Whats the Big Deal w/ Oblivion?

[thatolchestnut]

So I bought Oblivion recently and gave it a shot.

First:
I like the big open world
I like the pretty graphics
I like the amount of things to do


BUT
I hate the leveling system (counter intuitive and messy)
I hate the combat system (compared to a M&B it seems surprisingly unpolished)
I hate the lack of danger in the game

I get into the game I get out of the sewers and I just start walking around. Find a wolf... then I find a bandit, go all the way up to Bruma... and find another bandit. That said, I found a number of interesting places along the way, but I'm either to low level or its locked. Whatever Ill come back later.

I start the main quest and go to Kvatch. I notice a neato oblivion gate. I go inside, and it's anything but impressive. It's a string of baddies one after the next who are anything but challenging to fight (and no handicaps aka how the difficulty slider works does not a challenge/fun game make). The atmosphere was nice, the effects were nice, the dialog was excellent, but I did not find the experience in any way climatic.

So I go online to see what the dealio is and discover that the world changes as you level up. Ok no problem Ive had the option to level for a bit and just havent choosen to level up. I gain 6-7 levels and while I noticed a few things change, the thing I noticed the most was that I was better off staying level 1 b/c apparently I was supposed to play this "open" "option oriented" game a very specific way. Oi.

Im about to just toss the game at this point, but I say w/e Ill just fix it by adjusting the difficulty and continue on. Sure the game changed, sure things were different, but now instead of being killed/danger around the corner it was again:
zzz...snore...zzz...snore.


There are some great things about Oblivion, but for such a big $$$ game it seems to leave quite a bit to be desired.

 

[MustISO]

I didn't start the main story path until I had pretty much completed everything else in the game. I like Oblivion a lot but I got really tired of the gate parts.

 

[Chriscross3234]

Try out one of the several mods that address those issues you just listed. The best ones are Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul, Martigen's Monster Mod, Fransesco's Leveled Items/Creatures.

For example, Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul drastically changes the difficulty of every creature/enemy in the game by applying set levels to certain creatures. This means that you can't just run around anywhere you want and own stuff up, certain areas will definitely be off limits until you can level up or else you will get your butt handed to you. Install this mod if you want to say goodbye to the level scaling system that vanilla Oblivion has. You WILL have to level up before you try to take on the main quest. OOO also adds in tons of additional content and makes the game a lot more challenging and enjoyable.

Look into the modding community to see what's available... Oblivion is a great game with many flaws, and the community has tons of mods to remedy that

 

[Zenoth]

You don't like the leveling, that means you'll need either Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul or Francesco's Leveled Creatures (those are modifications). And if you think there's not enough danger then you absolutely must have Martigen's Monster Mod (also a modification). Don't get me wrong, Oblivion is a great game when out-of-the-box, but the vanilla version does lack many things, however the Elder Scrolls series has ALWAYS directly depended on its community's support via modifications to maintain interest towards the game itself, or else it'd literally be quite a boring series, to be honest.

 

[I4AT]

I didn't like it either. The gates are all the exact same thing and there's like 30 of em. When I first played I power leveled all the way to like 15 by spamming spells over and over in the very beginning of the game, which screwed me. I learned my lesson and started over and discovered I could still power level my skills so long as I didn't ever go to sleep to actually level my character.

But either way it didn't really matter cause the whole game was so repetitive I couldn't make it through more than 10 hours or so. I spent a few hours murdering every citizen I could find and then perched my self on a roof and killed guards with a bow until even that got boring and I uninstalled.

 

[Billyzeke]

Glad I'm not only one who thought it was snooze city.
And how do those guards see and hear everything you do through those thick ass stone walls?

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Look, it's a Bethesda game. They always do the same thing - big, open worlds and horrifically broken gameplay mechanics. It's what they do.

The press at large is easily swayed by excellent graphics and a large open world, and Bethesda can depend on a fanbase who will rave about the game, even though the game they are loving so much is actually modded heavily to remove all, or at least most - of the suck. It's what they do.

That said, it did have a fairly decent questline for the thieve's guild with an excellent finale, and the dark brotherhood quests were simply fun. But the rest of it.....yeah, humdrum city. Big, open world, which begs for exploration, then makes exploration entirely pointless with ridiculous gameplay mechanics. Did it in Morrowind, did it in Oblivion. Par for the course.

 

[StinkyPinky]

The lame levelling kills the game. Why would the designers think monsters levelling with you a good idea? It's retarded to walk around at level 35 with full daedric armor only to bump into Jimbo the Starving Peasant with an identical set of armor, walk a bit more down the road and bump into Steve the Lone Bandit wielding a magical daedric warhammer, and then walk across a bridge to be accosted by a bandit that demands a 100 gold from you...while he's wearing 10,000 gold worth of equipment.

