on the situation.

 

[Strk]

When there is no diversity in the world.

 

[Kerouactivist]

Originally posted by: Strk
When there is no diversity in the world.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - G. B. Shaw

 

[shortylickens]

In short, the big 10 are the reason I am not religous.

Its always OK when the church says you can.

 

[shrumpage]

where do you get "thou shalt not kill?"


the 10 commendaments it is "thou shalt not murder"

 

[Kerouactivist]

Originally posted by: shrumpage
where do you get "thou shalt not kill?"


the 10 commendaments it is "thou shalt not murder"

depends on your version...another disparity

 

[shrumpage]

There is a difference between kill and murder - the King James translates as kill - most others have it as murder. If you look at the orginal hebrew word "ratsach" (as in "thou shalt not ratsach") - it means more then just 'kill.' Plus you take into account for the Hebrew God having his people wipe out other nations, after laying down the 10 commandments - it doesn't appear to be a prohibation on 'killing.'


http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/7/1119937900-5971.html - more info on the context of the hebrew word "ratsach."

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: shrumpage
There is a difference between kill and murder - the King James translates as kill - most others have it as murder. If you look at the orginal hebrew word "ratsach" (as in "thou shalt not ratsach") - it means more then just 'kill.' Plus you take into account for the Hebrew God having his people wipe out other nations, after laying down the 10 commandments - it doesn't appear to be a prohibation on 'killing.'


http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/7/1119937900-5971.html - more info on the context of the hebrew word "ratsach."

I think I missed that one in Hebrew School.

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: shrumpage
There is a difference between kill and murder - the King James translates as kill - most others have it as murder. If you look at the orginal hebrew word "ratsach" (as in "thou shalt not ratsach") - it means more then just 'kill.' Plus you take into account for the Hebrew God having his people wipe out other nations, after laying down the 10 commandments - it doesn't appear to be a prohibation on 'killing.'


http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/7/1119937900-5971.html - more info on the context of the hebrew word "ratsach."

I think I missed that one in Hebrew School.

remeber Jericho?

 

[Kerouactivist]

Originally posted by: shrumpage
There is a difference between kill and murder - the King James translates as kill - most others have it as murder. If you look at the orginal hebrew word "ratsach" (as in "thou shalt not ratsach") - it means more then just 'kill.' Plus you take into account for the Hebrew God having his people wipe out other nations, after laying down the 10 commandments - it doesn't appear to be a prohibation on 'killing.'


http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/7/1119937900-5971.html - more info on the context of the hebrew word "ratsach."

okay so what is the definition of murder in your spooky language?
Basically wtf is your point?

 

[krcat1]

It mean unlawful killing, not killing in general.

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: shrumpageRemeber Jericho?

Specifically they wiped out basicly every man, woman, and child in the city rather promptly after entering Israel.

6:21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

http://www.cforc.com/kjv/Joshua/index.html

A further quotation from the book of Joshua:

8:21
And when Joshua and all Israel saw that the ambush had taken the city, and that the smoke of the city ascended, then they turned again, and slew the men of Ai.
8:22
And the other issued out of the city against them; so they were in the midst of Israel, some on this side, and some on that side: and they smote them, so that they let none of them remain or escape.
8:23
And the king of Ai they took alive, and brought him to Joshua.
8:24
And it came to pass, when Israel had made an end of slaying all the inhabitants of Ai in the field, in the wilderness wherein they chased them, and when they were all fallen on the edge of the sword, until they were consumed, that all the Israelites returned unto Ai, and smote it with the edge of the sword.
8:25
And so it was, that all that fell that day, both of men and women, were twelve thousand, even all the men of Ai.
8:26
For Joshua drew not his hand back, wherewith he stretched out the spear, until he had utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai.

http://www.cforc.com/kjv/Joshua/index.html

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: bthorny
okay so what is the definition of murder in your spooky language?
Basically wtf is your point?

