When a former coworker leaves the team for another...

corinthos

Golden Member
Mar 22, 2000
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We had a coworker that did good work and there was never a problem with lack of responsiveness. The coworker recently left the team to join another. While the coworker was known to have been fed up with certain people and the office situation, conversations about daily events were still maintained and there wasn't a problem with work quality through the coworker's last day.

Other coworkers remaining took over some projects and had a rather simple/quick question and needed the coworker to briefly fill them in. Although the former coworker isn't obligated to respond, it seems like the decent thing to do, even if just to say they have too much on their plate now to offer any temporary residual support through email. The former coworker did not respond. In fact, there is an optional water club and the coworker stiffed us on the last month's dues, with no response to the membership dues email. No response was made to contest the amount due by the coworker either. These lack of responses seem uncharacteristic of the coworker. Perhaps we never really know someone after all, in a work setting. They may be holding in a lot that we don't realize.

Anyone encountered anything similar before?
 

Rumpltzer

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2003
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Well, sure. People hold stuff in. It's not like NO ONE knows; it's just more that most people don't know.

I look forward to the day when I get to walk away from my own place of work. I think of it at least a few times a week. I've been planning it for years. Every time I go on an interview or get an offer for a new job, I hope that I'll finally be able to carry out my walk-away plan... alas, it's yet to come.

Last week, my boss' boss yelled at me in the hallway in front of my office. It was after hours, so most people weren't around. Those who were around got an earful. It was totally out of line, he was out of control, he told me to "go to hell", and it was just too much. I wrote a letter to HR about it, mentioned that it's been a pattern with this guy, and they've not done diddly. I told other people at work about what happened, and people seem surprised. The guy seems so mild-mannered to so many people, but he's got a history of losing his shit.

Like I said, it's not like no one knows; it might just be that most people don't know.
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Maybe he wasn't as happy as you thought he was....Either that or he's just totally swamped with all the awesome work his new position has to offer that he just doesn't have time to respond to emails from co-workers he left behind.
 
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JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
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he left the company or just switched depts.?

if he left the company, then I understand.
if he only switched depts...
 

NesuD

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,999
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Sounds like maybe things weren't really all puppy dogs and rainbows for your former colleague. He moved on end of story.
 

JM Aggie08

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
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1) Has he actually been in the office?
2) How well do you know them?
3) The fuck is a water club?
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,634
6,508
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Well, sure. People hold stuff in. It's not like NO ONE knows; it's just more that most people don't know.

I look forward to the day when I get to walk away from my own place of work. I think of it at least a few times a week. I've been planning it for years. Every time I go on an interview or get an offer for a new job, I hope that I'll finally be able to carry out my walk-away plan... alas, it's yet to come.

Last week, my boss' boss yelled at me in the hallway in front of my office. It was after hours, so most people weren't around. Those who were around got an earful. It was totally out of line, he was out of control, he told me to "go to hell", and it was just too much. I wrote a letter to HR about it, mentioned that it's been a pattern with this guy, and they've not done diddly. I told other people at work about what happened, and people seem surprised. The guy seems so mild-mannered to so many people, but he's got a history of losing his shit.

Like I said, it's not like no one knows; it might just be that most people don't know.
LOL I don't understand people who work somewhere they are miserable for months, let alone YEARS.

When I left my prior project and went to a new one, I still helped those guys out. I asked to change projects because it was getting stale and I did not like the direction that the new tech lead was taking the software. I didn't have an issue with any of the people though on a work/personal level. I am working on the same floor with all those guys but on the other side and we still chat from time to time.
 
Mar 11, 2004
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1) Has he actually been in the office?
2) How well do you know them?
3) The fuck is a water club?

This. Its summer vacation season. Or maybe they're doing training (and so aren't accessing or having time to access e-mails not relevant to their new position). Have you tried contacting their department just to see if they're available?

Definitely 2 as well, who contacted them about this stuff and what tone did they take? If they sent a passive aggressive asshole message, or sent a bunch of messages, or other things they might be ignoring them for fairly valid reasons. They could also be swamped. Who knows, maybe they were given a new e-mail account and were locked out of their previous one?

