I'd just like a link or something to an explaination of sound cards. Like whats the diff between the SB 128 and the other SB models. Thanks
Whats the deal with sound cards? 128, 16, 32, live?
- Thread starter Rhodent
- Start date
Someone correct me if I am wrong (very possible that I am wrong).
I believe that the number indicates the number of simultaneous sounds running through the card. i.e. SB16 could play 16 sounds simultaneously, 32 could play 32, etc. The SB16, SB32 and SB64 were all made by Creative Labs. The SB128 uses an Ensoniq chip I believe which happened after Creative bought out ensoniq. The Live! is a whole new architecture which added support for hardware generated 3d sound and digital out.
ERJ
I believe that the number indicates the number of simultaneous sounds running through the card. i.e. SB16 could play 16 sounds simultaneously, 32 could play 32, etc. The SB16, SB32 and SB64 were all made by Creative Labs. The SB128 uses an Ensoniq chip I believe which happened after Creative bought out ensoniq. The Live! is a whole new architecture which added support for hardware generated 3d sound and digital out.
ERJ
Thanks that sounds like a pretty intelligent guess. If so though do you ever find yourself (anyone) playing more than 16 sounds at once? I mean.even if you are playing a CD which actually does have simul sounds as oppposed to mp3's which filter unheard ones. If you had IM running and maybe something else..you couldn't be talking more than 10 or a dozen? Is it wasted money?
I beleive that explanation is correct. I havent tried to count the sounds while im playing Quake 3 A but im sure there are a lot of them (background etc). I run my Live through a surround sound receiver so the Live is worth it to me. For the price (if that is an issue) go for the Live, the "Value" edition sells here in California for around $50 or less. I have nothing bad to say about the Live
i think maybe for the awe64 it might have been the number of midi instruments it could play at once but i duno
Here's the truth:
Every Creative sound card up to and including the good 'ol Sound Blaster 16 are in a different league from the current slow of the 32s, 64s, 128s and 512s - and those in turn are in a different league from the Live! family.
The first-gen cards (SB, SBpro) all process sounds at 8bit. Meaning the sound is mono and completely synthesized. The SBpro had the advantage of FM. That's the difference between the first two.
THen came the industry setting SB 16, which processed sounds at 16 bits, meaning at Stereo and was capable of CD-quality sound at 44.1 KHz. The first SB was only capable of 11.1KHz, and SBpro could do 22KHz.
All the above cards all generated their own sounds, meaning everything was created per demand. E.g., if I am a game and I ask the sound card for a particular sound of a trombone, for example, the sound card would have to generate the sound itself and build the waves from scratch.
In came the SB AWE32, which had 32 built in voices that could be used and tapped by software. This translates in better sounds, as the programmed sounds already on the soundcard were natural and were not artificially "made" by the card. Note that the "32" in the SB AWE32 meant that it has 32 built in voices, not that it works at 32 bits. All of today's cards work at 16 bit, with the exception I believe of some of the high end cards which can process 24 bit sounds. So do not confuse the "16" in the SB16 and the "32" in the AWE32 - they mean different things.
Note - after the release of the AWE32 all the SB16 models shipped with an optional port for an "Advanced Wavetable Emulation" (AWE) upgrade, meaning you could convert your SB16 into an AWE32 pretty easily.
All the current cards in the PCI range (PCI64, PCI128, PCI512) all run on the same technology as that AWE32, except that the numbers differ and dictate how many built in sounds the card has. Also, prior to the PCI series, all SB cards were ISA. That's why they named them all PCI.
The Live! family is completely different. Full with support for proffesional applications as well as full 3d sound, they are based on a different platform altoghether. They not only have built in sounds, but they also have built in sound environments to enhance these sounds.
THere - hope this answers all your questions. One of the benefits of having been a techno freak from the good 'ol days of the 286 is knowing all these things. It helps.
Every Creative sound card up to and including the good 'ol Sound Blaster 16 are in a different league from the current slow of the 32s, 64s, 128s and 512s - and those in turn are in a different league from the Live! family.
