What's the deal with video cards today?

[shady28]

I don't get it.

About 2-3 years ago, I bought an FX 5900 (non ultra, non XT) for right around $180. I go to the store to look at what's new, and I find FX 5700s and FX 5200s. These cards were around back in 2003. Most of them get romped by the old GF 4200, a 4-5 year old card. Their prices haven't changed much. In the midrange, I still see 9800 Pro 128s selling for $200.

The only 'new' cards in the $200-$300 price point are the likes of the 6600GT and 6800GT, which are also now over a year old and haven't declined in price much at all.

The only difference I'm seeing in video cards today are the very high end cards, which now cost double what high end cards a few years ago cost. And the high end cards of a few years ago, are still selling for what they sold for a few years ago.

Have ATI and NVidia finally bottlenecked, so that they can't give us a faster card without charging more money?

 

[apoppin]

look in Hot Deals . . . i hjust got an x850xt which hits PE speeds for $200 after MIR . . . the 6800GS is ~$225 and also unlocks and O/C's to 6800GT + speeds . . . the 6600GT has been $85 after MIR

where have you been :Q

:roll:

 

[shady28]

Originally posted by: apoppin
look in Hot Deals . . . i hjust got an x850xt which hits PE speeds for $200 after MIR . . . the 6800GS is ~$225 and also unlocks and O/C's to 6800GT + speeds . . . the 6600GT has been $85 after MIR

??

Depending on the game you are playing, the 6800 is not much faster than the old FX 5900, and not as fast as the old top line FX 5950 Ultra

http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/VGA/Inno3D_GeForce-6800/pg3.htm

http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/VGA/Inno3D_GeForce-6800/pg5.htm

Basically it seems like, to get a good across the board boost, you need at least a 6600GT and to make it worthwhile a 6800GT.

At the same ~$180 I paid for my FX 5900 128 2+ years ago, I am really hard pressed to find something better. I think that says something.

 

[BlacKJesuS]

 

[kmmatney]

That's why you don't buy your video card from Best Buy or CompUSA. There are plenty of great cards available for low price on-line. For example, I purchases an X800GTO2 for $200. I then unlocked the pipes and overclocked it, since it uses a high performance core. It probably twice as fast as a $200 video card from a store. The X850XT is also a kick-ass card for around $200.

 

[The Sly Syl]

The reason you see old videocards that are essentially the same price as they were 2 or 3 years ago is relatively simple.

The retailers bought the cards at a price, and still want to make a profit on them. Once they have them in stock, they would much rather not lose money.

Of course, the 9800pro "mid-range" for $200 is no longer adequate with things like the 6800GS on the market.

 

[rbV5]

At the same ~$180 I paid for my FX 5900 128 2+ years ago, I am really hard pressed to find something better. I think that says something.

Your 5900 isn't nearly as good as you think it is, its a <$70 budget card these days, and $180 will buy considerably more performance than the 5900 can deliver.

 

[Matt2]

you can definately get better deals online then you can in a store.

6600GT would be far superior to that 5900 and you can find it less than $130 these days.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: shady28

Originally posted by: apoppin
look in Hot Deals . . . i hjust got an x850xt which hits PE speeds for $200 after MIR . . . the 6800GS is ~$225 and also unlocks and O/C's to 6800GT + speeds . . . the 6600GT has been $85 after MIR

??

Depending on the game you are playing, the 6800 is not much faster than the old FX 5900, and not as fast as the old top line FX 5950 Ultra

http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/VGA/Inno3D_GeForce-6800/pg3.htm

http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/VGA/Inno3D_GeForce-6800/pg5.htm

Basically it seems like, to get a good across the board boost, you need at least a 6600GT and to make it worthwhile a 6800GT.

At the same ~$180 I paid for my FX 5900 128 2+ years ago, I am really hard pressed to find something better. I think that says something.

i don't think you know too much about videocards

that 6600GT could be had for $85. You can get the performance of the 6800GT in a GS for $225 . . . and i got a brand new x850xt for $200 yesterday. . . . either of these 2 cards will eat your old card alive.

