When did cheating become considered innocuous? also, cable modem question...

[ScottyB]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
My memory isn't perfect, but based on what I know about myself I have never cheated in school in my life. You people who think cheating is OK have lost something of priceless value. You are cheaters. When you look at yourselves you know you are cheaters. You think it doesn't matter because you have no idea what it means to have real self respect. To cheat is to imply, to prove, really, that you are cut off from that experience. Self respect is the only thing worth a damn in life. Cheaters have no idea just how impoverished they really are. Ignorance is ignorance. Bliss comes from real inner contentment. If you cheat, stop immediately.

If you have yourself, you don't worry about people skewing the curve. If you do honest work you aren't on that chart anyway. Don't worry. If you are real and honest you will be the only kind of success that matters.

Woot!!! I am successful. Thanks, Moonbeam. That is something that mmy mom would say to me. It is nice to hear it from someone else.

 

[Siddhartha]

Didn't Plato complain about the decline of the morality of the youth of his day?

 

[Spoooon]

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Didn't Plato complain about the decline of the morality of the youth of his day?

It was one of the early big names. But it's also relative. I'm sure the youth of 50 years ago look like saints compared to the youth of today. Some oldster anandtecher can post and clear up the matter.

 

[Moonbeam]

Actually Socrates got accused of corrupting the youth with his inflexible insistance on honesty and truth. The elders didn't like that in their kids.

A blessing on your mother, ScottyB and on you.

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
My memory isn't perfect, but based on what I know about myself I have never cheated in school in my life. You people who think cheating is OK have lost something of priceless value. You are cheaters. When you look at yourselves you know you are cheaters. You think it doesn't matter because you have no idea what it means to have real self respect. To cheat is to imply, to prove, really, that you are cut off from that experience. Self respect is the only thing worth a damn in life. Cheaters have no idea just how impoverished they really are. Ignorance is ignorance. Bliss comes from real inner contentment. If you cheat, stop immediately.

If you have yourself, you don't worry about people skewing the curve. If you do honest work you aren't on that chart anyway. Don't worry. If you are real and honest you will be the only kind of success that matters.

Agreed, I feel the same. I never cheated on anything in school because I always liked the challenge of testing myself. I used to love getting tested; it was kind of a rush actually. I knew it was unlikely that I would always be correct but I looked forward to finding out where I had failed; to see what I had missed. If you cheat, there's no challenge and no learning. It's kind of like cheating in a game; what's the point of playing if it's no challenge.

 

[SlowSS]

When you cheat in the school...You are only cheating yourself.

 

[LordJezo]

Originally posted by: SlowSS
When you cheat in the school...You are only cheating yourself.

Wrong.

Here it seems like if you dont do a little bit of cheating you fall behind in your grades and slip away on the curve.

The playing field needs to be leveled, and if putting stuff in your calculator means you will be on the same level as everyone else taking the exam, then so be it.

 

[SlowSS]

Originally posted by: LordJezo

Originally posted by: SlowSS
When you cheat in the school...You are only cheating yourself.

Wrong.

Here it seems like if you dont do a little bit of cheating you fall behind in your grades and slip away on the curve.

The playing field needs to be leveled, and if putting stuff in your calculator means you will be on the same level as everyone else taking the exam, then so be it.

Hey, if you want to cheat, by all means go for it. If you have to cheat that just means you weren't dedicated enough to study as much as you needed.

I didn't have to cheat to get my degree.

 

[Spoooon]

Originally posted by: SlowSS

Originally posted by: LordJezo

Originally posted by: SlowSS
When you cheat in the school...You are only cheating yourself.

Wrong.

Here it seems like if you dont do a little bit of cheating you fall behind in your grades and slip away on the curve.

The playing field needs to be leveled, and if putting stuff in your calculator means you will be on the same level as everyone else taking the exam, then so be it.

Hey, if you want to cheat, by all means go for it. If you have to cheat that just means you weren't dedicated enough to study as much as you needed.

I didn't have to cheat to get my degree.

I think that's the right attitude. Your degree is worth squat if you had to cheat to get it. And if you cheated to get it, you tell yourself whatever you want to make yourself feel better about it.

 

[LordJezo]

Originally posted by: Spoooon

Originally posted by: SlowSS

Originally posted by: LordJezo

Originally posted by: SlowSS
When you cheat in the school...You are only cheating yourself.

Wrong.

Here it seems like if you dont do a little bit of cheating you fall behind in your grades and slip away on the curve.

The playing field needs to be leveled, and if putting stuff in your calculator means you will be on the same level as everyone else taking the exam, then so be it.

Hey, if you want to cheat, by all means go for it. If you have to cheat that just means you weren't dedicated enough to study as much as you needed.

I didn't have to cheat to get my degree.

I think that's the right attitude. Your degree is worth squat if you had to cheat to get it. And if you cheated to get it, you tell yourself whatever you want to make yourself feel better about it.

Tell that to the engineering classes that work out a seating plan before class so they can all pass around papers during the exams. Or the kids in econ classes that put their papers on the edges of the desk so their friends can copy off of them. It's much worse then you would expect.

Professors don't seem to care anymore.