The first-gen cards (SB, SBpro) all process sounds at 8bit. Meaning the sound is mono and completely synthesized. The SBpro had the advantage of FM. That's the difference between the first two.
THen came the industry setting SB 16, which processed sounds at 16 bits, meaning at Stereo and was capable of CD-quality sound at 44.1 KHz. The first SB was only capable of 11.1KHz, and SBpro could do 22KHz.
All the above cards all generated their own sounds, meaning everything was created per demand. E.g., if I am a game and I ask the sound card for a particular sound of a trombone, for example, the sound card would have to generate the sound itself and build the waves from scratch.
In came the SB AWE32, which had 32 built in voices that could be used and tapped by software. This translates in better sounds, as the programmed sounds already on the soundcard were natural and were not artificially "made" by the card. Note that the "32" in the SB AWE32 meant that it has 32 built in voices, not that it works at 32 bits. All of today's cards work at 16 bit, with the exception I believe of some of the high end cards which can process 24 bit sounds. So do not confuse the "16" in the SB16 and the "32" in the AWE32 - they mean different things.
Note - after the release of the AWE32 all the SB16 models shipped with an optional port for an "Advanced Wavetable Emulation" (AWE) upgrade, meaning you could convert your SB16 into an AWE32 pretty easily.
All the current cards in the PCI range (PCI64, PCI128, PCI512) all run on the same technology as that AWE32, except that the numbers differ and dictate how many built in sounds the card has. Also, prior to the PCI series, all SB cards were ISA. That's why they named them all PCI.
The Live! family is completely different. Full with support for proffesional applications as well as full 3d sound, they are based on a different platform altoghether. They not only have built in sounds, but they also have built in sound environments to enhance these sounds.
THere - hope this answers all your questions. One of the benefits of having been a techno freak from the good 'ol days of the 286 is knowing all these things. It helps.
I believe that the PCI line of sound cards are actually 32 bit architecture - PCI128, 256, 512 live! etc which means they are a bit different (better) from the 16bit ISA cards. The PCI cards are generally better since they can process sound better and use less cpu time. Correct me if I am wrong.
That junior member thing forget it - I have been arounf Delphi forums for about 3 years and got fed up with the drivel and came over to see what the other forums are doing - so I am a junior member!! ahah
That junior member thing forget it - I have been arounf Delphi forums for about 3 years and got fed up with the drivel and came over to see what the other forums are doing - so I am a junior member!! ahah
Some people in here came very close, but still inaccurate. Leave it to the sound card buff. 
The Original Soundblaster has an 11-voice yamaha 2-operator FM chip and an 8-bit digital DAC capable of 22khz mono recording/playback. Also included the 12 stereo squarewave voices of the original (failed) GAMEblaster card.
SBpro 1.0 has a 22-voice 2-operator FM chip and a DAC capable of stereo 8-bit sound @ 22khz or mono 44.1khz. Some also had Gameblaster sound.
SBpro 2.0 replaced the 2-op FM chip with the 4-op OPL3. Dropped the Gameblaster.
SB16 comes out with full 16-bit sound @ 44.1khz mono/stereo. Still has OPL3 FM. Some models begin to emerge with the WAVEblaster header, to snap on a General MIDI daughterboard.
(as an interesting note, this is the first sound card to PROPERLY work as a Roland MPU-401 MIDI controller in all software, including games.)
SB16 comes out with other models, including SCSI-2, multi-CD (with interfaces for Sony, Mitsumi, and Panasonic (its own). Some with IDE as well. There is an optional DSP on some of these boards (I forget the name- it's NOT AWE) that allowed Qsound which was kinda' neat but flopped.
SB32/AWE32. 32 no longer means "bits". It now has a hardware General MIDI synth built on the board, capable of 32-voice polyphony, in addition to SB16 digital sound. The Advanced Wave Effects make the MIDI music sound all the better, and also give the option of SoundFonts- instruments going above and beyond the hard-coded General MIDI patchset. There are still a few games out there that use SoundFonts- the best being Magic Carpet 2 (as far as I know- I hear Final Fantasy PC uses it too.) Soundfonts were stored in RAM on the card. SB32 had 0 RAM, AWE32 had 512k. Most cards (except value) let you add 2 30-pin SIMMS of either 1, 4, or 16MB amounts. I still have my pair of 4MB, although at the time, it was for my Gravis Ultrasound PnP... I moved to the AWE32 for game compatibility.