Wake up please and do some research before posting nonsense.

edited

and that 6800 is nowhere the speed of a 6800GT or x850xt

 

[Captante]

Originally posted by: shady28

Originally posted by: apoppin
look in Hot Deals . . . i hjust got an x850xt which hits PE speeds for $200 after MIR . . . the 6800GS is ~$225 and also unlocks and O/C's to 6800GT + speeds . . . the 6600GT has been $85 after MIR

??

Depending on the game you are playing, the 6800 is not much faster than the old FX 5900, and not as fast as the old top line FX 5950 Ultra

http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/VGA/Inno3D_GeForce-6800/pg3.htm

http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/VGA/Inno3D_GeForce-6800/pg5.htm

Basically it seems like, to get a good across the board boost, you need at least a 6600GT and to make it worthwhile a 6800GT.

At the same ~$180 I paid for my FX 5900 128 2+ years ago, I am really hard pressed to find something better. I think that says something.

Dude a 6800 is so much faster then any of the FX seris of cards its just silly to compare them & a 6800GT is considerably faster still... those benchmarks you linked to are not to be trusted. Take a look at Toms Hardware guide or here on AT for some more accurate impressions.
Also my personal experience replacing my 9800 Pro with a 6800GT gave me nearly double the performance in 3d & the 9800 Pro is as fast to a bit faster then your FX 5900.

 

[DrZoidberg]

that link u gave is a very old review.. anyway its quite hard to get a FX5950 ultra, i think the FX5900 is more common.

try this link
tomshardware AGP charts

a 6600gt is almost double the FX5900 fps in doom3

a plain 6800 is more than double the FX5900 in Chronicles of Riddick

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin
look in Hot Deals . . . i hjust got an x850xt which hits PE speeds for $200 after MIR . . . the 6800GS is ~$225 and also unlocks and O/C's to 6800GT + speeds . . . the 6600GT has been $85 after MIR

where have you been :Q

:roll:

The AGP GS does unlock? This is the first I'm hearing talked about as if it were past tense.
Thats great news if true.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin
look in Hot Deals . . . i hjust got an x850xt which hits PE speeds for $200 after MIR . . . the 6800GS is ~$225 and also unlocks and O/C's to 6800GT + speeds . . . the 6600GT has been $85 after MIR

where have you been :Q

:roll:

The AGP GS does unlock? This is the first I'm hearing talked about as if it were past tense.
Thats great news if true.

Where have you been?
:Q



look at that super-long "GS" thread . . . it is indeed ***CONFIRMED****

:thumbsup:

 

[RockyIII]

apoppin...Like to know where you can get 6600GT for $85.. thanks

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: RockyIII
apoppin...Like to know where you can get 6600GT for $85.. thanks

it was a Hot Deal last week and it was after MIR.

you have to stay on top of it by visiting at least twice a day . . . if i waited for my $200 [afterMIR] x850xt an extra day, i would have missed it too [now you have to actually go to a B&M MicorCenter to still get that deal].

 

[Princeofdaarkness]

man, my 850xt has been on backorder for a lil time now... went with microcenter $200 after rebate thanks for the tip.. btw anywhere I can read up on oc'ing the 850xt ? thanks sorry for asking a dif question within your thread.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Princeofdaarkness
man, my 850xt has been on backorder for a lil time now... went with microcenter $200 after rebate thanks for the tip.. btw anywhere I can read up on oc'ing the 850xt ? thanks sorry for asking a dif question within your thread.

the x850xt automatically o/c's with the included ATi tool and Overdrive [in the CCC] . . . and you can even "force" an O/C with it . . . i get just over XT-PE speeds and 6537 in 3DMarko5
:thumbsup: .

 

[shady28]

I've done quite a bit more research on this topic, and the answer isn't quite what it would seem. My complaint still stands.

The FX 5900 is slower in many of the more modern software not purely from a hardware standpoint, but rather due to lack of features supporting DX 9.0c. It is a 9.0 part, vs the GF 6x00 series being a 9.0c part.

GeForce FX 5900
Core 400 MHz
Memory 850 MHz
Bus 256-bit
Bandwidth 27.2 GB/s
Pixels per clock 8


GeForce 6600 GT
Core 500 MHz
Memory 1 GHz
Bus 128-bit
Bandwidth 16 GB/s
Pixels per clock 8


This explains why im seeing some benchmarks where an old FX5900 beats 6600GTs, and others where it gets stomped.

