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Whats this? Are we beginning to win the War on Terror?......

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Interesting. I wonder what the feelings among the Islamic communities are in the Middle East. Hard to tell from just 1 news article.

http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=2234582005]Article[/url]

Al-Qaeda on defensive as bombs begin to backfire
IAN MATHER DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT

AFTER years of al-Qaeda terror attacks in which thousands have been killed, many of them Muslims - the people they wish to recruit - voices of dissent are starting to be heard in the Middle East.

As moderate Muslims dare to protest at daily death tolls, even the prospect of one of Osama bin Laden's most feared cohorts, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, being handed over is being discussed.

Faced with the unprecedented outburst of fury among Muslims over its latest atrocity, al-Qaeda's concern about reaction in the Middle East was evident last week when it came the closest yet to an apology.

It offered an "explanation" for one of worst attacks to hit Jordan in modern history, in which suicide bombers turned wedding parties into scenes of destruction, killing at least 60 people and injuring 96 at international hotels in Amman.

At first al-Qaeda announced that "a group of our best lions" had carried out the attacks to punish Jordan for supporting "the Jews and Crusaders".

Then late at night it posted a second statement on the internet "to explain to Muslims part of the reason the holy warriors targeted these dens." It said it had ordered the suicide attacks on the hotels "only after becoming confident that they were centres for launching war on Islam and supporting the Crusaders' presence in Iraq and the Arab peninsula and the presence of the Jews on the land of Palestine."

A third statement on Friday also had a defensive tone. It said the bombers were four Iraqis, who had chosen the hotels "after a month of surveillance and information gathering".

Al-Qaeda's volte-face was caused by an unprecedented emotional outpouring of anger against the terrorist organisation in Jordan. On Thursday thousands of Jordanians protested across the country to denounce the head of the al-Qaeda terrorist group in Iraq, Zarqawi, America's most wanted enemy. They marched through Amman chanting: "Burn in hell, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi!"

There were even larger demonstrations on Friday after the weekly midday mosque sermons in Amman and at a mass funeral for victims. "We came to support our nation and our unity," said Ibrahim Haniya, 22, who marched with a group of friends. "These bombers didn't differentiate between Muslims, Christians or Jews. They were against the world."

"The country is experiencing solidarity," said Mustafa Hamarneh, director of the Centre for Strategic Studies in Amman. "On the TV, on the radio, everyone is condemning the attacks in the strongest terms, including the Muslim Brotherhood, to show their solidarity with the rest of the population."

Diplomats say a key question is whether al-Qaeda has over-reached itself. "They have clearly been stung by the reaction on the streets in Jordan," said one diplomat with knowledge of the region.

"Until now they have been impervious to the deaths of ordinary Muslims. This time, the fact that they savaged two wedding parties was bad enough. But even worse is the fact that among the dead were Palestinians. Palestinians not only make up the majority of the population of Jordan, but they have iconic status in the Arab world, where they are seen as victims of Israel."

An immediate result of the Jordan attacks may be a split between al-Qaeda and Palestinian militants, he said, adding that it was significant that Palestinians in Gaza had moved immediately to put daylight between themselves and al-Qaeda.

Nafez Azzam, of the Islamic Jihad group, said: "We condemn the style, the random killings. We condemn the killing of innocents anywhere regardless of belief and religion."

Hamas urged al-Qaeda to limit itself to striking against the US in Iraq and to avoid killing Arabs and Muslims.

"Such condemned bombings will be at the expense of Iraqi and Palestinian causes," said Hamas spokesman Mushir al-Masri.

Al-Qaeda's 'explanation' of its attacks in Jordan was its second within days. Last week two Indonesians arrested over the bombing of the Marriott Hotel in Jakarta in August, which killed 12, also expressed remorse in the face of a huge wave of popular revulsion.

Significantly, one of them said sorry not only to the victims and their relatives, but to other Muslims. The man, known as Tohir, whom police say is a member of Jemaah Islamiyah, the South-east Asian branch of al-Qaeda, said on television: "I apologise to families of the victims sincerely and to the Muslim community, who have felt the slander and negative impact of my actions."