AWE64. Things get wacky here. They now have a 32-voice hardware synth from the AWE32, and an optional 32-voice software synth that sucked. (That's the synth used in the PCI-series cards.) They also removed the option to add standard 30-pin RAM and used their own proprietary modules that cost a vital organ. Other than that, it's an AWE32. The card of note is the AWE64 Gold, which had the S/PDIF interface and 4MB RAM and Gold connectors! A very nice card I wouldn't mind getting again, especially if someone has a memory module for it! Digital (WAV) sound hasn't changed since the SB16.
Ensoniq PCI, PCI 128, PCI 512, etc. All these puppies are based on the same Ensoniq chip (compatible with the Ensoniq Soundcape/SBpro for DOS, since SB16 compatibility is no longer possible in DOS for this card.) They use a software synthesis that doesn't take up much CPU time, but sounds bad for General MIDI in comparison to the ol' AWE32/64. Most people with these cards are not playing MIDI music anyways.
SB Live! A dandy of a card... has two hardware synthesizers of 32 voices each. Shares the pool of RAM allocated from the system to hold Soundfonts and has improved digital sound (because now you can stream multiple audio channels! Forgot to mention the PCI series cards can do this as well- somewhat.) MIDI music is 95% as good as the AWE32, but with HUGE soundfonts and 2x polyphony. Life is good for amateur musicians. Accelerated D3D audio. Environmental Audio (EAX) is introduced and later added to some PCI series cards too- adds neato 3D sound and audio "alteration" to make it sound like the game environment. It sounds VERY cool to be in a cave and SOUND like you're in a cave. Easy to implement, and game developers flock to it, leading the the ultimate demise of A3D which was superior for 3D sound.
All other Live! cards are only slight variations of the above.
That's not including any COMPETITORS' sound cards. The Gravis Ultrasound series were real nice for musicians... still have a couple of 'em myself.
The Original Soundblaster has an 11-voice yamaha 2-operator FM chip and an 8-bit digital DAC capable of 22khz mono recording/playback. Also included the 12 stereo squarewave voices of the original (failed) GAMEblaster card.
SBpro 1.0 has a 22-voice 2-operator FM chip and a DAC capable of stereo 8-bit sound @ 22khz or mono 44.1khz. Some also had Gameblaster sound.
SBpro 2.0 replaced the 2-op FM chip with the 4-op OPL3. Dropped the Gameblaster.
SB16 comes out with full 16-bit sound @ 44.1khz mono/stereo. Still has OPL3 FM. Some models begin to emerge with the WAVEblaster header, to snap on a General MIDI daughterboard.
(as an interesting note, this is the first sound card to PROPERLY work as a Roland MPU-401 MIDI controller in all software, including games.)
SB16 comes out with other models, including SCSI-2, multi-CD (with interfaces for Sony, Mitsumi, and Panasonic (its own). Some with IDE as well. There is an optional DSP on some of these boards (I forget the name- it's NOT AWE) that allowed Qsound which was kinda' neat but flopped.
SB32/AWE32. 32 no longer means "bits". It now has a hardware General MIDI synth built on the board, capable of 32-voice polyphony, in addition to SB16 digital sound. The Advanced Wave Effects make the MIDI music sound all the better, and also give the option of SoundFonts- instruments going above and beyond the hard-coded General MIDI patchset. There are still a few games out there that use SoundFonts- the best being Magic Carpet 2 (as far as I know- I hear Final Fantasy PC uses it too.) Soundfonts were stored in RAM on the card. SB32 had 0 RAM, AWE32 had 512k. Most cards (except value) let you add 2 30-pin SIMMS of either 1, 4, or 16MB amounts. I still have my pair of 4MB, although at the time, it was for my Gravis Ultrasound PnP... I moved to the AWE32 for game compatibility.
