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When America Loses a War, it does it in STYLE!

A

AaronP

Diamond Member
I don't believe that we "lost" the Vietnam war, in the larger scale, I believe we won because we proved a point to Russia that we will stop them from expanding. Anyways, here is a stat that the History Channel just said that I didn't know:

unofficial estimate of NVA and VC deaths during the Vietnam war: 2 Million!

The USA lost 50,000 soldiers, and they lost 2 million! If we did "lose" the war, it wasn't because our military wasn't kicking ass over there.
 
Finnish losses during the Winter War (KIA): 26.662 men
Soviet losses during the Winter War (KIA): 150.000 - 200.000 men (+ about 250.000 wounded)

Yet we lost.
 
I remember my old chem teacher saying he never was in a battle where he lost during the vietnam war. It was won of those, win the battle, lose the war kind of things.

From what I remember to effectively fight the war we'd have to expand hostilities to mainland china, but we couldn't commit to that afaik.
 
According to the same program you're watching, South Vietnam lost 1 million soldiers...about the same number of civilians.

And your numbers for American deaths are a little off. About 58,000 Americans killed with an additional 2,000 MIA.

So the Americans weren't doing all the ass kicking
 
IMHO, we had no chice then to pull out. Casuilty's would have to be almost absolute, almost all NV civ's would have to be killed. They were a nation whom I look up to in the solidarity that they showed in the face of adversity. I would like to think that any aggressor against the USA will face the same thing when moving through our land.

Armani
 


<< The USA lost 50,000 soldiers, and they lost 2 million! If we did "lose" the war, it wasn't because our military wasn't kicking ass over there. >>



the movie "we are soldiers" says it all,,, vietnamese were killed by the dozen....whereas americans died one by one...and when each person died the whole world stopped turning and a dramatic background score comes up....


the US never lost the vietnam war, it did have more losses that it was supposed to....being the military giant that it is. Vietnamese died in the millions....US never lost the war...
 
Traditionally, the winner of a war is determined by who owns what territory at the end of the fighting, not who lost the larger number of people.

What Nemesis77 said...
 
Sad part is, it all could have been prevented
As I recall, Ho Che Minh's guerillas overthrew the Japanese in 1945. He asked for America (via OSS) to recognize Vietnam as a country, and not as a colony of the French, and for American support in building the new country. Apparently, someon at the State Dept didn't want to upset the French, so theybacked away from them...
 


<< Sad part is, it all could have been prevented
As I recall, Ho Che Minh's guerillas overthrew the Japanese in 1945. He asked for America (via OSS) to recognize Vietnam as a country, and not as a colony of the French, and for American support in building the new country. Apparently, someon at the State Dept didn't want to upset the French, so theybacked away from them... >>



That's pretty sad.... Ask any American today, we don't care what the French think of us.

🙂
 
In the book "Fallen Angels" (non-fiction) the author was a ranking solider in vietnam. He said they'd often count extra bodies, because that's what HQ wanted to see. If a soldier thought he killed a VC, but they couldn't find the body, they counted it. This happened especially during the later years.
 
Actually, we just left. And now the Vietnamese kids (most of the country is under 25) want a Coke and a burger at McDonalds. I think we won the peace.
 
The military is the "strong arm" of the American political machine. The political machine failed the country and the military. The military more or less "did" their job, but the political leadership screwed over the whole lot.
 
"If they run, they're VC. If they stand still, they're well-trained VC."

"How can you shoot women and children?"
"Easy... you just don't lead 'em as much."
 
Well Siagon is now called Ho Chi Minh City and the soviets got their deep water port at Cam Rahn (sp?) Bay, so we did lose the war. Its not always about body counts and is much more complicated than we killed x number and they killed y number. You know, the South killed more Union soldiers and they still lost.
 
Let me play the bleeding heart liberal here.

OMFG u are talking about deaths in the MILLIONS as if it were nothing!! THIS IS NOT STARCRAFT OR A VIDEO GAME. these are REAL LIVES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. Have some Fvcking RESPECT.
 


<< I believe we won because we proved a point to Russia that we will stop them from expanding. Anyways, here is a stat that the History Channel just said that I didn't know: >>

I hope you are kidding. We withdrew and South Vietnam fell to communism. How is that a victory? It was a huge loss for the US - politically, militarily and for ~60,000 families - personally.
 
The soldiers did not lose the war. Politicians, the media, and leftist/communist activists lost the war for the United States.
 
I hope you are kidding. We withdrew and South Vietnam fell to communism. How is that a victory?

because it told Russia and the world that we're willing to spill our blood and send our boys over there to stop communism, the end result in Vietnam isn't what's important. Those 58,000 didn't die in vain.
 


<< I hope you are kidding. We withdrew and South Vietnam fell to communism. How is that a victory? because it told Russia and the world that we're willing to spill our blood and send our boys over there to stop communism, the end result in Vietnam isn't what's important. Those 58,000 didn't die in vain. >>




This is precisely what Kennedy thought. In fact he told McNamara that America would accept any loss of life to stem communism. Unfortunately you are making the same mistake that Kennedy did. It was NEVER about communism. It was about a regional conflict between sides that have been fighting for hundreds of years if not longer. It just happened that in this case the excuse for the battle was communism. Since Kennedy, and subsequently Johnson had a fundamental misunderstanding of the politics of the region, we committed troops not to stop communism, but get involved in what was essentually tribal warfare.
 


<< I hope you are kidding. We withdrew and South Vietnam fell to communism. How is that a victory?

because it told Russia and the world that we're willing to spill our blood and send our boys over there to stop communism, the end result in Vietnam isn't what's important. Those 58,000 didn't die in vain. >>



But Laos, Cambodia, Afganistan (and some others that I don't remember) also fell to communism (China or Soviet) after Vietnam, didn't they?
 
But Laos, Cambodia, Afganistan (and some others that I don't remember) also fell to communism (China or Soviet) after Vietnam, didn't they?

there was an article posted here a long long time ago, about how the vietnam war did do some good.

in any event, i think we were more concerned with the philippines, indonesia, malasia, etc.
 


<< "If they run, they're VC. If they stand still, they're well-trained VC."

"How can you shoot women and children?"
"Easy... you just don't lead 'em as much." >>



Ahahahahahaha, great movie.
Militarially we one the Vietnam War. Politically we lost in a big way. People in the states didn't support our troops. Our political leaders were idiots. In recently released tapes of Nixon, he said that he was willing to use nuclear weapons to end the war. Thank God that idiot was yanked out of office. Had he done that, the whole world would be a bigger mess than it is.
 
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