Whats your thoughts on building new Nuclear power plants

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

lokiju

Lifer
May 29, 2003
18,526
5
0
Originally posted by: Ime
Around where I live, it seems to be a NIMBY topic. People are for nuke power, but not close to their own homes.

I'm personally for it since I have faith that a modern plant will be much much safer than past designs, but when I was discussing it with my fiancee she basically had a NIMBY approach and if they want to try and put it IMBY then I'm against the whole idea.

Seems this is a very common stance.

Maybe I should update the poll, but that'll screw up the results pretty good.

Oh well :p
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,354
8,444
126
the chinese are building reactors that can't meltdown. pebble bed has it's problems (disposal), but meltdown isn't one of them.

back in july, the houston chronicle published some op-eds because the south texas nuclear project in matagorda county wanted to expand. here is the text of the negative one:
New South Texas Reactors: Build and Risks Will Come
More study of radiation threats, disease rates needed
By Joseph J. Mangano
Houston Chronicle, TX
July 21, 2006



LAST month, NRG Energy notified federal officials of its intention to build and operate two new nuclear reactors at the South Texas Project site near Bay City. The action by NRG, based in Princeton, N.J., has national implications, as utility companies move closer to the first new order of a nuclear reactor in the United States since 1978.



NRG gave several reasons for supporting the move to expand nuclear power in Texas, such as meeting a growing demand for energy and the high cost of other sources such as natural gas. But the most important issue, safety and human health, was ignored.



Perhaps the best-known health threat that nuclear reactors pose to humans is the worst-case scenario of a meltdown. A reactor core and waste pools store massive amounts of highly toxic radioactivity. Any accident or act of sabotage can release these chemicals into the air and cause large casualties. Reactors around the world have experienced accidents, with the 1986 Chernobyl being the most catastrophic.



But another Chernobyl isn't necessary for reactors to harm humans. Every day, reactors release a small portion of the radioactivity they produce into the atmosphere. This radioactivity takes the form of more than 100 chemicals that are breathed and consumed in food and water by humans. These chemicals harm the body in varying ways. Strontium-90 attaches to bone and teeth, Cesium-137 distributes in soft tissues and Iodine-131 seeks out the thyroid gland.



Each of these chemicals injures and destroys cells once inside the body. All cause cancer, particularly in infants and children, who are most susceptible to radiation's toxic effects.



The issue of whether new reactors will affect persons living near South Texas Project is better understood by examining the record of the two reactors now operating there. These reactors started up in 1988 and 1989, and are the largest of the 103 reactors in the United States. They now produce about 5 percent of the electricity in Texas.



South Texas Project is located in the center of Matagorda County, which has had a population of about 38,000 for the past quarter century. All county residents live within 15 miles of the plant. The county is very similar to the state of Texas in a number of ways. It has roughly the same age, race and gender distribution, and about the same poverty, educational and homeownership levels.



In the years 1986-1989, just as South Texas Project was starting operations, death rates for infants and children in Matagorda County were well below state rates.



But in the following four years, as the reactors began emitting radioactivity into the environment, the infant and child death rates rose 60 percent and 33 percent, respectively, while state rates declined.



Today, Matagorda County rates remain higher than state rates.



The death rate for all cancers combined in Matagorda County was 5 percent below Texas' in 1986-1989. But the rate is now 16 percent higher than Texas', as is the county incidence rate. Each year, about 200 county residents are diagnosed with cancer and about 90 die of the disease.



Changes in death rates for infants and children, and in overall cancer rates, may be affected by many reasons. However, none is apparent to explain the decline in Matagorda's health record. The county has two hospitals and is just 90 miles from Houston, where world-class specialty care is available. It does not have overwhelming numbers of poor or uneducated persons. The fact remains that a county with below-average death rates turned into one with above-average death rates after South Texas began operating.



The only federal study of cancer near U.S. nuclear plants was conducted by the National Cancer Institute. But because the study took place in the late 1980s, reactors such as South Texas Project were omitted, as no cancer data after the plant opened were available. Thus, health risks in the South Texas Project area remains unexamined.



Because an environmental health risk such as radiation is often complex to understand, caution must be exercised. More study should be given to understanding the increase in Matagorda County's disease rates ? especially before the proposal to expand the plant goes into effect. The public must be fully informed of any risks to its health from basic functions such as breathing air, drinking water and eating food. Until these risks are known, non-toxic forms of electricity should be pursued.



