Discussion What's the point in what the Trump admin is doing, and how do you see it playing out?

[mikeymikec]

I'm going to try and summarise what's going on as concisely as possible:

1 - Tariffs
2 - Reneging on commitment to Ukraine and likely NATO too
3 - Likely attacks on civil rights / voting rights / immigrants
4 - Destruction of government departments and infrastructure
5 - Alignment with Russia state values

I'm personally inclined to agree with an increasingly common view being, "if Trump was a Russian asset, what would he be doing that's any different to what he's currently doing? Nothing". I think for Trump to be a Russian asset then so therefore must a majority (in terms of influence in the party) of the GQP as well in order for it to work. IMO as far as Russia is concerned, anything that destabilises the US is a good thing for Russia, so therefore there doesn't have to be a clear objective that all the Trump admin does adds up to. Chaos is good (for Russia).

Historically I've been of the opinion that many/most politicians think more about the next five minutes and little about the long term, but surely the GQP has to be thinking about where these actions will likely lead them? I'll pose a hypothetical and say that there will be no more (fair?) elections in the US, the party however still has to hold on to power in a meaningful fashion. The dictatorship would have to be a tolerable one for the majority of the people, and it doesn't matter how far gone the MAGA fanatics are, if for example they suddenly find themselves without food, shelter or water, the shit will hit the fan for the GQP very fucking fast.

It seems to be that what I've summarised is a recipe for chaos, not order of any sort. There's also a common view that the GQP is like a bunch of meth-heads pulling out the wiring of the government and stealing everything that isn't bolted down, in and out to make the fastest buck possible. But if that's what's happening then what comes after?

I would have thought that if the GQP are planning a dictatorship then the chaos and destruction they're sowing would mostly have effects that take some time to really hit the populace and even then, effects that are gradually rather than suddenly felt. Points 1 and 3 IMO are points that clearly would be suddenly felt (particularly the rounding up of immigrants).

The weirdest thing that I find myself thinking about this whole situation is that it reads like a cautionary tale.

Thoughts?

 

[RalphTheCow]

It is starting to seem to me like we actually have a rogue and bat-shit crazy president. The GQP needs to get some balls and impeach him immediately.

 

[fskimospy]

I think he (AT A MINIMUM) has a strong personal affinity for Russia and is happy to advance their interests but I think a good bit of the rest is some sort of narcissistic mania.

He (correctly) realizes that he was facing prison and narrowly escaped. Not just narrowly escaped by not going to prison but he became president instead. I think he probably feels exulted and invincible and is like 'fuck it, time for the US to finally flex its muscles'. I think he wants some sort of legacy in territory or something he can name TrumpLand or something.

 

[WelshBloke]

The russian plant is the only thing that makes sense but you don't get to do all this alone (even if you are the POTUS).
The thing that confuses me is the large amounts of people who are actively supporting this. It's bizarre.
I just don't understand how anyone can look at everything he's done and go "yeah, that's just what I wanted my political leader to do"!

 

[RalphTheCow]

E

The russian plant is the only thing that makes sense but you don't get to do all this alone (even if you are the POTUS).
The thing that confuses me is the large amounts of people who are actively supporting this. It's bizarre.
I just don't understand how anyone can look at everything he's done and go "yeah, that's just what I wanted my political leader to do"!

Many of them HAVE to be as mortified as the rest of us.

 

[Roger Wilco]

The russian plant is the only thing that makes sense but you don't get to do all this alone (even if you are the POTUS).
The thing that confuses me is the large amounts of people who are actively supporting this. It's bizarre.
I just don't understand how anyone can look at everything he's done and go "yeah, that's just what I wanted my political leader to do"!

Many of them won’t care until it affects them personally. Many others are full-blown death cultists and death via Trump is the ideal way to go for them.