Yeah. Also did this person actually make use of the club? Is it that big of a deal?

LOL I don't understand people who work somewhere they are miserable for months, let alone YEARS.

When I left my prior project and went to a new one, I still helped those guys out. I asked to change projects because it was getting stale and I did not like the direction that the new tech lead was taking the software. I didn't have an issue with any of the people though on a work/personal level. I am working on the same floor with all those guys but on the other side and we still chat from time to time.

Because some people literally cannot afford to unless they have something better lined up, and that can be difficult as they can't take time off to try to line up something better. Or might have limited ability to (lack education/experience to be able to move positions, or maybe their industry is on the downturn and so there's a general lack of positions open for it), or work in a field where shitty workplaces are exceedingly common (so there's risk that you could end up in an even worse situation).
 

corinthos

Golden Member
Mar 22, 2000
1,858
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he left the company or just switched depts.?

if he left the company, then I understand.
if he only switched depts...

He only switched departments, and it's 5 minute walk away or so only. Usually, at least in my experience, it's customary to provide some degree of residual support in situations where it may be needed.. limited e-mail responses to help unblock people taking over your projects during a transitional period.. tying up loose ends, providing brief background info, etc. People leaving don't owe it to their old teams, but it's generally considered decent to respond to emails, if only just to say that you don't have the time with your new duties or whatever. But a non-response from day one of leaving is another thing..
 

corinthos

Golden Member
Mar 22, 2000
1,858
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This. Its summer vacation season. Or maybe they're doing training (and so aren't accessing or having time to access e-mails not relevant to their new position). Have you tried contacting their department just to see if they're available?

Definitely 2 as well, who contacted them about this stuff and what tone did they take? If they sent a passive aggressive asshole message, or sent a bunch of messages, or other things they might be ignoring them for fairly valid reasons. They could also be swamped. Who knows, maybe they were given a new e-mail account and were locked out of their previous one?

Yeah. Also did this person actually make use of the club? Is it that big of a deal?



Because some people literally cannot afford to unless they have something better lined up, and that can be difficult as they can't take time off to try to line up something better. Or might have limited ability to (lack education/experience to be able to move positions, or maybe their industry is on the downturn and so there's a general lack of positions open for it), or work in a field where shitty workplaces are exceedingly common (so there's risk that you could end up in an even worse situation).


Yeah the person made use of the club and the irony is the person did not like when certain usual suspects would not pay their share on time.... it's a small amount owed, but it's just surprising that the person would not respond when an email when out reminding them of their dues. Seems uncharacteristic of the person, but apparently they made a decision that once they left it'd be a clean break.
 

corinthos

Golden Member
Mar 22, 2000
1,858
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1) Has he actually been in the office?
2) How well do you know them?
3) The fuck is a water club?

Yes, the person has been in the office because a couple of team members were in the area and dropped by to see the new work environment, etc.

Have known the person under two years. Did good work, wasn't lazy, never had a real issue with lack of communication or assistance to the team. The person did express wanting out and expressed being irked by certain people but it didn't impact team communication when working on things together.

Only thing that can sort of explain it is the person was a type that held things in and didn't really let on about the degree of his real feelings about this or that.
 

corinthos

Golden Member
Mar 22, 2000
1,858
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Sounds like maybe things weren't really all puppy dogs and rainbows for your former colleague. He moved on end of story.

Except certain important pass-downs weren't done prior to leaving and remaining team members taking over support of those projects have to fill in the blanks so to speak, when a simple email reply could help them save lots of time. It'll manage and move on, but it's disappointing nonetheless when you thought you knew a coworker good enough.
 

corinthos

Golden Member
Mar 22, 2000
1,858
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81
Well, sure. People hold stuff in. It's not like NO ONE knows; it's just more that most people don't know.

I look forward to the day when I get to walk away from my own place of work. I think of it at least a few times a week. I've been planning it for years. Every time I go on an interview or get an offer for a new job, I hope that I'll finally be able to carry out my walk-away plan... alas, it's yet to come.