God is really just fine with killing in plenty of circumstances in at least the Old Testament, its only unlawful killings which there is a prohibition against.

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: bthorny

Originally posted by: shrumpage
There is a difference between kill and murder - the King James translates as kill - most others have it as murder. If you look at the orginal hebrew word "ratsach" (as in "thou shalt not ratsach") - it means more then just 'kill.' Plus you take into account for the Hebrew God having his people wipe out other nations, after laying down the 10 commandments - it doesn't appear to be a prohibation on 'killing.'


http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/7/1119937900-5971.html - more info on the context of the hebrew word "ratsach."

okay so what is the definition of murder in your spooky language?
Basically wtf is your point?

um that "spooky" language is the orginal hebrew - from which the Old Testment is translated.

Words don't always translate nicely from one language to another. You look at the orginal hebrew word taht is used in place of kill or murder in the context of "thos shalt not ____" you find that murder is more acurate. For more evidence that killing was not prohibted, look at the direction given by God to the Isrealites at that time.


My point is: your premise is based on the wrong assumption, and that assumption that the intentional death, or killing of any creature, is prohibited by the 10 commandements.

 

[Kerouactivist]

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: bthorny

Originally posted by: shrumpage
There is a difference between kill and murder - the King James translates as kill - most others have it as murder. If you look at the orginal hebrew word "ratsach" (as in "thou shalt not ratsach") - it means more then just 'kill.' Plus you take into account for the Hebrew God having his people wipe out other nations, after laying down the 10 commandments - it doesn't appear to be a prohibation on 'killing.'


http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/7/1119937900-5971.html - more info on the context of the hebrew word "ratsach."

okay so what is the definition of murder in your spooky language?
Basically wtf is your point?

um that "spooky" language is the orginal hebrew - from which the Old Testment is translated.

Words don't always translate nicely from one language to another. You look at the orginal hebrew word taht is used in place of kill or murder in the context of "thos shalt not ____" you find that murder is more acurate. For more evidence that killing was not prohibted, look at the direction given by God to the Isrealites at that time.


My point is: your premise is based on the wrong assumption, and that assumption that the intentional death, or killing of any creature, is prohibited by the 10 commandements.

So can I presume that the bible then according to your translation doesn't say killing is wrong?

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: bthorny

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: bthorny

Originally posted by: shrumpage
There is a difference between kill and murder - the King James translates as kill - most others have it as murder. If you look at the orginal hebrew word "ratsach" (as in "thou shalt not ratsach") - it means more then just 'kill.' Plus you take into account for the Hebrew God having his people wipe out other nations, after laying down the 10 commandments - it doesn't appear to be a prohibation on 'killing.'


http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/7/1119937900-5971.html - more info on the context of the hebrew word "ratsach."

okay so what is the definition of murder in your spooky language?
Basically wtf is your point?

um that "spooky" language is the orginal hebrew - from which the Old Testment is translated.

Words don't always translate nicely from one language to another. You look at the orginal hebrew word taht is used in place of kill or murder in the context of "thos shalt not ____" you find that murder is more acurate. For more evidence that killing was not prohibted, look at the direction given by God to the Isrealites at that time.


My point is: your premise is based on the wrong assumption, and that assumption that the intentional death, or killing of any creature, is prohibited by the 10 commandements.

So can I presume that the bible then according to your translation doesn't say killing is wrong?

no - its not according to "my translation." Do some research, your at a computer, shouldn't be to hard.

 

[Kerouactivist]

your saying it's murder that's obvious.....What does that mean?

 

[realsup]

Originally posted by: bthorny

Originally posted by: shrumpage
There is a difference between kill and murder - the King James translates as kill - most others have it as murder. If you look at the orginal hebrew word "ratsach" (as in "thou shalt not ratsach") - it means more then just 'kill.' Plus you take into account for the Hebrew God having his people wipe out other nations, after laying down the 10 commandments - it doesn't appear to be a prohibation on 'killing.'


http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/7/1119937900-5971.html - more info on the context of the hebrew word "ratsach."

okay so what is the definition of murder in your spooky language?
Basically wtf is your point?