 

[Udgnim]

The russian plant is the only thing that makes sense but you don't get to do all this alone (even if you are the POTUS).
The thing that confuses me is the large amounts of people who are actively supporting this. It's bizarre.
I just don't understand how anyone can look at everything he's done and go "yeah, that's just what I wanted my political leader to do"!

party over country and they made a deal with the devil via Trump's cult of personality

 

[APU_Fusion]

Many of them won’t care until it affects them personally. Many others are full-blown death cultists and death via Trump is the ideal way to go for them.

This. Once their lolipops like Medicaid, jobs, social security, health insurance disappear along with high unemployment and inflation than they will start to notice. A third of the voting block want to see it all burn down. They are convinced they will rise from the ashes …. Because the Christian God has blessed them as “special”.

 

[mikeymikec]

I think he (AT A MINIMUM) has a strong personal affinity for Russia and is happy to advance their interests but I think a good bit of the rest is some sort of narcissistic mania.

He (correctly) realizes that he was facing prison and narrowly escaped. Not just narrowly escaped by not going to prison but he became president instead. I think he probably feels exulted and invincible and is like 'fuck it, time for the US to finally flex its muscles'. I think he wants some sort of legacy in territory or something he can name TrumpLand or something.

It's one thing for him to be surfing some egotistical high, but what about the rest of his party?

 

[WelshBloke]

Many of them won’t care until it affects them personally. Many others are full-blown death cultists and death via Trump is the ideal way to go for them.

But surely they can see that this is going to affect them!?
You can't crater the US economy, piss off all your trading partners, lose your global soft power, erode citizens civil rights, [honestly it's too depressing to list everything so mentally add everything else], and not expect it to affect everyone in the US!

 

[brycejones]

It's one thing for him to be surfing some egotistical high, but what about the rest of his party?

Scared shitless of a primary opponent.

 

[WelshBloke]

Scared shitless of a primary opponent.

Do US right wing politicians not just get cushy jobs as "business advisors" when they leave politics? That's how it works everywhere else.
That has to be better than trying to defend Trumps policies and character every day!

 

[BoomerD]

This. Once their lolipops like Medicaid, jobs, social security, health insurance disappear along with high unemployment and inflation than they will start to notice. A third of the voting block want to see it all burn down. They are convinced they will rise from the ashes …. Because the Christian God has blessed them as “special”.

As long as they own the libs…and men are banned from women’s bathrooms and sports…the rest doesn’t matter.

 

[mikeymikec]

Do US right wing politicians not just get cushy jobs as "business advisors" when they leave politics? That's how it works everywhere else.
That has to be better than trying to defend Trumps policies and character every day!

Do many "yes men" go on to get such jobs? Surely a politician would have to have been seen as someone with their finger on the pulse of a technical topic (e.g. the middle east, the economy, etc).

The other type of politician who might get such a job is one who's been a puppet for that corporation's interests and is now getting a nice little retirement package (in say the form of a workless job).

 

[dank69]

I'm going to try and summarise what's going on as concisely as possible:

1 - Tariffs
2 - Reneging on commitment to Ukraine and likely NATO too
3 - Likely attacks on civil rights / voting rights / immigrants
4 - Destruction of government departments and infrastructure
5 - Alignment with Russia state values

I'm personally inclined to agree with an increasingly common view being, "if Trump was a Russian asset, what would he be doing that's any different to what he's currently doing? Nothing". I think for Trump to be a Russian asset then so therefore must a majority (in terms of influence in the party) of the GQP as well in order for it to work. IMO as far as Russia is concerned, anything that destabilises the US is a good thing for Russia, so therefore there doesn't have to be a clear objective that all the Trump admin does adds up to. Chaos is good (for Russia).

Yes I tend to attribute a lot of this to ignorance rather than malice. Trump gets most of his "information" from Fox News. He lets the yes-men he appointed do whatever they want and lets Fox News spin it back to him about how great it all is, and why everything that isn't good is because of Democrats. When something is going so bad that even Fox News can't control the narrative, he reverses if it won't cause backlash amongst the base (rehire nuclear defense guys or air traffic controllers), or delays if it will cause backlash (tariffs). It's all reactionary and it's always been reactionary. The yes-men go along or get replaced.