Mangano is national coordinator of the Radiation and Public Health Project research group based in New York.
 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,923
17
81
Originally posted by: ElFenix
the chinese are building reactors that can't meltdown. pebble bed has it's problems (disposal), but meltdown isn't one of them.

back in july, the houston chronicle published some op-eds because the south texas nuclear project in matagorda county wanted to expand. here is the text of the negative one:
New South Texas Reactors: Build and Risks Will Come
More study of radiation threats, disease rates needed
By Joseph J. Mangano
Houston Chronicle, TX
July 21, 2006



LAST month, NRG Energy notified federal officials of its intention to build and operate two new nuclear reactors at the South Texas Project site near Bay City. The action by NRG, based in Princeton, N.J., has national implications, as utility companies move closer to the first new order of a nuclear reactor in the United States since 1978.



NRG gave several reasons for supporting the move to expand nuclear power in Texas, such as meeting a growing demand for energy and the high cost of other sources such as natural gas. Everything after this point was junk science, BS, and FUD, snipped to reflect reality

 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
0
Of the 400 or so reactors running in the world, only 2 have failed. There has been that threat of Chernobyl one step further, but it hasn't happened, and with advancing technology the likelihood of it happening continues to drop.

There are safe ways to store the waste underground and thus it ends up being a cleaner and even safer solution than coal (which is also in more limited supply compared to fission)

Fission in the mean time, fusion in the future...
 

newmachineoverlord

Senior member
Jan 22, 2006
484
0
0
Wind power is the cheapest method of electricity production, far cheaper than nuclear. Nuclear power is economically obsolete. There is no reason to ever build a nuclear reactor for grid power. There is more than enough wind to provide for all the power demands of all humans. The only good use for nukes is for extremely large vessels that can't stop to refuel often, such as submarines and space probes.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
8
0
Originally posted by: Ime
Around where I live, it seems to be a NIMBY topic. People are for nuke power, but not close to their own homes.

And thats the real problem. For Nuclear power to be effective iot has to be built close to the people that will use it. The further away the more lose it has in trying to get the power to the outlets.


Its a catch 69. People are for it but not near them and if the plant is not near them then it will not work well.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Originally posted by: newmachineoverlord
Wind power is the cheapest method of electricity production, far cheaper than nuclear. Nuclear power is economically obsolete. There is no reason to ever build a nuclear reactor for grid power. There is more than enough wind to provide for all the power demands of all humans. The only good use for nukes is for extremely large vessels that can't stop to refuel often, such as submarines and space probes.

Presently wind power is not very cost effective.

Also, the wind farms can not easily be positioned near the end-user. This increase costs for transmission lines.

Technology is improving the efficiency; but there are only so many areas that a wind farm can effectively be deployed. A nuke plant can generate much more power in the same land mass.

 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
0
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: newmachineoverlord
Wind power is the cheapest method of electricity production, far cheaper than nuclear. Nuclear power is economically obsolete. There is no reason to ever build a nuclear reactor for grid power. There is more than enough wind to provide for all the power demands of all humans. The only good use for nukes is for extremely large vessels that can't stop to refuel often, such as submarines and space probes.

Presently wind power is not very cost effective.

Also, the wind farms can not easily be positioned near the end-user. This increase costs for transmission lines.

Technology is improving the efficiency; but there are only so many areas that a wind farm can effectively be deployed. A nuke plant can generate much more power in the same land mass.

Yeah, wind farms are really only viable in niche markets (you need wind) and they're also subject to the whole NIMBY deal as they're eye-sores and produce noise pollution.

There's just too much irrational fear of nuclear power; similar to fear of flying despite it being a safer way to travel than by car.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: ElFenix
the chinese are building reactors that can't meltdown. pebble bed has it's problems (disposal), but meltdown isn't one of them.

back in july, the houston chronicle published some op-eds because the south texas nuclear project in matagorda county wanted to expand. here is the text of the negative one:
New South Texas Reactors: Build and Risks Will Come
More study of radiation threats, disease rates needed
By Joseph J. Mangano
Houston Chronicle, TX
July 21, 2006



LAST month, NRG Energy notified federal officials of its intention to build and operate two new nuclear reactors at the South Texas Project site near Bay City. The action by NRG, based in Princeton, N.J., has national implications, as utility companies move closer to the first new order of a nuclear reactor in the United States since 1978.



