What's the value added in for-profit health care insurance?

[PokerGuy]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Phokus: Canada is not the US, and the US is not Canada. You are comparing apples to oranges. Canada does not have the annual influx of immigrants like the US, and it simply doesn't have the same level of care that the US has. When was the last time you heard of people from the US heading to Canada because the waiting list was too long in the US? Not to mention, Canada keeps drug costs down by forcing prices down and letting other consumers (ie, the US consumers) bear the costs of R&D for drugs.

Some of you guys simply don't have a clue how insurance actually works, especially health insurance. You're missing the concept of insurance and service.

I haven't heard of any middle class Canadians coming down here but the rich ones can do whatever they want. Its part of being rich!

Actually, I personally know middle class Canadians that have come to the US for elective surgery. On the other hand, a significant number of Americans have no insurance etc. There is no perfect systen, just tradeoffs.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Phokus: Canada is not the US, and the US is not Canada. You are comparing apples to oranges. Canada does not have the annual influx of immigrants like the US, and it simply doesn't have the same level of care that the US has. When was the last time you heard of people from the US heading to Canada because the waiting list was too long in the US? Not to mention, Canada keeps drug costs down by forcing prices down and letting other consumers (ie, the US consumers) bear the costs of R&D for drugs.

Some of you guys simply don't have a clue how insurance actually works, especially health insurance. You're missing the concept of insurance and service.

I haven't heard of any middle class Canadians coming down here but the rich ones can do whatever they want. Its part of being rich!

Actually, I personally know middle class Canadians that have come to the US for elective surgery. On the other hand, a significant number of Americans have no insurance etc. There is no perfect systen, just tradeoffs.

Elective surgery as in plastic surgery?

 

[PokerGuy]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: PokerGuy

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Phokus: Canada is not the US, and the US is not Canada. You are comparing apples to oranges. Canada does not have the annual influx of immigrants like the US, and it simply doesn't have the same level of care that the US has. When was the last time you heard of people from the US heading to Canada because the waiting list was too long in the US? Not to mention, Canada keeps drug costs down by forcing prices down and letting other consumers (ie, the US consumers) bear the costs of R&D for drugs.

Some of you guys simply don't have a clue how insurance actually works, especially health insurance. You're missing the concept of insurance and service.

I haven't heard of any middle class Canadians coming down here but the rich ones can do whatever they want. Its part of being rich!

Actually, I personally know middle class Canadians that have come to the US for elective surgery. On the other hand, a significant number of Americans have no insurance etc. There is no perfect systen, just tradeoffs.

Elective surgery as in plastic surgery?

No, elective surgery can be any kind of surgery that's not an emergency requirement. When there's a shortage of personnel/locations/equipment etc, you get long delays for anything that's not considered "emergency". One guy I know had to get on a very long waiting list to get cataract surgery. It's not "emergency", but being able to see sure is nice, so he came over here and had it done quickly. His wife had to have hip replacement surgery done. Same scenario. She was in pain and was going to have to wait a long time.... so he had it done here. That's what you get when you ration health care the way Canada does. I'll say it again, there is no perfect system, just tradeoffs.

 

[trooper11]

I agree that our system isnt perfect, I just dont see how a government run system would be anymore perfect.


Look at how medicare has gone down the tubes, its nearing the tipping point itself and then we want to model UHC around that? As it is, it looks like the only way to save Medicare is to raise taxes in some form.... Its just not the right system either.


The fact is there is some greed in every market, the goal should be to manage that as much as possible. I still think the private sector can work, but it takes alot of effort to weed out the bad apples that might affect the outcome.

At the bottom of all of this is the goal of every American having health insurance, but why does that have to mean they change the entire system? To me, if your so in favor of the government running it, let them offer health care to those that cannot afford their own and leave the rest of the market to the private sector. I see nothing that gives me confidence in the government running health care for everyone effectively.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: trooper11
I agree that our system isnt perfect, I just dont see how a government run system would be anymore perfect.


Look at how medicare has gone down the tubes, its nearing the tipping point itself and then we want to model UHC around that? As it is, it looks like the only way to save Medicare is to raise taxes in some form.... Its just not the right system either.


The fact is there is some greed in every market, the goal should be to manage that as much as possible. I still think the private sector can work, but it takes a lot of effort to weed out the bad apples that might affect the outcome.

At the bottom of all of this is the goal of every American having health insurance, but why does that have to mean they change the entire system? To me, if your so in favor of the government running it, let them offer health care to those that cannot afford their own and leave the rest of the market to the private sector. I see nothing that gives me confidence in the government running health care for everyone effectively.

not to mention that if people no longer need health insurance because we have a socialized system, be prepared to watch your car, home owners, renters and any other insurance cost go up. As well as any good you purchase because EVERYONE will pay higher rates on anything they insure and will pass it on to the consumer....so we are going to pay one way or another.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy
No, elective surgery can be any kind of surgery that's not an emergency requirement. When there's a shortage of personnel/locations/equipment etc, you get long delays for anything that's not considered "emergency". One guy I know had to get on a very long waiting list to get cataract surgery. It's not "emergency", but being able to see sure is nice, so he came over here and had it done quickly. His wife had to have hip replacement surgery done. Same scenario. She was in pain and was going to have to wait a long time.... so he had it done here. That's what you get when you ration health care the way Canada does. I'll say it again, there is no perfect system, just tradeoffs.

IMHO, this is a legitimate role for private insurance in a Single Payer environment. Those with the means could pay extra for priority service for these necessary but non-critical procedures. People opting out for the priority queue would shorten the queue for those without means. Private insurance could then compete as they do now on choices of specialists, but couldn't hold people over the barrel for coverage. Win. Win. Win.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: trooper11
I agree that our system isnt perfect, I just dont see how a government run system would be anymore perfect.


Look at how medicare has gone down the tubes, its nearing the tipping point itself and then we want to model UHC around that? As it is, it looks like the only way to save Medicare is to raise taxes in some form.... Its just not the right system either.


The fact is there is some greed in every market, the goal should be to manage that as much as possible. I still think the private sector can work, but it takes a lot of effort to weed out the bad apples that might affect the outcome.

At the bottom of all of this is the goal of every American having health insurance, but why does that have to mean they change the entire system? To me, if your so in favor of the government running it, let them offer health care to those that cannot afford their own and leave the rest of the market to the private sector. I see nothing that gives me confidence in the government running health care for everyone effectively.

not to mention that if people no longer need health insurance because we have a socialized system, be prepared to watch your car, home owners, renters and any other insurance cost go up. As well as any good you purchase because EVERYONE will pay higher rates on anything they insure and will pass it on to the consumer....so we are going to pay one way or another.

If we have UHC, why would that make other forms of insurance cost more? Why would the costs be higher than what we have now where private group health insurance is built into the purchase price of all products?

 

[Mxylplyx]

I dont believe the insurance/payment side of healthcare jives with our moral obligation to care for the sick, and should be done away with in favor of a single payer pool, with private providers competing for those dollars. I think competition on the provider side has put America at the forefront of medical advancement, and it should stay that way.