Whats with Intel.

[Nemesis 1]

I have always been a fan of Intel tech. and the Model for future engineering. But I am really starting to like this company.

You guys remember I while back I said. On the EU . Thing . Intel should just do the right thing . And pull out of that sales area. Than Watch the EU scream . LOL . Intels doing just that.

Good for you Intel. Somebody had to stand up to them .

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01...=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

 

[SunnyD]

God, my head would asplode if you and apoppin started posting in the same thread.

 

[Idontcare]

?Intel was given a deadline to respond,? said Tom McCoy, the executive vice president for legal affairs at A.M.D. ?Intel should accept the consequences of its delaying tactics.?

IMO AMD is harming, not helping, their position in this situation by interjecting commentary from the sideline in what is otherwise an EU vs. Intel matter at this point in time. AMD should be quiet as possible and let the EU and Intel battle it out in the public and legal courts.

As for what Intel is doing...this is precisely the type of business behavior that is why the concept of monopoly and abuse of power are tied together an equally despised by countries the world over.

Once you allow yourself to be dependent on a dominant business entity (Intel, MS, ExxonMobile) you lose all manner of leverage and negotiation with them when it comes to enforcing your laws and regulations.

Intel is proving the EU's point by their very actions of ignoring the EU's regulations and business laws. Whether or not Intel technically meets the legal definition of being a monopoly is not the point, the point is they are large enough and dominant enough that should they choose to abuse the power they have accumulated it will be a detriment to the society in which they operate...and it is that abuse of power which is what the anti-monopoly laws are intended in spirit to avoid by preventing the creation of dominant near-monopoly business entities.

edit: Nemesis where you see a company's headstrong leadership actions as a sign of strength I see it as a sign of willful negligence of their fiducial duties to their shareholders. This destructive path they have set Intel on will only produce a self-generated demise in shareholder equity.

 

[heyheybooboo]

I don't know a great deal about the legal and operational structure of the European Commission but would think at a minimum they have a system of punitive administrative civil penalties and direct court action because of a failure to ""...respond to the commission?s formal charges...""

I would think there is also a formal appeals process - whether Intel followed the correct appeal process or not by going to the ""Court of First Instance"" is not clear. Whatever the appeal, it was denied but that could have been on procedural grounds.

 

[Fox5]

Heh, well Intel is too big for the EU to prevent them from selling their products...
But the EU will get their money one way or the other. Even if they have to tax anyone who sells Intel products.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Fox5
Heh, well Intel is too big for the EU to prevent them from selling their products...
But the EU will get their money one way or the other. Even if they have to tax anyone who sells Intel products.

Ah yes, even more winnage for the citizens meant to be protected/bettered by the laws of the land. :roll:

Bottom line is when a company abuses power everyone loses, the consumer and the shareholder (eventually, the one's left holding the bag so to speak).

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
God, my head would asplode if you and apoppin started posting in the same thread.

really?
:evil:

how long will it take?

.. it is is MS' legal maneuvering
--even AMD doesn't get it

?Intel was given a deadline to respond,? said Tom McCoy, the executive vice president for legal affairs at A.M.D. ?Intel should accept the consequences of its delaying tactics.?

What *really* are the consequences?


intel calls EU's bluff
- clearly not all of their cards are on the table

You OK, SunnyD .. so far .. ?

 

[Hulk]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
I have always been a fan of Intel tech. and the Model for future engineering. But I am really starting to like this company.

You guys remember I while back I said. On the EU . Thing . Intel should just do the right thing . And pull out of that sales area. Than Watch the EU scream . LOL . Intels doing just that.

Good for you Intel. Somebody had to stand up to them .

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01...=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

Right on. I agree with you 100%.

 

[betasub]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
God, my head would asplode if you and apoppin started posting in the same thread.

I. know what you. mean.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Fox5
Heh, well Intel is too big for the EU to prevent them from selling their products...
But the EU will get their money one way or the other. Even if they have to tax anyone who sells Intel products.

Ah yes, even more winnage for the citizens meant to be protected/bettered by the laws of the land. :roll:

Bottom line is when a company abuses power everyone loses, the consumer and the shareholder (eventually, the one's left holding the bag so to speak).

same when a GOVERNMENT abuses their power... intel claims they cannot mount a response because the commission refuses to give them the evidence to WHICH they need to respond...