A Western intelligence official said: "The bombings in Amman will do a lot of damage to the reputation of al-Qaeda. Until now al-Qaeda has had some success. Many Muslims have been alienated from the US because of the invasion of Iraq and its support for Israel. The idea of violent jihad has spread to parts of the world far from Iraq, and there is even talk of a global Islamist insurgency.

"But there is evidence of a backlash. Most of the bombings attributed to al-Qaeda kill far more Muslims than Westerners, and it will not be able to carry the bulk of Arab opinion with it when so many Muslims are dying as a result of its activities."

The aim of al-Qaeda is to drive the Americans and other "Crusaders" from Muslim lands and overthrow governments such as those of Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Turkey which it sees as lackeys of the West, and replace them with umma, a community which would follow the 'pure' brand of Islam.

However, anti-Americanism has not been translated into the collapse of any of these governments.

Even in Iraq al-Qaeda may have overreached itself, according to Eric Margolis, author of War at the Top of the World: the Struggle for Afghanistan, Kashmir and Tibet. "I think it remarkable that Zarqawi has not been caught yet. But I think it's even more likely that he will soon be either caught or betrayed, possibly by his own people.

"In Iraq there's a lot of anger and fury at Zarqawi, even among the Iraqi resistance forces who are fighting the Americans. They say that Zarqawi is polluting and defaming their struggle by terrorist attacks, which are just brutal and bloodletting, and giving them a bad name."
 
Still no blanket Fatwa from all of the leading Muslim clerics/Leaders in the World condemning without reservation terrorist actions that target innocent civilians.
 
Originally posted by: arsbanned
Still no blanket Fatwa from all of the leading Muslim clerics/Leaders in the World condemning without reservation terrorist actions that target innocent civilians.

You have to start somewhere though.
 
I think it is possible that moderate Muslims are becoming annoyed with the extremists, to the point where public support for Osama and his type will start to go away. I hope this is true, as it would represent a positive step forward. But I don't see how this has anything to do with "us" winning the war on terror. If anything, it's the Muslims who are going to win it. And I don't think we've done an especially good job to help them along. I'm happy this is happening, but I don't think we're in a position to start claiming credit.
 
Originally posted by: Agnostos Insania
Interesting article, but it really has little to do with anything this administration has done.

There was no outside pressure on the Middle East, therefore the extremists were free to carry out their attacks on our "home turf" so to speak.
Now that we have taken the war to them on their ground, the collateral casualities are now their own people....ie....Muslims.

In the past, people in Muslim countries would watch the news and hear about an attack in Spain or Britain or America (or on their interests) and hear about the innocents who were killed and not care, its just more dead Westerners. Now, those other casualities are their own people.

By taking the War on Terror to them, they get a real life wakeup call to what the extremists are doing. Not of course that there was ever any shortage of violence in the Middle East to begin with.......
 
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Agnostos Insania
Interesting article, but it really has little to do with anything this administration has done.

There was no outside pressure on the Middle East, therefore the extremists were free to carry out their attacks on our "home turf" so to speak.
Now that we have taken the war to them on their ground, the collateral casualities are now their own people....ie....Muslims.

In the past, people in Muslim countries would watch the news and hear about an attack in Spain or Britain or America (or on their interests) and hear about the innocents who were killed and not care, its just more dead Westerners. Now, those other casualities are their own people.

By taking the War on Terror to them, they get a real life wakeup call to what the extremists are doing. Not of course that there was ever any shortage of violence in the Middle East to begin with.......

That would make sense if the attacks on Muslims in IRAQ was a rallying point for moderate Muslims. Strangely, that does not seem to be the case. I certainly don't understand it either, but I think our presence is hurting our cause as much as it is helping. Your logic does make some sense to me at least, but I wonder if the realization of the problems with extremists is really linked to the attacks or if they are the straw that broke the camel's back.
 