I don't really see this as much of an advancement. We're talking a 3 year old card that is technically superior to a new card, but for lack of a couple of features is being called 'slower'. Whatever, this looks more like smoke and mirrors than substance to me. Why is this new card, in the same price range as the 5900 was 2+ years ago, have 60% of the memory bandwidth and still process the same number of pixels per clock??

 

[Munky]

The FX cards were abysmal performers at any DX9 game. The FX5900 may have won some old benches like Quake3 against a 9800p, but in most modern games the 9800p would win, and the 6600gt is even faster than a 9800p. The FX card has 4 pixel pipes with 2 texture units each, and can do double Z/stencil ops when no color values are used. That means in certain limited cases the FX5900 can output 8 pixels per clock, but in most cases it acts like a 4 pipe card, and only 4 pixels per clock can be output. And that's just scratching the surface, the 6-series had other architectural improvements over the FX series that makes the difference even bigger.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: shady28

I've done quite a bit more research on this topic, and the answer isn't quite what it would seem. My complaint still stands.

The FX 5900 is slower in many of the more modern software not purely from a hardware standpoint, but rather due to lack of features supporting DX 9.0c. It is a 9.0 part, vs the GF 6x00 series being a 9.0c part.

GeForce FX 5900
Core 400 MHz
Memory 850 MHz
Bus 256-bit
Bandwidth 27.2 GB/s
Pixels per clock 8


GeForce 6600 GT
Core 500 MHz
Memory 1 GHz
Bus 128-bit
Bandwidth 16 GB/s
Pixels per clock 8


This explains why im seeing some benchmarks where an old FX5900 beats 6600GTs, and others where it gets stomped.

I don't really see this as much of an advancement. We're talking a 3 year old card that is technically superior to a new card, but for lack of a couple of features is being called 'slower'. Whatever, this looks more like smoke and mirrors than substance to me. Why is this new card, in the same price range as the 5900 was 2+ years ago, have 60% of the memory bandwidth and still process the same number of pixels per clock??

welcome back

wasn't the 5900 one of the 'top' cards nvidia produced?

. . . and the 6600 - introduced nearly TWO years ago [april '04] - is near the 'bottom' . . .

try comparing the new 7800 series . . . any one - with the 5900.
[and the 7900s are due next month . . . progress is real]

 

[shady28]

Originally posted by: apoppin

wasn't the 5900 one of the 'top' cards nvidia produced?

. . . and the 6600 - introduced nearly TWO years ago [april '04] - is near the 'bottom' . . .

try comparing the new 7800 series . . . any one - with the 5900.
[and the 7900s are due next month . . . progress is real]

Yes it was (5900). I wouldn't have a problem with the comparison, but the price range we are talking about is entirely different now. When I bought my Fx 5900 it was under $180. That's roughly in the average price range of a 6600GT. What I stated in my original post - that now top line cards simply *cost more* - and you can't get a whole lot better than what was around 2 years ago *at the same price*.

Yes I would agree that for *most* DX 9 games (9.0c specifically) the new cards run faster. But, the architecture is not clearly superior. Memory bandwidth of a 6600GT is much lower, and the max pixels processed per clock is the same. To get something clearly superior, you have to go to a 6800.

Relatively speaking, that's pathetic advancement compared to what we had 5 years ago. We aren't really getting more hardware performance for our money, just better support for new software features.

 

[Eureka]

Inflation?

Norm

 

[rbV5]

The FX 5900 is slower in many of the more modern software not purely from a hardware standpoint, but rather due to lack of features supporting DX 9.0c

Those would be "hardware" features actually.

At the same ~$180 I paid for my FX 5900 128 2+ years ago, I am really hard pressed to find something better. I think that says something

What it really says is that you refuse to acknowlege that that is simply untrue. $180 for the 5900 was a good deal, for the same $180 today you can get X850XT performance which dominates your card in EVERY possible way.

 

[rbV5]

To get something clearly superior, you have to go to a 6800

Which will run you maybe $20 than your $180 today for a 6800GS. How much more than $20 would you have to have ponied over 2 years ago for that performance increase?

 

[kylebisme]

http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/10/04/vga_charts_iv/page10.html

I think that pretty well says it all.