 

[SlowSS]

Originally posted by: LordJezo

Originally posted by: Spoooon

Originally posted by: SlowSS

Originally posted by: LordJezo

Originally posted by: SlowSS
When you cheat in the school...You are only cheating yourself.

Wrong.

Here it seems like if you dont do a little bit of cheating you fall behind in your grades and slip away on the curve.

The playing field needs to be leveled, and if putting stuff in your calculator means you will be on the same level as everyone else taking the exam, then so be it.

Hey, if you want to cheat, by all means go for it. If you have to cheat that just means you weren't dedicated enough to study as much as you needed.

I didn't have to cheat to get my degree.

I think that's the right attitude. Your degree is worth squat if you had to cheat to get it. And if you cheated to get it, you tell yourself whatever you want to make yourself feel better about it.

Tell that to the engineering classes that work out a seating plan before class so they can all pass around papers during the exams. Or the kids in econ classes that put their papers on the edges of the desk so their friends can copy off of them. It's much worse then you would expect.

Professors don't seem to care anymore.

So if those engineering students jumps off the bridge, would you follow them to death?

Come on dude, just because group of students cheat doesn't mean that you need to.

I would think that it would be much more satisfying to get an A without cheating,

knowing that you did it right way...don't you?

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: LordJezo

Originally posted by: Spoooon

Originally posted by: SlowSS

Originally posted by: LordJezo

Originally posted by: SlowSS
When you cheat in the school...You are only cheating yourself.

Wrong.

Here it seems like if you dont do a little bit of cheating you fall behind in your grades and slip away on the curve.

The playing field needs to be leveled, and if putting stuff in your calculator means you will be on the same level as everyone else taking the exam, then so be it.

Hey, if you want to cheat, by all means go for it. If you have to cheat that just means you weren't dedicated enough to study as much as you needed.

I didn't have to cheat to get my degree.

I think that's the right attitude. Your degree is worth squat if you had to cheat to get it. And if you cheated to get it, you tell yourself whatever you want to make yourself feel better about it.

Tell that to the engineering classes that work out a seating plan before class so they can all pass around papers during the exams. Or the kids in econ classes that put their papers on the edges of the desk so their friends can copy off of them. It's much worse then you would expect.

Professors don't seem to care anymore.

Yeah, and that's too bad because out in the real world where it's dog-eat-dog, there's nobody around to let you cheat off of them. These guys are just postponing failure instead of learning to achieve.

 

[Draknor]

What are you defining as "cheating"?

I ask because I see different kinds of cheating. For instance - putting formulas on your calculator. Is this "cheating"? I've done this throughout high-school & college. I don't think I've had teachers expressly prohibit doing this, either. My argument was - to actually put this into a calculator (back int he days of TI-85, before the "pretty print" of the TI-92/89), I actually learned more about the equation so I could type it in in a form that made sense to me. (Some of the more complicated physics & calculus equations looked very ugly typed in this fashion, and so I had to know what they meant / how they worked to make sense of what I had typed). So this actually helped me in two ways - helped me to learn the equations (which I often then didn't need to refer back to during the test itself), and gave me a reference to ensure I didn't make simple mistake (ie forgetting a minus sign, or some order of operations, etc).

and I've done it the other way - tried to use my calculator's memory as a substitute for studying (in my college prob & stats class). This almost never worked - without knowing how to use the equations, just having them there was usually pretty worthless. I would stare at the equations and say "Hmm... I wonder what that variable represents?"

So yeah, cheating is bad, but some things that might be considered "cheating" I think should not be.

 

[SlowSS]

Originally posted by: Draknor
What are you defining as "cheating"?

I ask because I see different kinds of cheating. For instance - putting formulas on your calculator. Is this "cheating"? I've done this throughout high-school & college. I don't think I've had teachers expressly prohibit doing this, either. My argument was - to actually put this into a calculator (back int he days of TI-85, before the "pretty print" of the TI-92/89), I actually learned more about the equation so I could type it in in a form that made sense to me. (Some of the more complicated physics & calculus equations looked very ugly typed in this fashion, and so I had to know what they meant / how they worked to make sense of what I had typed). So this actually helped me in two ways - helped me to learn the equations (which I often then didn't need to refer back to during the test itself), and gave me a reference to ensure I didn't make simple mistake (ie forgetting a minus sign, or some order of operations, etc).

and I've done it the other way - tried to use my calculator's memory as a substitute for studying (in my college prob & stats class). This almost never worked - without knowing how to use the equations, just having them there was usually pretty worthless. I would stare at the equations and say "Hmm... I wonder what that variable represents?"

So yeah, cheating is bad, but some things that might be considered "cheating" I think should not be.

I think each college students knows when they are cheating. If you are wondering if what you are doing is cheating or not, chances are that you are.

As for programming formulas into calculator, if your professor clearly indicated that it is OK, then I don't see any problem with it.
But, I do think it's very important that you clearly understand the equations so that you could double check the output to ensure it is the correct answer.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

How do you not know when you're cheating. If the teacher lays down the rules and you do otherwise, you're cheating. If you're preseting anyone else's work as your own, you're cheating.

It's not rocket science, folks. But that's what The Dumbing Of America has done.

Oh well. Carry on l4m3rZ.