Great design.

 

[Dumac]

Oblivion is, in my honest opinion, annoying to the point of being unplayable out of the box. You definately HAVE to mod this game in order to actually enjoy it.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
The lame levelling kills the game. Why would the designers think monsters levelling with you a good idea? It's retarded to walk around at level 35 with full daedric armor only to bump into Jimbo the Starving Peasant with an identical set of armor, walk a bit more down the road and bump into Steve the Lone Bandit wielding a magical daedric warhammer, and then walk across a bridge to be accosted by a bandit that demands a 100 gold from you...while he's wearing 10,000 gold worth of equipment.

Great design.

So you think it is better that you struggle in games like NWN/Gothic for 3.4s of the game ... and then *suddenly* the devs decide you are *God* and you walk through the rest of the game ?


if you go far enough in vanilla Oblivion, the Enemy NPCs *stop leveling* with you ... and only *some* of them continue to level with you for the first 30 or so levels, anyway.

 

[shortylickens]

Overall I agree with the OP.

The "Big Deal" is that it was a sequel in a list of very excellent games.
Then consoles got popular.

Bethesda shifted from being a PC game maker to a console game maker. Which means they sacrificed a LOT of gameplay and user interface features and made it really pretty. Oblivion is the resulting product when you dumb down a truly excellent game so console owners will play it.
Morrowind was the opposite. Insanely popular on the computer and despised on the Xbox. But Bethesda is a business and businesses exist to make money. There are more people buying console titles and they are willing to pay more for games. In retrospect it was a natural and understandable move for Bethesda Softworks.

I just dont like the results.

Having said all that, its still a pretty fun game with lots of mods. Once I downloaded some GUI enhancements and reconfigured the controls I was able to enjoy it more.

As for the OP's other issue: The lack of an epic or climatic feel, thats probably got a lot to do with the consoles influence on RPG's as well. Games like Final Fantasy have led us to expect a crapload of cutscenes to deliver big, epic stories with tons of hollywoodesqe scenes.
The problem with that is you're no longer playing the game, you're watching it.

Those of use who remember FF1 recall it had just enough dialog and story to keep the game moving and nothing more. Then FF2 (american SNES version) added a buttload of dialog and a few animated cutscenes. But it didnt take away too much from the game itself and you were always really close to more action.
FF3 was probably the next big change. That one had a crapload of cutscenes, most with some pretty advanced animation. And you could go a long time between fights.

7 was the complete overhaul. Full 3D graphics and full-motion-video sequences all over the damn place. Relatively little action except when you get to the third disc and build up a bunch of levels and Materia to deal with the final boss or the special bosses. And that was just a long ass grind to get a bunch of Master Materia.
8 was much worse and after FF9 you pretty much watch a full movie before the freaking game even starts.

The Elder Scrolls doesnt do that shit. They give you just enough story at the beginning to get your really excited and curious and then let you discover yourself and your new world at the pace you choose. Many console fans cant handle that kind of freedom. They need to be railroaded and hand carried through everything. Their idea of "freedom" is choosing which special abilities or item powers to unlock, usually through collecting some sort of special points. Grandia 2 and 3 are further examples of this.

As for Oblivion, I just set the difficulty slider fairly low and enjoy things as they are. I've found most of the fun is in exploring and interacting with things & people (in other words: Role-Playing), not fighting.
If you just wanna kill things go find Diablo or Titan Quest.

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
The lame levelling kills the game. Why would the designers think monsters levelling with you a good idea? It's retarded to walk around at level 35 with full daedric armor only to bump into Jimbo the Starving Peasant with an identical set of armor, walk a bit more down the road and bump into Steve the Lone Bandit wielding a magical daedric warhammer, and then walk across a bridge to be accosted by a bandit that demands a 100 gold from you...while he's wearing 10,000 gold worth of equipment.

Great design.

So you think it is better that you struggle in games like NWN/Gothic for 3.4s of the game ... and then *suddenly* the devs decide you are *God* and you walk through the rest of the game ?


if you go far enough in vanilla Oblivion, the Enemy NPCs *stop leveling* with you ... and only *some* of them continue to level with you for the first 30 or so levels, anyway.

Vanilla Oblivion is lame for more than just leveling, but leveling is a part. What if I, as a thief character, decide to level up my lockpicking, acrobatics, etc, then level up to find that I am at a disadvantage for leveling not battle-useful skills? It doesn't help that the game seems to have a bit more forced combat than games past as far as I remember.

 

[ProfJohn]

I felt the same way about part 3.

Very pretty to look at and walk around for a bit.
But then I start trying to figure out my goal in the game and got bored.

