What's the relationship between the height of something in a hollow hemisphere...

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
10
81
I'm trying to find the rate at which the height of a liquid decreases in a hemispherical bowl (r = 30cm) when the height of the liquid is 15 cm...

I get dr/dt = -250cm^3/(pi*r^2 min), but I don't see how that has anything to do with the question. :(
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
10
81
Maybe what I'm looking for is how to find the volume of the liquid in a sphere at any given height, h <= diameter...
 

BigPoppa

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,930
0
0
Assuming the bowl is in the shape of a U:

Volume of a sphere = 1/3(pi)(r)^3.
Volume of a hemisphere = 1/6(pi)(r)^3.
Radius liquid = height of liquid, ergo r = h.

And my mind just went blank. Related rates used to be my friend.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
10
81
Nah, the radius of the liquid does not = the height of the liquid.

Besides, the formula for the volume of a sphere is 4/3, not 1/3. :D
 

BigPoppa

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,930
0
0
Ahh crap, thats right. The derivative of the area = the surface area. 4/3(pi)r^3 -> 4pi(r)^2. Is the bowl not a perfect sphere? If it is, the radius of the liquid has to be the same as the height of the liquid. If not, we kind of need an equation for the shape of the bowl.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
10
81
Well, imagine a bowl with water in it. The body of water is not a sphere, or a hemisphere, or a cone or cylinder or whatever. It's a section of a sphere. Now how can I use the height of that water to find its volume?
 

BigPoppa

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,930
0
0
Originally posted by: Howard
Well, imagine a bowl with water in it. The body of water is not a sphere, or a hemisphere, or a cone or cylinder or whatever. It's a section of a sphere. Now how can I use the height of that water to find its volume?

How can the body of water be anything BUT a perfect hemisphere? In relation the bowl it is not, however. I believe I just contradicted myself. Lemme think on this some more.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
10
81
Originally posted by: BigPoppa
Originally posted by: Howard
Well, imagine a bowl with water in it. The body of water is not a sphere, or a hemisphere, or a cone or cylinder or whatever. It's a section of a sphere. Now how can I use the height of that water to find its volume?

How can the body of water be anything BUT a perfect hemisphere? In relation the bowl it is not, however. I believe I just contradicted myself. Lemme think on this some more.
So are you saying a body of water in a sphere, no matter th eheight, is a perfect hemisphere?
 

BigPoppa

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,930
0
0
It is a perfect hemisphere no matter how much water has been removed from the bowl. But, it is not a perfect hemisphere in relation to the original bowl, which is where I believe the problem of my interpretation is.
 

Crypticburn

Senior member
Jul 22, 2000
363
0
0
Originally posted by: BigPoppa
It is a perfect hemisphere no matter how much water has been removed from the bowl. But, it is not a perfect hemisphere in relation to the original bowl, which is where I believe the problem of my interpretation is.

Wrong. If the height of the water, h, is not equal to the radius of the sphere, r, containing the hemisphere, then the water does not make a hemisphere. You can think of this many ways, but here are a few simple examples:

When h = 2*r, then the water makes an entire sphere
When h = r/2, the it could be described as half a pointy tear drop


To solve this problem, the most simple approach is the method of washers.:

Step 1: Find the radius of the circle describing the top of the water (rd) at an arbitrary height (h)
Draw a circle and the vertical diameter.
Draw a horizontal line lower than the center of the circle, and define it as height h from the bottom of the circle
Draw a a radius from the center of the shpere to where the horizontal line intersects the circle.

This makes a right triangle, by the sides rd, r-h, and the hypotenuse r.

Therefore rd^2 = r^2 - (r-h)^2 = 2*r*h - h^2

Step 2: Find the area of the circle describing the top of the water (A)

A = pi * rd^2 = 2*r*h*pi - h^2*pi

Step 3: Find the volume of the water (V)

V = integral ( A*dh ) from 0 to h
V = pi*r*h^2-1/3*h^3*pi

Step 4: Verify some known solutions:

V(h) = pi*r*h^2-1/3*h^3*pi
V(2r) = pi*r*(2r)^2-1/3*(2r)^3*pi = 4/3*pi*r^3 (correct)
V(r) = pi*r*(r)^2-1/3*(r)^3*pi = 2/3*pi*r^3 (correct)
V(0) = pi*r*(0)^2-1/3*(0)^3*pi = 0 (correct)

Crypticburn
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
10
81
Argh! I haven't learned integration yet!

Here's the problem in full:

Fruit punch is being ladled out of a hemispherical bowl of radius 30cm at a rate of 500cm^3/min. How fast is the level of the fruit punch falling at the time the depth (from the bottom of the sphere to the surface of the fruit punch) is 15cm?

The answer is 0.24cm/min...
 

RossGr

Diamond Member
Jan 11, 2000
3,383
1
0
A little research (CRC Stantard Math Tables) gives the volume of interest as

V= pi h^2 (3R-h)/3


You know that

dV/dt = dV/dh * dh/dt


take the derivatives and plug in your numbers.
 

RossGr

Diamond Member
Jan 11, 2000
3,383
1
0
Yes R is the radius of the sphere,

Think about it... does it make any difference if the /3 is just the one factor or all of the factors?