Originally posted by: Specop 007
In the past, people in Muslim countries would watch the news and hear about an attack in Spain or Britain or America (or on their interests) and hear about the innocents who were killed and not care, its just more dead Westerners. Now, those other casualities are their own people.

So the administration grossly misreading the Iraq "threat" and poorly managing the campaign, which created home-grown terrorists instead of America-lovers (as predicted) is a victory for us? I guess that COULD be a Plan B, but I don't think it's a good thing.
 
Originally posted by: mOeeOm
Originally posted by: totalcommand
As long as Osama is out there, I will never think we're winning against terrorism.

He only exists as long as people believe he exists.

Yup we didn't kill him and martyrize him, so he slipped into the shadows leaving a legend.
 
good stuff, but maybe bush making iraq the battleground has contributed to this? after all we had to have muslim allies, and it is attacks o nthem that are enraging the muslim community
 
Originally posted by: mOeeOm
Originally posted by: totalcommand
As long as Osama is out there, I will never think we're winning against terrorism.

He only exists as long as people believe he exists.

Looks like Muslims are starting to stand up. If they continue to do that, they will fix the problems in the ME and the world can rest in peace again!

 
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: mOeeOm
Originally posted by: totalcommand
As long as Osama is out there, I will never think we're winning against terrorism.

He only exists as long as people believe he exists.

Looks like Muslims are starting to stand up. If they continue to do that, they will fix the problems in the ME and the world can rest in peace again!
don't fool, yourslef, the world has never been at peace, and when it comes down to it, this is a relatively peaceful time. Of course it would definately be a further step in the right direction :thumbsup:
 
Sounds a little too optimistic. I don't think anything the US has doen in the last three years has undermined AQs recruiting base on bit... if anything we're adding fuel to the fire.

That being said the "war" on terror is not a winnable war. We will not sign a peace treaty and end the conflict. To think the world will ever be safe is simply nieve. We will always have those who dislike America and they will continue to try and hurt us, nomatter what we do. The best we can hope for is to limit their number by reducing global poverty, acting less unilaterally, and only resorting to force when truly necessary. Perhaps if we begin to gain some of thei respect we will find our own security situation improving.

But don't ever think the "war" on terror will be over.
 
The average terrorist is finally realizing that they are doing these attacks for no reason.

Exactly...

So long as they had a clear objective and a possibility of victory, they were happy to go to their maker. The goal is now far less clear, and they now know that they cannot win even in the immediate future, so they are questioning why.
 
War is the admission of a lack of faith. The US invaded Iraq because our leaders, the Neocons, had no faith in what America stands for. They did not trust in the concept of truth justice and a rule of law. They did not believe that other people are like us. They were superior to everybody else and knew that only by force could their better ideas, military power make right, be imposed.

All people everywhere were created in the image of God and long inwardly for justice. Out of that divine spark came our Declaration and Constitution that there are rights that each of us is automatically born with. Every soul feels this and longs for that expression.

Nothing can stand before the Will of God and it is God's will each soul longs to see. No person country of nation can be defeated that acts in accordance to the will of God and all America had to do in the ME was to be just and true and lead by example. Every birth of a child renews the will of God. Truth will out and express itself. It always has and always will. But we have no faith.

All war is a war of ideals and those ideals that accord with the human soul will win. He who knows who he is knows everything.
 
Originally posted by: maluckey
The average terrorist is finally realizing that they are doing these attacks for no reason.

Exactly...

So long as they had a clear objective and a possibility of victory, they were happy to go to their maker. The goal is now far less clear, and they now know that they cannot win even in the immediate future, so they are questioning why.

Religious terrorists call to war in the ME was to get westerners (ie. christians) out of muslim land--this has been the cry all along. There will always be religious fundies, thus there will always be religious terrorists. There is no "war" to win.
 
They have been at war with themselves as well, and have been at war for over a thousand years. They seem to use Christians and the West as an excuse. Without the Christians they war with each other, hence the Iraq-Iran war in recent history. Granted Iranians are Persian, but they will do in a pinch when no westerners are around.
 
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