A big open world is nice, but give me something to do. Maybe part 4 fixed that problem, but I doubt I'll risk the time and money on finding out.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
The lame levelling kills the game. Why would the designers think monsters levelling with you a good idea? It's retarded to walk around at level 35 with full daedric armor only to bump into Jimbo the Starving Peasant with an identical set of armor, walk a bit more down the road and bump into Steve the Lone Bandit wielding a magical daedric warhammer, and then walk across a bridge to be accosted by a bandit that demands a 100 gold from you...while he's wearing 10,000 gold worth of equipment.

Great design.

So you think it is better that you struggle in games like NWN/Gothic for 3.4s of the game ... and then *suddenly* the devs decide you are *God* and you walk through the rest of the game ?


if you go far enough in vanilla Oblivion, the Enemy NPCs *stop leveling* with you ... and only *some* of them continue to level with you for the first 30 or so levels, anyway.

struggle through NWN? just be a monk... problem solved.

 

[ManBearPig]

how large of a file is OOO?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
The lame levelling kills the game. Why would the designers think monsters levelling with you a good idea? It's retarded to walk around at level 35 with full daedric armor only to bump into Jimbo the Starving Peasant with an identical set of armor, walk a bit more down the road and bump into Steve the Lone Bandit wielding a magical daedric warhammer, and then walk across a bridge to be accosted by a bandit that demands a 100 gold from you...while he's wearing 10,000 gold worth of equipment.

Great design.

So you think it is better that you struggle in games like NWN/Gothic for 3.4s of the game ... and then *suddenly* the devs decide you are *God* and you walk through the rest of the game ?


if you go far enough in vanilla Oblivion, the Enemy NPCs *stop leveling* with you ... and only *some* of them continue to level with you for the first 30 or so levels, anyway.

Vanilla Oblivion is lame for more than just leveling, but leveling is a part. What if I, as a thief character, decide to level up my lockpicking, acrobatics, etc, then level up to find that I am at a disadvantage for leveling not battle-useful skills? It doesn't help that the game seems to have a bit more forced combat than games past as far as I remember.

i never had that problem ... Max got to Level 92, the game's 'cap' - he got the message "You cannot improve upon perfection" - without cheats or using the console - he maxed out *everything*
-We had no disadvantages whatsoever .... even the Daedra Lords stopped leveling about 20 levels before he did - the *only* thing he couldn't do was "bathe" in Lava without continuously healing.

There is much more depth than you think ... you didn't delve into the game mechanics deeply nor go far enough

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i never had that problem ... Max got to Level 92, the game's 'cap' - he got the message "You cannot improve upon perfection" - without cheats or using the console - he maxed out *everything*
-We had no disadvantages whatsoever .... even the Daedra Lords stopped leveling about 20 levels before he did - the *only* thing he couldn't do was "bathe" in Lava without continuously healing.

There is much more depth than you think ... you didn't delve into the game mechanics deeply nor go far enough

No, I know exactly how deep the game is. The leveling, along with the hyped AI, has simply flawed basic principles. I am not alone in this thought; many of those who were TES fans of old found OB's leveling system horrendous. The mechanics made the world feel far from consistent or real.

Also, the dialog was horribly shallow. I understand this is due to the 'need' for every line being voice acted, which wasn't even done properly in OB, but I would rather have a larger amount of readable dialog than scant, badly executed speech.

I clocked enough hours into the game to fully understand almost every aspect of it, yet still be highly disappointed. All the positive changes in Oblivion from it's predecessors seem all flash and no depth, and while flashiness can be good, I found OB considerably lacking.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
Look, it's a Bethesda game. They always do the same thing - big, open worlds and horrifically broken gameplay mechanics. It's what they do.

Doesn't make the games bad though. They are usually "worth playing" just to experience the world alone.

If Bethesda ever figures out how to make some proper game play / combat for one of their games they can have my first born.

 

[Xavier434]

A lot of people who play Oblivion and are upset about these issues (minus the scaling leveling system) are expecting a lot of quick action which is not what the game is about. Oblivion is more of a relaxing game about exploring and interacting with the world. The combat is not supposed to be complicated although it very apparent that skill and quick reactions play a big part.

I would say that those who are serious RPG gamers who tend to like MMO games or stuff like Mass Effect and KOTOR will enjoy this game less than others even though I realize that is not always the case. Most importantly, Oblivion is about taking your time.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: apoppin
i never had that problem ... Max got to Level 92, the game's 'cap' - he got the message "You cannot improve upon perfection" - without cheats or using the console - he maxed out *everything*
-We had no disadvantages whatsoever .... even the Daedra Lords stopped leveling about 20 levels before he did - the *only* thing he couldn't do was "bathe" in Lava without continuously healing.

