When do you think we will see HDMI 2.1 and the AV1 codec implemented into dGPUs?

[cbn]

1.) When do you think we will see HDMI 2.1 (announced January 2017) implemented into dGPUs?

According to Wikipedia HDMI 2.0 was released September 2013 and we saw the first Nvidia cards (high end Maxwell 2) in September 2014.

So assuming HDMI 2.1 gets released Q2 2017 (as stated in the announcement Article link) should we expect it Q2 2018?

Bonus Question: How soon do you think we will see HDMI 2.1 on Monitors? On TVs?



2.) When do you think we will see the AV1 codec implemented into dGPUs?

According to Wikipedia (link here):

The bitstream format is projected to be frozen in Q3 or Q4 of 2017. The first compatible hardware components are expected to become available within 12 months after that.

Mobile parts first? Or do you think dGPU could get them around the same time?

 

[Carfax83]

I don't know about HDMI 2.1, but for AV1, I would expect hardware support for it about 12 months after finalization, and probably partial support for it within a few months after it debuts from a driver update. By partial support, I mean that it will be like how Maxwell 2 had hybrid support for H.265.

 

[cbn]

According to this article from 2016, the bistream for VP9 was frozen June 2013:

Recounting YouTube’s experience with VP9, Matt Frost said, “With VP9, we froze the bitstream in June 2013, and were streaming VP9 from YouTube in August or September of that year.”

.....and we saw the first Nvidia cards (high end Maxwell 2) with full VP9 in hardware in September 2014 (so ~15 months later).

So it looks like dGPUs (at least the high end ones) should get AV1 fairly quickly.

EDIT: Nvgpu pointed out in post #8 that GM206 was the first Maxwell 2 card to get full VP9 decode (so in this case it was ~19 months after the bitstream was frozen).

P.S. Will be interesting to see how much CPU will be needed for AV1 software decode.

 

[imported_bman]

P.S. Will be interesting to see how much CPU will be needed for AV1 software decode.

You can already try out the AV1 codec using Elecard MPEG Player, they have sample video on their site as well https://www.elecard.com/videos. The 1080p samples run without dropping frames at ~65% CPU utilization on my Core M3-6Y30 laptop.

 

[cbn]

and probably partial support for it within a few months after it debuts from a driver update. By partial support, I mean that it will be like how Maxwell 2 had hybrid support for H.265.

This article is also mentioning partial AV1 support should come as it did for VP9.

however if everything lines up, we may even see partial hardware acceleration backported to some already existing hardware, like what happened with VP9, which would be a huge boost for compatibility.

Although yesterday when I was testing 1080p 60 FPS (ie, VP9) youtube videos I noticed my GT 730 GDDR5 (GK 208) wasn't able to hybrid decode.

So at least with Nvidia it appears VP9 was all or nothing (ie, Maxwell 2 with full VP9 and Kepler with zero VP9), unlike H.265 which had partial support.

 

[Carfax83]

I think that AV1 will have much better software decoding compared to VP9 initially, which is pretty important because most people will form their first impressions on AV1 based on software encoding/decoding . Google's VP9 software decoder, libvpx was pretty damn awful. But ffvp9 is really good, and shows what a properly optimized software decoder can do.

In fact, I just downloaded Firefox to try out ffvp9, and I was surprised at how much better it is compared to Chrome's libvpx when it comes to decoding 4K 60FPS videos on YouTube.

 

[nathanddrews]

Xbone Scorpio (this Fall) is already confirmed for FreeSync 2 over HDMI 2.1, so adding it to GCN chips already in mass production is apparently "no big deal". As to when we'll see it on GPUs? Despite the total lack of DP 1.3/1.4 displays until just very recently, both Polaris and Pascal launched with support for it, so it's very likely that we'll see HDMI 2.1 on Vega and no reason to think Volta will get left behind.

Microsoft already stated that they are working on AV1 4K playback for Xbone, so I would assume that many VP9-compatible devices may only need software updates.

 

[nvgpu]

https://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-video-codec-sdk

Maxwell 2 GM200/GM204 does not have VP9 hardware decoding, only GM206 with the newer Feature Set F hardware decoder has VP9 8bit hardware decoding.

My guess is Post Volta GPU family will be the first top to bottom GPU family with AV1 hardware decoding since the AV1 bitstream won't be finalized until Q4 2017. GV107 might or might not have AV1 hardware decoding because Nvidia has always upgraded the hardware decoder with newer versions in the smallest GPU in the family, GT 520 (Feature Set D), GTX 750 Ti(Feature Set E), GM206(Feature Set F) since Nvidia can swap in newer hardware decoders.

 

[Carfax83]

Microsoft already stated that they are working on AV1 4K playback for Xbone, so I would assume that many VP9-compatible devices may only need software updates.

Was it ever verified that Polaris has a full VP9 decoder? I remember there being some speculation that it didn't. Though that's not to say that Microsoft couldn't use their own custom decoder. It will be interesting to see the extent to which AV1 is similar or dissimilar to VP9. I think most of the code for AV1 is going to come from Google's VP10 which was previously cancelled.

 

[nathanddrews]

Was it ever verified that Polaris has a full VP9 decoder? I remember there being some speculation that it didn't. Though that's not to say that Microsoft couldn't use their own custom decoder. It will be interesting to see the extent to which AV1 is similar or dissimilar to VP9. I think most of the code for AV1 is going to come from Google's VP10 which was previously cancelled.

They certainly have the resources. Afterall, Microsoft managed to get compliance for 4K Amazon/Netflix and UHD Blu-ray with HDR and HDCP 2.2 running on the Xbone (Jaguar/GCN) despite the PC space "requiring" Kaby Lake, PlayReady 3.0, 3GB VRAM, 2.2 Display Chain, 4K display, etc. I don't think there's any real hardware deficiency at play here, it's all legal/software.

Pretty sure Polaris does VP9 4K60 alongside HLG HDR at the hardware level, but I don't own one to test. The AMD ReLive December update supposedly enabled VP9 4K60 decode for "all GCN" cards - I assume that it's a hybrid mode to varying extents for Fiji and previous GPUs (could also explain how Xbone does VP9).

As long as we're going with all these assumptions, it seems to me that in recent years AMD and NVIDIA have managed to find a greater measure of programmability with decode/encode engines as well as display ports. For example, Maxwell v1 came with "HDMI 2.0 capable" ports even though they were not greatly advertised as such or necessarily certified when the hardware launched, but it later turned out that they were fully enabled and compatible. Likewise, Polaris launched with DisplayPort 1.3/1.4 ports, but they were not actually capable of working above DP1.2 until the December ReLive update. HDMI 2.1 cables will be backward compatible and some features of HDMI 2.1 will work over existing HDMI cables while other features will require new cables. So we may end up with Vega/Volta having the hardware to support HDMI 2.1, but not actually working beyond 2.0 until a later software update.

Can't wait for fully featured 2.1 displays...

 

[Spjut]

What is Youtube's Stats for nerds supposed to report if VP9 is hardware accelerated?

 

[nathanddrews]

What is Youtube's Stats for nerds supposed to report if VP9 is hardware accelerated?

I didn't think that it states whether something is accelerated or not. I think you have to open a resource monitor for your CPU, GPU, and then see if you're dropping frames. Otherwise, just use DXVA Checker to see if your setup (hardware/drivers) supports acceleration.