AWE64. Things get wacky here. They now have a 32-voice hardware synth from the AWE32, and an optional 32-voice software synth that sucked. (That's the synth used in the PCI-series cards.) They also removed the option to add standard 30-pin RAM and used their own proprietary modules that cost a vital organ. Other than that, it's an AWE32. The card of note is the AWE64 Gold, which had the S/PDIF interface and 4MB RAM and Gold connectors! A very nice card I wouldn't mind getting again, especially if someone has a memory module for it! Digital (WAV) sound hasn't changed since the SB16.
Ensoniq PCI, PCI 128, PCI 512, etc. All these puppies are based on the same Ensoniq chip (compatible with the Ensoniq Soundcape/SBpro for DOS, since SB16 compatibility is no longer possible in DOS for this card.) They use a software synthesis that doesn't take up much CPU time, but sounds bad for General MIDI in comparison to the ol' AWE32/64. Most people with these cards are not playing MIDI music anyways.
SB Live! A dandy of a card... has two hardware synthesizers of 32 voices each. Shares the pool of RAM allocated from the system to hold Soundfonts and has improved digital sound (because now you can stream multiple audio channels! Forgot to mention the PCI series cards can do this as well- somewhat.) MIDI music is 95% as good as the AWE32, but with HUGE soundfonts and 2x polyphony. Life is good for amateur musicians.
Accelerated D3D audio. Environmental Audio (EAX) is introduced and later added to some PCI series cards too- adds neato 3D sound and audio "alteration" to make it sound like the game environment. It sounds VERY cool to be in a cave and SOUND like you're in a cave. Easy to implement, and game developers flock to it, leading the the ultimate demise of A3D which was superior for 3D sound.All other Live! cards are only slight variations of the above.
That's not including any COMPETITORS' sound cards.
The Gravis Ultrasound series were real nice for musicians... still have a couple of 'em myself. I told you guys that it was very possible that I was wrong
Anyway, thanks for the explanations. I think I might have known a bit more of that but you can't blaim me for not getting it right. I was in junior high when the early sound cards came out (my excuse).
Thanks,
ERJ
Anyway, thanks for the explanations. I think I might have known a bit more of that but you can't blaim me for not getting it right. I was in junior high when the early sound cards came out (my excuse
).Thanks,
ERJ
TimeKeeper
Diamond Member
- Nov 3, 1999
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Don't know much about the Sound card, but they all apear same to me.. ?
Why?
There are limitation on my hearing..... The lowest audible frequency is around 20 Hz as we might call it "bass". The highest audible frequency is 20 kHz, BUT, is actually beyond the range of most humans.
(if you listen to a lot of loud music, you probably can't hear much beyond 15 kHz-but most dogs can hear this high pitch.
Now, let's back to how many sounds we can "hear" per second.
Although, "our" ear can respond to a stimulus which is changing up to 20,000 times per second, but "we" will NOT be able to differentiate more than 4 notes at varies frequency. (unless you are professional conductor, you may capable of up to 6 ~ 8)
What we hear is called "frequency spectrum", these are combination of sound from target source + enviromental background.
okay..okay......in other word, MORE Stimuli = More excited (only if you can block out the enviromental background, - computer fan noise, air condition noise, and next door's sunday morning's lawn mowing!!!!!!!!!
(cheap sound card w/ headphone = expensive sound card + many speakers + live next to Highway I-95)
? Why?
There are limitation on my hearing..... The lowest audible frequency is around 20 Hz as we might call it "bass". The highest audible frequency is 20 kHz, BUT, is actually beyond the range of most humans.
(if you listen to a lot of loud music, you probably can't hear much beyond 15 kHz-but most dogs can hear this high pitch.
Now, let's back to how many sounds we can "hear" per second.