So the question is, who is abusing their power, intel or the EU antitrust comission.

This has the potential to harm both the EU economy and Intel...

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Fox5
Heh, well Intel is too big for the EU to prevent them from selling their products...
But the EU will get their money one way or the other. Even if they have to tax anyone who sells Intel products.

Ah yes, even more winnage for the citizens meant to be protected/bettered by the laws of the land. :roll:

Bottom line is when a company abuses power everyone loses, the consumer and the shareholder (eventually, the one's left holding the bag so to speak).

same when a GOVERNMENT abuses their power... intel claims they cannot mount a response because the commission refuses to give them the evidence to WHICH they need to respond...

So the question is, who is abusing their power, intel or the EU antitrust comission.

This has the potential to harm both the EU economy and Intel...

Thi is just the EU's way of trying to make a buck off of Americans. Intel should look at the records of EU government computer purchases and charge the EU the difference in the price the chips were sold at, and what the EU or AMD think they should have been sold at.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Fox5
Heh, well Intel is too big for the EU to prevent them from selling their products...
But the EU will get their money one way or the other. Even if they have to tax anyone who sells Intel products.

Ah yes, even more winnage for the citizens meant to be protected/bettered by the laws of the land. :roll:

Bottom line is when a company abuses power everyone loses, the consumer and the shareholder (eventually, the one's left holding the bag so to speak).

same when a GOVERNMENT abuses their power... intel claims they cannot mount a response because the commission refuses to give them the evidence to WHICH they need to respond...

So the question is, who is abusing their power, intel or the EU antitrust comission.

This has the potential to harm both the EU economy and Intel...

When it comes to government, abuse of power is presumed to be ever present

But sadly it is they who decide the rules of conduct in their sandbox; and if we want to play in their sandbox then we must abide by their rules, no matter how illogical or ill-founded they may be.

That includes the citizens who make up the sand of the sandbox. Play by your governments rules or you will be forcibly moved to the area of the sandbox that is known to be routinely doused with dog urine...

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

?Intel was given a deadline to respond,? said Tom McCoy, the executive vice president for legal affairs at A.M.D. ?Intel should accept the consequences of its delaying tactics.?

IMO AMD is harming, not helping, their position in this situation by interjecting commentary from the sideline in what is otherwise an EU vs. Intel matter at this point in time. AMD should be quiet as possible and let the EU and Intel battle it out in the public and legal courts.

As for what Intel is doing...this is precisely the type of business behavior that is why the concept of monopoly and abuse of power are tied together an equally despised by countries the world over.

Once you allow yourself to be dependent on a dominant business entity (Intel, MS, ExxonMobile) you lose all manner of leverage and negotiation with them when it comes to enforcing your laws and regulations.

Intel is proving the EU's point by their very actions of ignoring the EU's regulations and business laws. Whether or not Intel technically meets the legal definition of being a monopoly is not the point, the point is they are large enough and dominant enough that should they choose to abuse the power they have accumulated it will be a detriment to the society in which they operate...and it is that abuse of power which is what the anti-monopoly laws are intended in spirit to avoid by preventing the creation of dominant near-monopoly business entities.

edit: Nemesis where you see a company's headstrong leadership actions as a sign of strength I see it as a sign of willful negligence of their fiducial duties to their shareholders. This destructive path they have set Intel on will only produce a self-generated demise in shareholder equity.

Intel is American based company. If the Eu or any government can't enforce how business is done their on a yearly bases . Than to bad. If Intel did something wrong in past. Thats when it should be enforced. How long has the EU existed. When did common laws get put in place . Can the EU show that during the years . That they investagated that AMD had capiticy to make more processors . Seens to me with only 1 fab at the time . They were pretty limited.

These charges are BS . Based off of AMDs capcity. Because PC makers new AMD was limited they bought INtel CPU's and chipsets. Those are the only relavent facts. AMD prove you had capity durring the time you cring about. YOU win . Its that simple . But AMD knows its a lie . and AMD uses lies rather well as recent history shows.