So the Jews have a spooky language?

What a bigot you are

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: RedCOMET
Double standard or hypocrisy ? who knows.
Maybe this shows how much value we place on life depending on the situation.

Exactly. Take a typical liberal for example. They'd prefer to see a convicted murderer stay alive (death penalty) than an innocent baby (abortion).

 

[Kerouactivist]

Originally posted by: realsup

Originally posted by: bthorny

Originally posted by: shrumpage
There is a difference between kill and murder - the King James translates as kill - most others have it as murder. If you look at the orginal hebrew word "ratsach" (as in "thou shalt not ratsach") - it means more then just 'kill.' Plus you take into account for the Hebrew God having his people wipe out other nations, after laying down the 10 commandments - it doesn't appear to be a prohibation on 'killing.'


http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/7/1119937900-5971.html - more info on the context of the hebrew word "ratsach."

okay so what is the definition of murder in your spooky language?
Basically wtf is your point?

So the Jews have a spooky language?

What a bigot you are

Gloria Macapagal Arroyo Quotes

There is no calling in life nobler than to serve the people of one's nation in pursuit of the Jeffersonian ideal of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." I, for one, feel privileged every day, every single day to be able to serve the people of the Philippines and to be associated with democrats like you from all over the world.
Gloria Macapagal Arroyo

apprently thou shall kill the op is still protected I assume

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Aegeon

Originally posted by: shrumpageRemeber Jericho?

Specifically they wiped out basicly every man, woman, and child in the city rather promptly after entering Israel.

6:21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

http://www.cforc.com/kjv/Joshua/index.html

A further quotation from the book of Joshua:

8:21
And when Joshua and all Israel saw that the ambush had taken the city, and that the smoke of the city ascended, then they turned again, and slew the men of Ai.
8:22
And the other issued out of the city against them; so they were in the midst of Israel, some on this side, and some on that side: and they smote them, so that they let none of them remain or escape.
8:23
And the king of Ai they took alive, and brought him to Joshua.
8:24
And it came to pass, when Israel had made an end of slaying all the inhabitants of Ai in the field, in the wilderness wherein they chased them, and when they were all fallen on the edge of the sword, until they were consumed, that all the Israelites returned unto Ai, and smote it with the edge of the sword.
8:25
And so it was, that all that fell that day, both of men and women, were twelve thousand, even all the men of Ai.
8:26
For Joshua drew not his hand back, wherewith he stretched out the spear, until he had utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai.

http://www.cforc.com/kjv/Joshua/index.html

^^^^^^^That is why I consider followers of the Old Testament to be violent peoples... and what do the Jewish peoples follow?

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: dahunan
and what do the Jewish peoples follow?

Generally they follow the Talmud which heavily interprets the Torah or "Old Testament" rather than anything resembling a literalist interpretation. Reform Judaism generally opposses blindly following Talmudic Law, or simply accepting what is in the Torah, and generally advocates considering Jewish Law within a modern context.

 

[Kerouactivist]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: RedCOMET
Double standard or hypocrisy ? who knows.
Maybe this shows how much value we place on life depending on the situation.

Exactly. Take a typical liberal for example. They'd prefer to see a convicted murderer stay alive (death penalty) than an innocent baby (abortion).

ohh noes the woman's right to do with her body as she would decide......maybe we should take away their right to vote too...just to be sure that they get the point right....

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Aegeon

Originally posted by: dahunan
and what do the Jewish peoples follow?

Generally they follow the Talmud which heavily interprets the Torah or "Old Testament" rather than anything resembling a literalist interpretation. Reform Judaism generally opposses blindly following Talmudic Law, or simply accepting what is in the Torah, and generally advocates considering Jewish Law within a modern context.

and they don't believe in The Prince of PEACE either... right? Why else would they choose not to follow the kinder gentler version of the bible called The New Testament