Last week, my boss' boss yelled at me in the hallway in front of my office. It was after hours, so most people weren't around. Those who were around got an earful. It was totally out of line, he was out of control, he told me to "go to hell", and it was just too much. I wrote a letter to HR about it, mentioned that it's been a pattern with this guy, and they've not done diddly. I told other people at work about what happened, and people seem surprised. The guy seems so mild-mannered to so many people, but he's got a history of losing his shit.

Like I said, it's not like no one knows; it might just be that most people don't know.

I've seen my share of managers talking to their direct reports about things that should really be discussed in a private conference room, and not within earshot of other employees. I've also seen teams talk about people and things in team meetings in open conference areas where there are occupied cubicles nearby. They should know better.

As for HR. I have rarely, if ever, heard of an HR responsive to the employee. They're there to cover the employer's ass.
 

Ruptga

Lifer
Aug 3, 2006
10,246
207
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Often, someone doesn't realize just how much they fucking hate those assholes until they're finally out of whatever situation and can look back at it without it hanging over their head. It's easy to suppress all of that while you're stuck there, there's no point in dealing with it or even acknowledging it because there's nothing that can be done about it, plus it's your livelihood, but once you're out all of that comes to the surface. That may not be what happened here, but it is not uncommon. Spend five minutes on the possibility that their (apparent) resentment is justified, and see if there's anything you can do to fix those problems.
 

corinthos

Golden Member
Mar 22, 2000
1,858
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Often, someone doesn't realize just how much they fucking hate those assholes until they're finally out of whatever situation and can look back at it without it hanging over their head. It's easy to suppress all of that while you're stuck there, there's no point in dealing with it or even acknowledging it because there's nothing that can be done about it, plus it's your livelihood, but once you're out all of that comes to the surface. That may not be what happened here, but it is not uncommon. Spend five minutes on the possibility that their (apparent) resentment is justified, and see if there's anything you can do to fix those problems.

We knew the person was sick of the team and wanted out for various reasons. The person expressed that along with expressing dissatisfaction with 1 or 2 people (as we could tell by the way he'd talk about them when they weren't around). He would just avoid working with those 1 or 2 people and not talk to them. There was no constructive pulling those people aside and telling them what's bothering him. He held it all in. That's fine and everyone can deal with things however they choose.

IMO, though, It would have been better for the person to provide limited residual support OR simply extend a professional reply indicating inability to extend further assistance or knowledge dumps due to new duties. Instead of leaving with an otherwise decent image at work, I think the person wound up tarnishing it (also left with his share of monthly dues unpaid -- it's a small amount but it's the principle of it) unnecessarily.

Nobody is saying the resentment isn't unjustified. In fact, many others on the team want to leave for many of the same reasons. But, IMO, there are better ways to handle such things without damaging one's image. I know the manager, who treated the person very well, has also found it disappointing.
 
Feb 25, 2011
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1) Has he actually been in the office?
2) How well do you know them?
3) The fuck is a water club?

I've worked a couple places that had a water club. Basically everybody kicks in $20-30 and you rent a water cooler w/ service and refills.

It's a nice idea if you work somewhere where management is pinching pennies with the amenities, and the tap water is icky and/or never quite cold enough.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
878
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Shouldn't the team manager be responsible for assigning other employees to assume and learn the duties of the guy moving on during his two week notice period? I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect help from the guy after that. The idea that you or your manager thinks it tarnishes his image for not doing so is a bit dickish, IMHO.

That the employees have to pay for their own water cooler tells you right there how much the company really cares and values you as employees. Of course they are going to abuse you and expect you to bail them out with email support after leaving the team.

I understand loyalty because what is good for the company is often good for the employee, but there is a point where the company stops repaying the loyalty and employees move on. I suspect your friend felt so. Making noise at work that he was unsatisfied with his job would probably have made his situation worse.
 

Ruptga

Lifer
Aug 3, 2006
10,246
207
106
^^ I am inclined to agree. The guy's biggest sin was not crossing some Ts, but that is being focused on at the expense of acknowledged systemic problems. Priorities, man.
 