There is much more depth than you think ... you didn't delve into the game mechanics deeply nor go far enough

No, I know exactly how deep the game is. The leveling, along with the hyped AI, has simply flawed basic principles. I am not alone in this thought; many of those who were TES fans of old found OB's leveling system horrendous. The mechanics made the world feel far from consistent or real.

Also, the dialog was horribly shallow. I understand this is due to the 'need' for every line being voice acted, which wasn't even done properly in OB, but I would rather have a larger amount of readable dialog than scant, badly executed speech.

I clocked enough hours into the game to fully understand almost every aspect of it, yet still be highly disappointed. All the positive changes in Oblivion from it's predecessors seem all flash and no depth, and while flashiness can be good, I found OB considerably lacking.

i can't agree ... and the AI is *spectacular* . ... . unfortunately it had to be dumbed-down as the NPCs were too aggressive to each other

the dialog was *corrected* in Shivering Isles ... they spent too much money on the "big actors" and didn't have enough variety

i don't really care what "TES fans of old" think ...
- they can go back to replaying Morrowind again and again for all i care ...
:roll:

 

[Engraver]

Morrowind was a better game, but Oblivion has better graphics. Shortlickens covered the reasons for this pretty well.

My biggest gripe with Oblivion is the dumbed-down console quest system. I preferred Morrowind's where you actually had to find places/targets on your own, and you didn't actually NEED a quest marker to find them because of lack of directions or info.

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: Zenoth
You don't like the leveling, that means you'll need either Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul or Francesco's Leveled Creatures (those are modifications). And if you think there's not enough danger then you absolutely must have Martigen's Monster Mod (also a modification). Don't get me wrong, Oblivion is a great game when out-of-the-box, but the vanilla version does lack many things, however the Elder Scrolls series has ALWAYS directly depended on its community's support via modifications to maintain interest towards the game itself, or else it'd literally be quite a boring series, to be honest.

Well, there is something to be said for the polish. I have never had a problem with TES games. Save for Daggerfall, which could not be finished due to bugs. I think youre mostly right, but the product is top-notch (i guess i have been dealing with The Witcher too much lately).

 

[lozina]

The game had a lot of hype

Here I was expecting a RPG finally with some good AI (all their BS about Radiant AI) yet it's still the same old scripting crap. Combat is easily the most principle function of this game and it's model is still stuck in the 90's. It's basically Morrowind combat which was basiclaly no improvement from Daggerall plus some active shield blocking added by a forum user turned dev.

Big disappointment.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Billyzeke
Glad I'm not only one who thought it was snooze city.
And how do those guards see and hear everything you do through those thick ass stone walls?

I found the first five minutes of Final Fantasy 2 drew me in more than playing Oblivion for two hours. Open ended games are boring, uninspiring, and not very engaging.

Do you buy canned movies that tell a specific linear story for you to experience when you watch DVDs or do you stick blank DVD-Rs in your DVD player and stare at a blue screen using your imagination to do whatever you want enjoy your 'open ended' movie experience?

Do you buy novels with static text to enjoy a story being told by someone else and experience that story through a very specific prefabricated character who is different from yourself and has his/her own personality? Or do you leave the book store with a 600 page blank note pad and a pen and call it an "open ended non linear novel"

Games need some linearity to be engaging and present a story in order to immerse the player. Real life simulators are not engaging or exciting they are just as boring as real life.

I don't see what all the fuss is about "destructible environments" and "do whatever you want" and "open ended game play". To me it's absolutely boring and defeats the purpose of immersing yourself in a game world.

See the link in my sig and tell me if there is ANYTHING as inspiring as that in any game like Oblivion. That video gives me chills every time I watch it. No open ended non linear game with destructible environments and player controlled dialogue will ever achieve that due to the characters being mere avatars for the human players and not pre-defined linear people in their own plight.



<queue the most memorable prologue theme ever devised>

Thus, the Dark Knight Cecil was stripped of his command of the Red Wings. He and the Dragon Knight Cain were ordered to journey to Mist, a provincial village which lay beyond the mountains in a valley encased by a deep fog...

Airships... Flight long had been an unattainable dream of mankind. These vessels gave men the power to soar through the heavens. Soon, like all of mankind's gifts, it became a tool of greed.

The country of Baron became the world's strongest military power through their Airships, the Red Wings... But why would such a powerful country seek out the crystals? What power do they hold? Why does mankind corrupt every realization of its dreams? And why are the monsters increasing even in daylight?

The crystals shed their light silently...

 

[coloumb]

Sandbox is the reason why most people can't handle Oblivion.

With that said - you really need to install the mods to get better enjoyment from the game.

What those mods are I have no idea