Historically I've been of the opinion that many/most politicians think more about the next five minutes and little about the long term, but surely the GQP has to be thinking about where these actions will likely lead them? I'll pose a hypothetical and say that there will be no more (fair?) elections in the US, the party however still has to hold on to power in a meaningful fashion. The dictatorship would have to be a tolerable one for the majority of the people, and it doesn't matter how far gone the MAGA fanatics are, if for example they suddenly find themselves without food, shelter or water, the shit will hit the fan for the GQP very fucking fast.

Yes, the billionaire class tends to forget this every few hundred years and it seems that trend will continue.

It seems to be that what I've summarised is a recipe for chaos, not order of any sort. There's also a common view that the GQP is like a bunch of meth-heads pulling out the wiring of the government and stealing everything that isn't bolted down, in and out to make the fastest buck possible. But if that's what's happening then what comes after?

This is exactly what is going on. Top to bottom every person he has selected is working overtime to benefit themselves and Trump. They got away with it last time, why wouldn't they dial it up to 11?

I would have thought that if the GQP are planning a dictatorship then the chaos and destruction they're sowing would mostly have effects that take some time to really hit the populace and even then, effects that are gradually rather than suddenly felt. Points 1 and 3 IMO are points that clearly would be suddenly felt (particularly the rounding up of immigrants).

I don't think the tariffs will happen, or if they do, one of two things will happen very quickly thereafter:
1) Reversal before too much damage is done with promises of future implementation that never comes.
2) Bedlam, and then we get to see how far down the fascist rabbit hole the GOP is willing or capable to take us.

I laid out a 1-point plan to achieve overnight domestic obedience in the conspiracy thread, but I don't think the GOP are smart enough to see it or understand its power. Any other route to dictatorship is going to be as successful as Russia's attempt to invade Ukraine.

 

[fskimospy]

Do many "yes men" go on to get such jobs? Surely a politician would have to have been seen as someone with their finger on the pulse of a technical topic (e.g. the middle east, the economy, etc).

The other type of politician who might get such a job is one who's been a puppet for that corporation's interests and is now getting a nice little retirement package (in say the form of a workless job).

It is very common for former Republican members of Congress to get cushy jobs for right wing think tanks or whatever. It is very much a thank you for doing their bidding while in office.

 

[hal2kilo]

I'm going to try and summarise what's going on as concisely as possible:

1 - Tariffs
2 - Reneging on commitment to Ukraine and likely NATO too
3 - Likely attacks on civil rights / voting rights / immigrants
4 - Destruction of government departments and infrastructure
5 - Alignment with Russia state values

I'm personally inclined to agree with an increasingly common view being, "if Trump was a Russian asset, what would he be doing that's any different to what he's currently doing? Nothing". I think for Trump to be a Russian asset then so therefore must a majority (in terms of influence in the party) of the GQP as well in order for it to work. IMO as far as Russia is concerned, anything that destabilises the US is a good thing for Russia, so therefore there doesn't have to be a clear objective that all the Trump admin does adds up to. Chaos is good (for Russia).

Historically I've been of the opinion that many/most politicians think more about the next five minutes and little about the long term, but surely the GQP has to be thinking about where these actions will likely lead them? I'll pose a hypothetical and say that there will be no more (fair?) elections in the US, the party however still has to hold on to power in a meaningful fashion. The dictatorship would have to be a tolerable one for the majority of the people, and it doesn't matter how far gone the MAGA fanatics are, if for example they suddenly find themselves without food, shelter or water, the shit will hit the fan for the GQP very fucking fast.

It seems to be that what I've summarised is a recipe for chaos, not order of any sort. There's also a common view that the GQP is like a bunch of meth-heads pulling out the wiring of the government and stealing everything that isn't bolted down, in and out to make the fastest buck possible. But if that's what's happening then what comes after?