Humpy

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2011
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Look at it from his perspective and accept that he no longer wants to associate with losers.
 

corinthos

Golden Member
Mar 22, 2000
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Shouldn't the team manager be responsible for assigning other employees to assume and learn the duties of the guy moving on during his two week notice period? I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect help from the guy after that. The idea that you or your manager thinks it tarnishes his image for not doing so is a bit dickish, IMHO.

That the employees have to pay for their own water cooler tells you right there how much the company really cares and values you as employees. Of course they are going to abuse you and expect you to bail them out with email support after leaving the team.

I understand loyalty because what is good for the company is often good for the employee, but there is a point where the company stops repaying the loyalty and employees move on. I suspect your friend felt so. Making noise at work that he was unsatisfied with his job would probably have made his situation worse.

There are apparently some people who are still bitter about their bad experiences in their previous workplaces. You can tell because they get heated in discourse and it colors their responses. And I'm not saying the person quoted above is who I have in mind when I say that. I'm just quoting to respond to some things in their post.

The fact is, many, if not most people, have had bad experiences in a previous workplace. When that happens you are free to leave and move on, and you don't owe the previous workplace any residual support. Nothing wrong with that. You don't owe any loyalty to an employer who reserves the right to terminate you at any time. The old days of loyalty between employers and employees is, for the most part, no more, for better or for worse. But expectation of loyalty isn't the issue here (even though for some reason it was brought up by an earlier poster who somehow read things that way).

Nobody on the team expected the ex team member to continue providing residual support out of a sense of loyalty. And many team members, if not all, recognize that there are systemic problems within the department and team (which is part of why the ex team member left). And, yes, the manager's job is and should have been to make sure that a sound transition plan was well defined and tracked, so that important i's and T's would be dotted and crossed by the person's last day. It is a joint effort by the departing employee and manager. It's a management failure for not driving this. With that said, rather than an across the board lack of reply by the ex team member to queries by former team members (those that were on good terms and those that weren't, both) about projects left behind, email responses simply indicating no bandwidth to provide any residual support (even if the truth may be no will to provide it rather than a bandwidth issue) would have been the better action. It could even be a canned auto-response message. But by giving no replies, I think most professionals would not find that to be the best course of action. For one thing, you never know when you may end up working with an old coworker, customer, or manager (even if it's very unlikely you'll ever see them again). So, it seems to me that the best option would have been a brief one-time reply, even if canned. The decision to not reply to the former team's emails at all is the ex team member's choice to make. On the flip side, should there be a future need to reach former team members, manager, or customers by the ex team member, for some reason, or one of them ends up in a department that is of some assistance to the ex team member's department, there is potential for the lack of response by the ex team member to be reciprocated someday. Another reason to simply send a one-time response, even if canned, even if only to indicate lack of bandwidth to respond to former team queries, in a tactful and professional way.

As for the tarnishing of one's image, not paying one's share of dues owed after leaving does tarnish one's reputation. You can try to come up with all the justifications you want about why you won't make good on your debt, including how much you disliked your old workplace. But the fact is, nobody forces anyone to participate in a group buy. When you do join, you commit yourself to making good on the joint agreement.
And if anything is "dickish", it'd be stiffing your old team on a legitimate debt. Then again, some people are fine with defaulting on their mortgages or other loans. But there are some who see the ethical thing to do as paying what one owes, because they view their own character and integrity as being at stake. They can separate between their rightful debt/commitment made and their feelings about their former workplace. The size of the balance is irrelevant. Although unlikely, it may be possible some day for the ex team member to end up on the same team again with some former team members or former manager. And should that team choose to establish a group buy of their own, the default by the ex team member would potentially be taken to account, and there would likely be some hesitance in allowing the person to join, based on the past unresolved dues.
 
Last edited:

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,741
456
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Do you know there are some people that set up their email filters by their current team so they know exactly what they need to see at that time, and everything else often gets ignored? You could easily be seeing that here. Seems very odd to judge somebody so harshly on a lack of a response, when so many things could cause a lack of response when they've changed teams.