The whole EU thing is a Bluff. Look at a world map, The EU is screwed and they know it. Thats why they want trade agreements that favor them . The EU is a small piss ant organization in position of nukes . Thats scary. Considering Hitler and the tiny whinney General who thought he could. I trust the Iranians more than the EU. LOK at them . Natyral resources depleted. Limited agriculeral are they. There A third world country that hasn't relized it yet. Or maybe thats what this is all about . We should back away from the EU . They really have nothing to offer us in return. Its the Russians and the east we want to do business with . Europe is dead. Thet have nothing of value. There just users of other people resources. Much of the Gold they have was stolen from the west and east including Russia. There a useless bunch . They served their purpose in the scope of time . But there time has fast as being a world power. Thats exactly why the want a 1 world government.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
These charges are BS . Based off of AMDs capcity. Because PC makers new AMD was limited they bought INtel CPU's and chipsets. Those are the only relavent facts. AMD prove you had capity durring the time you cring about. YOU win . Its that simple . But AMD knows its a lie . and AMD uses lies rather well as recent history shows.

But if Intel is as smart and innovative as you imply in the majority of your posts, then surely they could have deftly outmaneuvered the underhanded actions of a slower dumber competitor like AMD, yes?

So how is it then that they have come to find themselves in the current quagmire?

When the 120 IQ kid allows themselves to get sucker punched by the 80 IQ special needs child you really got to wonder what good it did for god to put those smarts into the 120 IQ child, as the end result is they could have been just as dumb as the 70 IQ kid who gets sucker punched too and there would have been no difference in the outcome...

You are only as smart as your actions betray you to be, and right now Intel looks destined to be getting an in-class assistant soon to help them understand what the teacher is trying to tell them...

 

[Nemesis 1]

Processors = fabs . You can have the best tech in the world, If ya only have 1 fab , your going to lose to a = or < product based off of fab capicity. Or do you think CEO's of other companies should hang success on the promise we may be able to deliver product depending on demand . Or the promise that we can deliver , If Intel is guilty so is everone else who went along with good business practices. Also if the fact that coupons and rebates hurt the consumer please show me. We also seen pricies when AMD had performance lead. All they had to do was lower pricies and add capicity but they moved to slowly. Its that simple .

 

[taltamir]

i am more interested in intels claim that the comission is not providing them enough information about the nature of the accusations to mount any defense.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Processors = fabs . You can have the best tech in the world, If ya only have 1 fab , your going to lose to a = or < product based off of fab capicity. Or do you think CEO's of other companies should hang success on the promise we may be able to deliver product depending on demand . Or the promise that we can deliver , If Intel is guilty so is everone else who went along with good business practices. Also if the fact that coupons and rebates hurt the consumer please show me. We also seen pricies when AMD had performance lead. All they had to do was lower pricies and add capicity but they moved to slowly. Its that simple .

Nemesis you are arguing the validity of Intel's business model at the 10k-ft level, the details of which I have no qualms over given the few informations I know about (could be mountains still I don't know abou though)...however I am arguing that at a higher level of business structure and operating viewpoint - say the 50k-ft level - someone should have had the intelligence to foresee this potential outcome and implemented counter-measures long before it blossomed to this point.

Particularly given that Intel has a prime example of someone else who messed with the bull and got the horns - i.e. microsoft.

 

[taltamir]

To give a DUI analogy...
idontcare is saying intel should have known that skipping the court hearing will not go well for it.
and you are responding with "but they had no reason to drink alcohol"

Their innocence or guilt is irrelevant to what idontcare is saying.

 

[Denithor]

If you can't beat 'em, sue 'em.

Hadn't realized that mentality had taken off in the EU as to the same degree as here in the US.

 

[Colt45]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1


The whole EU thing is a Bluff. Look at a world map, The EU is screwed and they know it. Thats why they want trade agreements that favor them . The EU is a small piss ant organization in position of nukes . Thats scary. Considering Hitler and the tiny whinney General who thought he could. I trust the Iranians more than the EU. LOK at them . Natyral resources depleted. Limited agriculeral are they. There A third world country that hasn't relized it yet. Or maybe thats what this is all about . We should back away from the EU . They really have nothing to offer us in return. Its the Russians and the east we want to do business with . Europe is dead. Thet have nothing of value. There just users of other people resources. Much of the Gold they have was stolen from the west and east including Russia. There a useless bunch . They served their purpose in the scope of time . But there time has fast as being a world power. Thats exactly why the want a 1 world government.

Wow. Did that actually just happen?