I would have thought that if the GQP are planning a dictatorship then the chaos and destruction they're sowing would mostly have effects that take some time to really hit the populace and even then, effects that are gradually rather than suddenly felt. Points 1 and 3 IMO are points that clearly would be suddenly felt (particularly the rounding up of immigrants).

The weirdest thing that I find myself thinking about this whole situation is that it reads like a cautionary tale.

Thoughts?

Carrying out Putin's plan to utterly destroy America.

 

[nakedfrog]

One part Russian influence, one part Project 2025 (which is generally compatible with Russia's goals too). Add in swiss cheese brain and ketamine brain.

The russian plant is the only thing that makes sense but you don't get to do all this alone (even if you are the POTUS).
The thing that confuses me is the large amounts of people who are actively supporting this. It's bizarre.
I just don't understand how anyone can look at everything he's done and go "yeah, that's just what I wanted my political leader to do"!

Let's remember 7 GOP members went to Russia on July 4th, 2018 as well--ostensibly to "warn them off" meddling in mid-terms. I'm skeptical, given... you know, everything. The NRA connection, Maria Butina, Michael Flynn, mishandling of classified documents, collusion attempts...

 

[WelshBloke]

Do many "yes men" go on to get such jobs? Surely a politician would have to have been seen as someone with their finger on the pulse of a technical topic (e.g. the middle east, the economy, etc).

The other type of politician who might get such a job is one who's been a puppet for that corporation's interests and is now getting a nice little retirement package (in say the form of a workless job).

Sometimes it's a reward from past loyalty, sometimes it's because they still have contacts in government. Usually it's a bit of both.
It's not normally because they are seen as an expert in a subject!

 

[SMOGZINN]

But surely they can see that this is going to affect them!?
You can't crater the US economy, piss off all your trading partners, lose your global soft power, erode citizens civil rights, [honestly it's too depressing to list everything so mentally add everything else], and not expect it to affect everyone in the US!

Not really, they mostly get their information from Fox News and Conservative talk shows, which is straight up lieing to them.

Do US right wing politicians not just get cushy jobs as "business advisors" when they leave politics? That's how it works everywhere else.
That has to be better than trying to defend Trumps policies and character every day!

They also get virtual immunity to insider trading laws while in office. The ability to make no-risk investments with large instant ROIs is enticing.

 

[ivwshane]

The point of trumps behavior/policies is to create a government like Russia’s where loyalty is more important than function. Whether or not Trump understands that his policies behavior will ultimately destroy our government as we know it is up for debate. Either way, Russia couldn’t be happier.

To understand what type of government Trump envisions just think of how the mob works. Corruption isn’t the outcome, it’s the process.

 

[JTsyo]

I think right wing media has got to the people that are in Trump's administration. To them the biggest threat isn't Russia or China but "woke". You can see with the purge of the US government currently that's what they are focusing on. They see our current allies as woke and Russia as anti-woke. The rest of the issues take a back seat to this.

 

[fskimospy]

I think right wing media has got to the people that are in Trump's administration. To them the biggest threat isn't Russia or China but "woke". You can see with the purge of the US government currently that's what they are focusing on. They see our current allies as woke and Russia as anti-woke. The rest of the issues take a back seat to this.

Oh yes, and it's not limited to people in Trump's administration. Most Republicans are absolutely pickled in ultra right wing insanity. The sort of things that used to be reserved for your insane uncle's rants at Thanksgiving are now absolutely common things to hear Republican elected leadership say.

 

[nakedfrog]

I think right wing media has got to the people that are in Trump's administration. To them the biggest threat isn't Russia or China but "woke". You can see with the purge of the US government currently that's what they are focusing on. They see our current allies as woke and Russia as anti-woke. The rest of the issues take a back seat to this.

It's so irritating to see "woke" in actual documents coming from the White House.
It's like watching an angry toddler walking around with a loaded gun and a bunch of adults who refuse to do anything about it.