Although, "our" ear can respond to a stimulus which is changing up to 20,000 times per second, but "we" will NOT be able to differentiate more than 4 notes at varies frequency. (unless you are professional conductor, you may capable of up to 6 ~ 8)
What we hear is called "frequency spectrum", these are combination of sound from target source + enviromental background.
okay..okay......in other word, MORE Stimuli = More excited (only if you can block out the enviromental background, - computer fan noise, air condition noise, and next door's sunday morning's lawn mowing!!!!!!!!!
(cheap sound card w/ headphone = expensive sound card + many speakers + live next to Highway I-95)
Good job Bluemax (hope you researched and not spent all your dough on those cards). SB live! does rock (that's a given) and I know snce I have 3 and 1 PCI128 on my 4 systems.
But like everything else we all want the best value sound possible and SBlive value is the best out there now.
But like everything else we all want the best value sound possible and SBlive value is the best out there now.
So the what's the difference between a SBlive 256 and a SBlive 512???
They still have sound font abilities yes?
They still have sound font abilities yes?
I've pretty much owned every single one of 'em. Pathetic, really- except I write a bit of music which kinda' justifies it a little.
Haven't seen a LIVE 256 and 512, only **PCI** 256 and 512. If there are Live cards of those numbers, the only thing it adds is a crappy software synthesizer capable of that amount of polyphony. It's completely useless. This is from a musician AND gamer's point of view. If you have a good hardware synth and 64 voice polyphony, you're not going to touch the crappy, CPU-intensive software synth, no matter HOW much polyphony it has.
A Live, is a Live, is a Live. Some just add 5.1 speakers or digital out, but the hardware is 99% the same.
Haven't seen a LIVE 256 and 512, only **PCI** 256 and 512. If there are Live cards of those numbers, the only thing it adds is a crappy software synthesizer capable of that amount of polyphony. It's completely useless. This is from a musician AND gamer's point of view. If you have a good hardware synth and 64 voice polyphony, you're not going to touch the crappy, CPU-intensive software synth, no matter HOW much polyphony it has.
A Live, is a Live, is a Live. Some just add 5.1 speakers or digital out, but the hardware is 99% the same.
The original SBLive touted 256 MIDI voices...that's why some places called it the SBLive 256....it even had 256 on the box. Subsequent LiveWare and driver upgrades increased the voices to 512 and then 1024. The number of MIDI voices is no longer relevant to most users, I think.
The Ensoniq chipset based soundcards PCI16, PCI32, PCI64, PCI128, are able to run EAX live the SBLive, but do so in software emulation. The CPU usage is much higher than the SBLives for these cards.
One of the major differences between the ISA and PCI cards is their ability to handle more than 2 soundstreams effectively at once. The SBLives are spec'ed to handle 32 DirectSound streams or wave streams concurrently. Try that on any of the ISA Sound Blasters and you will find that they have real problems handling more than 3.
There does exist an SB PCI 512. Unlike the other SB PCIxxx cards, this one is not based on the Ensoniq chipsets, but the EMU10K1 processor for the Live cards. Unlike the Live cards, this is designed to be a low end model. It's PCB is the same as that of the SB PCI cards, and does not support digital input and output....some models of the PCI512 even drop the rear speaker output. It CANNOT run LiveWare, but only uses SBLive drivers.
The Ensoniq chipset based soundcards PCI16, PCI32, PCI64, PCI128, are able to run EAX live the SBLive, but do so in software emulation. The CPU usage is much higher than the SBLives for these cards.
One of the major differences between the ISA and PCI cards is their ability to handle more than 2 soundstreams effectively at once. The SBLives are spec'ed to handle 32 DirectSound streams or wave streams concurrently. Try that on any of the ISA Sound Blasters and you will find that they have real problems handling more than 3.
There does exist an SB PCI 512. Unlike the other SB PCIxxx cards, this one is not based on the Ensoniq chipsets, but the EMU10K1 processor for the Live cards. Unlike the Live cards, this is designed to be a low end model. It's PCB is the same as that of the SB PCI cards, and does not support digital input and output....some models of the PCI512 even drop the rear speaker output. It CANNOT run LiveWare, but only uses SBLive drivers.
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