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Colt45

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1


The whole EU thing is a Bluff. Look at a world map, The EU is screwed and they know it. Thats why they want trade agreements that favor them . The EU is a small piss ant organization in position of nukes . Thats scary. Considering Hitler and the tiny whinney General who thought he could. I trust the Iranians more than the EU. LOK at them . Natyral resources depleted. Limited agriculeral are they. There A third world country that hasn't relized it yet. Or maybe thats what this is all about . We should back away from the EU . They really have nothing to offer us in return. Its the Russians and the east we want to do business with . Europe is dead. Thet have nothing of value. There just users of other people resources. Much of the Gold they have was stolen from the west and east including Russia. There a useless bunch . They served their purpose in the scope of time . But there time has fast as being a world power. Thats exactly why the want a 1 world government.

Wow. Did that actually just happen?

That's our nemesis. Crazy as ever. You can see we are all surprised by it given the plethora of outcry.

You have to assume Nemesis is schizophrenic and he changes personalities so fast it actually occurs during his posts. So you just choose which nemesis you want to talk with when you quote and reply.

Want to talk with the nemesis who is interested in Inel farking the world? Quote those two sentences and reply.

Want to talk with the nemesis who blames IBM employees for the holocaust, the Rothschild's for the banking collapse, or casts all Europeans as resource sucking maggots? Quote and talk with the nemesis who posts on those topics (in the same posts as he talks about CPU's and water-cooling gear).

There's an unending supply of crazy there just waiting to be tapped and engaged. I (we) all seem to do our best to keep it on-topic and having something to do with semiconductors. We aren't always successful Every family has that one really crazy uncle, but once you get to accustomed to them you kinda enjoy the off-the-wall unpredictability they bring to the family reunions. (and you just ignore the really ridiculous comments, "grandpa you CAN'T say that stuff in public anymore!")

Colt45 meet Nemesis 1, our crazy uncle who designs uber fast computers but calls them turtles for some reason...

 

[taltamir]

schizophrenic means you see and hear and otherwise sense things that aren't there... what you described is "multiple identity disorder" aka "dissociative identity disorder". Hollywood keeps on mixing those up though.

 

[Idontcare]

Actually I said he "is schizophrenic and he changes personalities"...meaning both, was not trying to equate schizophrenic = multiple personality. But its good to have that clarified, wouldn't want a misdiagnosis by a non-qualified medical person such as myself be allowed to stand unchallenged :laugh:

Now tell me if this following definition doesn't sound like our crazy uncle:

(no offense Nemesis, and I say this with all due respect )

schizophrenic

Also called dementia praecox. a severe mental disorder characterized by some, but not necessarily all, of the following features: emotional blunting, intellectual deterioration, social isolation, disorganized speech and behavior, delusions, and hallucinations.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/schizophrenic

I'm not sure about the hallucinations, but I'm pretty sure we've witnessed all the other "features" in a few cherry posts this past year :laugh:

 

[brencat]

Originally posted by: Idontcare
That's our nemesis. Crazy as ever. You can see we are all surprised by it given the plethora of outcry.

You have to assume Nemesis is schizophrenic and he changes personalities so fast it actually occurs during his posts. So you just choose which nemesis you want to talk with when you quote and reply.

Want to talk with the nemesis who is interested in Inel farking the world? Quote those two sentences and reply.

Want to talk with the nemesis who blames IBM employees for the holocaust, the Rothschild's for the banking collapse, or casts all Europeans as resource sucking maggots? Quote and talk with the nemesis who posts on those topics (in the same posts as he talks about CPU's and water-cooling gear).

There's an unending supply of crazy there just waiting to be tapped and engaged. I (we) all seem to do our best to keep it on-topic and having something to do with semiconductors. We aren't always successful Every family has that one really crazy uncle, but once you get to accustomed to them you kinda enjoy the off-the-wall unpredictability they bring to the family reunions. (and you just ignore the really ridiculous comments, "grandpa you CAN'T say that stuff in public anymore!")

Colt45 meet Nemesis 1, our crazy uncle who designs uber fast computers but calls them turtles for some reason...

:laugh:

Nomination for response of the year! Still LMFAO!

:laugh:

 

[Arkaign]

This thread delivers.

... totally

----- like really did you know that making posts like this is a PITA. ?

i really don't know

... how they post this way.