NRG gave several reasons for supporting the move to expand nuclear power in Texas, such as meeting a growing demand for energy and the high cost of other sources such as natural gas. Everything after this point was just science, BS, and FUD, snipped to reflect reality

LOL yea that writer must be unbiased because he writes for a newspaper.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: dug777
Something you all blithely ignore is the security issue. Hit a nuclear plant hard enough and you've got Chernobyl on mainland USA, more than likely in or close to an extremely densely populated urban area. Add an unfavourable wind and you could have fallout across tens of states...

Unlikely, sure, but the results would be awful and awesome (using the word in it's correct context for once ;))

Solution:
1) kill the terrorists
2) build nuke plants
 

amdskip

Lifer
Jan 6, 2001
22,530
13
81
My dad has worked at a nuclear power plant for 25+ years and I'm all for them except for the fuel rod waste.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,464
16,064
146
Originally posted by: newmachineoverlord
Wind power is the cheapest method of electricity production, far cheaper than nuclear. Nuclear power is economically obsolete. There is no reason to ever build a nuclear reactor for grid power. There is more than enough wind to provide for all the power demands of all humans. The only good use for nukes is for extremely large vessels that can't stop to refuel often, such as submarines and space probes.

Who the fsck has been lying to you?
 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,923
17
81
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: dug777
Something you all blithely ignore is the security issue. Hit a nuclear plant hard enough and you've got Chernobyl on mainland USA, more than likely in or close to an extremely densely populated urban area. Add an unfavourable wind and you could have fallout across tens of states...

Unlikely, sure, but the results would be awful and awesome (using the word in it's correct context for once ;))

Solution:
1) kill the terrorists
2) build nuke plants


All nuke plants in the US going back as far as there have been civilian nuke plants have been built with contailment walls designed to take a fully loaded 747 ramming them at full speed. This was designed out of rear of russians / really bad accidents, but they're safe from normal terrorist moves.
 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,923
17
81
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: newmachineoverlord
Wind power is the cheapest method of electricity production, far cheaper than nuclear. Nuclear power is economically obsolete. There is no reason to ever build a nuclear reactor for grid power. There is more than enough wind to provide for all the power demands of all humans. The only good use for nukes is for extremely large vessels that can't stop to refuel often, such as submarines and space probes.

Who the fsck has been lying to you?


Yeah, this is just really incorrect.
 

foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,883
63
91
Originally posted by: newmachineoverlord
Wind power is the cheapest method of electricity production, far cheaper than nuclear. Nuclear power is economically obsolete. There is no reason to ever build a nuclear reactor for grid power. There is more than enough wind to provide for all the power demands of all humans. The only good use for nukes is for extremely large vessels that can't stop to refuel often, such as submarines and space probes.

Where do you pick up this crap?
Run some data by us or link us...
 

Kaieye

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,275
0
0
Yep, lets stop the pending deaths of workers who are employed in the coal mining industry around the world.
 

Omegachi

Diamond Member
Mar 27, 2001
3,922
0
76
its not as bad as it seems, they are still operating the 3 remaining reactors in chernobyl.



And trust me, there is always ways to get rid of the rods.

 

altonb1

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2002
6,432
0
71
Within a couple of years, power consumption in the US will exceed available energy. Black outs will be a common problem again.

Fossil fuels are pollutants and more expensive than nuclear energy. Build the Nuclear plants, already!
 

Eeezee

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
9,922
0
0
I'm not only for it, I think it's a necessity. A disaster like Chernobyl is almost impossible at this stage. The American public needs to get over this absurd radiation scare that has been going on for 50+ years.

You can correlate an inverse relationship between the public's fear of an issue and the number of deaths caused by that issue. For example, everyone fears radiation yet very few people die or are seriously injured by radiation. Every time there's a story in the newspaper mentioning radiation, everyone freaks out. However, car crashes, a well-known killer in America, don't seem to be nearly as important as radiation despite being much more likely to end you. A car crash in the paper might cause people to grimmace, but it doesn't freak anyone out like radiation does despite being significantly more dangerous.

Just thought I'd put in that observation. Most of the voters in the poll support new nuclear plants anyway, but we're kind of not representative of most of America.